2016 Minnesota Wild Offseason Discussion
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DANOZ28
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in case you missed it yesterday , nhl .com article on dubnyk. https://www.nhl.com/news/wilds-devan-dubnyk-ready-for-new-season/c-281708968?tid=277548856
Dee Oh Cee
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Also kinda cool...Dubnyk, Coyle, Zucker and Carly Zucker are the contestants in the Initials Game on the Power Trip this Friday.
- Aug 5, 2011
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Dan Rosen article - 5 Questions with Mikko Koivu.
Talks about Team Finland, Patrik Laine, Boudreau, and Staal.
Talks about Team Finland, Patrik Laine, Boudreau, and Staal.
DANOZ28
Registered User
espn insider article talks about BB's impact historically being worth 7.3 points per season , also coach john anderson was worth 3.9 pts for his ahl teams. interesting stat , i said i thought BB would be worth 6 points so i wasnt far off. drop the darn puck already.
Shockingly, that wouldn't have made a difference in the playoffs basically.
ANA drops 7 points puts them at 96 points(change from 1st to 3rd seed in the Pacific)
MIN adds 7 points to put them at 94 points(no change from 8th seed)
That was a pathetic year last year IMO for the Wild when you look at it in retrospect. They need at least 104 points to secure a Top3 position in the Division basically. Even this year I don't see that happening.
If the Wild are still a borderline playoff team around the TDL, I want our GM/ownership to recognize this and start moving assets for future assets that have a chance to be franchise players. Yeah, I know it's possible for a team to go on a run in the last part of the season and win a Cup, but we don't have a Kopitar, or Crosby/Malkin, and odds are we are going to do the same old 1st round bow out even if we do get in. Parise, Koivu, and Suter are NOt getting better and it appears we have no one of that caliber to replace them. Time to recognize that reality.
If we are looking mediocre at the TDL, Why not trade off two of our top 5 Dmen for draft ineligible players/ picks/prospects, rather than lose one for nothing?
Anyone who knows anything about me know that I love my Dmen, and especially Brodin, Scandella, and to a lesser extent, Dumba, but I also love to have at least one kick ass, no doubt, first line scorer, and one puck handling magician who can set him up. We have neither. It's near impossible to trade for the finished item unless there are "issues" with their character or contract, so we have to take a chance on trading for high end prospects who might develop into said players. It makes no sense to me to lose a Brodin or Scandella for nothing, if it appears that we are once again a MOR team next year.
I could understand an argument of being "all in" this year if we made a significant FA signing, but I think we will be lucky to get one year of a 50+pt. season from Staal, let alone of a 65-70pt. season, which is what we really need. We've got pluggers, and tryers, and two wayers...we need some magic!
These moves would recognize that the era of Parise, Koivu, Suter ( and the Pominville, Staal)is coming to a close, and that we have to move on in the next couple of years. Expecting Nino, Coyle, Zucker, Haula or Granlund to be anything more than good second liners is dreaming, IMO, and hanging all our hopes on Kunin, Ek, and Tuch is similarly foolish. Those prospect will probably be good " top niners", as the good Dr. Itor says, but there is no indication that they are going to be blue chip first liners.
The mantra that we have to " improve from within" that I hear from Fletcher worries me. It shows a lack of vision, and an adherence to a formula that so far has resulted in the " Pretty good" at the expense of the " excellent". There is still half a season or so to work with, but if it's the same old, same old come Feb Fletcher has to be looking at something new, and not a quick fix trade for an aging vet(Jones, Stoll, Moulson, Pominville, Stewart,etc.).
If we are looking mediocre at the TDL, Why not trade off two of our top 5 Dmen for draft ineligible players/ picks/prospects, rather than lose one for nothing?
Anyone who knows anything about me know that I love my Dmen, and especially Brodin, Scandella, and to a lesser extent, Dumba, but I also love to have at least one kick ass, no doubt, first line scorer, and one puck handling magician who can set him up. We have neither. It's near impossible to trade for the finished item unless there are "issues" with their character or contract, so we have to take a chance on trading for high end prospects who might develop into said players. It makes no sense to me to lose a Brodin or Scandella for nothing, if it appears that we are once again a MOR team next year.
I could understand an argument of being "all in" this year if we made a significant FA signing, but I think we will be lucky to get one year of a 50+pt. season from Staal, let alone of a 65-70pt. season, which is what we really need. We've got pluggers, and tryers, and two wayers...we need some magic!
These moves would recognize that the era of Parise, Koivu, Suter ( and the Pominville, Staal)is coming to a close, and that we have to move on in the next couple of years. Expecting Nino, Coyle, Zucker, Haula or Granlund to be anything more than good second liners is dreaming, IMO, and hanging all our hopes on Kunin, Ek, and Tuch is similarly foolish. Those prospect will probably be good " top niners", as the good Dr. Itor says, but there is no indication that they are going to be blue chip first liners.
The mantra that we have to " improve from within" that I hear from Fletcher worries me. It shows a lack of vision, and an adherence to a formula that so far has resulted in the " Pretty good" at the expense of the " excellent". There is still half a season or so to work with, but if it's the same old, same old come Feb Fletcher has to be looking at something new, and not a quick fix trade for an aging vet(Jones, Stoll, Moulson, Pominville, Stewart,etc.).
If you trade a defensemen now and then one gets taking in the expansion draft your weak on defense then.
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Can't think of many situations where management sold their way out of the playoff picture. I'd be satisfied with not making any knee-jerk additions and stop the spending of assets.
Also it's a catch-22. The pieces that you're talking about selling, in order to garner the return that you are wanting, are going to have to have seasons of production in which you aren't going to want them to be sold off.
Also it's a catch-22. The pieces that you're talking about selling, in order to garner the return that you are wanting, are going to have to have seasons of production in which you aren't going to want them to be sold off.
DANOZ28
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i've been in 57's camp for awhile, if your team is only good enough to tread water & sneak into the playoffs you need to be looking for ways to improve the future of the franchise not just add quick fix retreads for a hope & a prayer playoff run. it kills me we kept / didnt trade guys that could have brought 2nd picks because of a possible run then we lost players for nothing. (upto 4 missing 2nds) then silly trade deadline deals like 2-2nds for moulson? 2nd for stewart? the list goes on. we could have upto 10 more 2nd picks in our farm system , it just boils my blood to think about that.
My point is that you trade two Dmen, not one. And at the TDL. By then, you should have a read on how Dumba, Reilly, Folin, and Olofsson are doing, and whether or not my idea is a sound one.
Depends on what management's goal is. Is it to put butts in the seats by icing a team that is competitive, but never much more than a .500 team? Or is the goal to win a Cup? If it's the latter, I believe they have to take some risks, and rearrange some players. The expansion draft is a convenient incentive to do so.
Ask yourself if a team with Suter, Spurgeon, and Brodin back on D is so weak defensively. Many teams have worse on their top 3. Put that together with our strong two way players up front and I believe we can still be competitive in the short term, with the potential for a Cup winner later on.
Perhaps we can trade for draft exempt young Dman like Nurse who would benefit from some sheltering? Would a pairing of him and Spurgeon be so bad? Would EDM trade their 1st and Nurse for Dumba( just an example)? I'd sure take such a return over NOTHING.
Hey, if we are in first place, with Nino on pace for 40 goals, Bruce for 60 points, Parise is healthy and on pace for 35-40 g, and everything is humming along then we go status quo. My point is that that is unlikely to happen, and it's time we recognize it, and act decisively to fix things. Riding an aging Koivu, Parise, and Suter to the bitter end and relying on " improvement from within" is a recipe for disaster in years to come. As a fan, I'd happily put up with a few less wins now in order to be more competitive down the road.
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The wild aren't that good at picking guys in the second round plus the chances of a 2nd round pick playing in the NHL isn't that great. Prospects and Picks tend be. Very overvalued.
DANOZ28
Registered User
Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I've more or less come to terms with us a) losing a good defenseman in the expansion draft, and b) not purposefully placing ourselves at the top of the draft. Just a couple things that I think are pretty set in stone.
I agree with you. So be it, it's not like we can do anything about it except debate internally.
What players are you talking about? The guys the Wild have let walk in recent years wouldn't return a 2nd at the TDL.
DANOZ28
Registered User
talk 2 me goose! (top gun ) awhile back at the trade deadlines rumor there was interest in owen nolan; john madden ; cullen; harding (b4 injury) those were the main players i believe we could have traded for 2nds
Saga of the Elk
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- May 31, 2008
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I know this is speculation but if there was any way Fletch could have gained a second for the 2011 draft by dumping Madden wouldn't he have done so? Madden didn't even play a full season the next year, his final. Maybe with some of the others...but even though the recent drafts have had some promising players go in the 2nd...the Wild seem to find the Bulmers and Bussieres of the world.
FVM
This does not please me.
Thirded. Those two are safe assumptions and it's better if everyone gets comfortable with that reality already.
DANOZ28
Registered User
to be clear there was strong interest from canucks for madden which would have been a late 2nd high 50's pick. pens were very interested in cullen. & diff year pens i think were very interested in harding but espn said fletch's asking price was too high. i forget who showed interest in nolan aka cowboy. were not talking eklund rumors either.
BagHead
Registered User
I think if he could have gotten a 2nd for Nolan and Madden he should have, but I can't blame him for not trading Cullen, and especially not for Harding.
Cullen was our 2nd line center while we were battling for a playoff spot (which we won, and likely would not have without him, as we tied point-wise with Columbus). You should always take playoffs over a very late 2nd. Or any 2nd, for that matter.
Harding, before MS (not sure what you meant by pre-injury, Dano, as he was injured several times), was shaping up to be our franchise goalie. If you have a goalie that skilled, you don't trade him for a 2nd (unless you have two of them).
Cullen was our 2nd line center while we were battling for a playoff spot (which we won, and likely would not have without him, as we tied point-wise with Columbus). You should always take playoffs over a very late 2nd. Or any 2nd, for that matter.
Harding, before MS (not sure what you meant by pre-injury, Dano, as he was injured several times), was shaping up to be our franchise goalie. If you have a goalie that skilled, you don't trade him for a 2nd (unless you have two of them).
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Dr Jan Itor
Registered User
Nolan was a weird respect thing. He didn't have a NTC, but Fletcher let him decide if he wanted to be traded, and he didn't. I don't remember any rumors about a 2nd round pick being on the table though.
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