2016 Lineups Part II...

[Curufinwe]

Weise was signed to be a 25-30 point 3rd liner. If he ends up being a 15 point 4th liner then he's overpaid, I'll give him more than 7 games before I say that's his ceiling. I still think Raffl-Cousins-Weise could be a nice secondary scoring line. Raffl does the board work, Cousins makes plays, Weise finishes them off.

Flyers wanted to take off some defensive responsibilities from Giroux so he can focus more on offense and found it with Gordon. Check.

 

[kammy]

Weise was signed to be a 25-30 point 3rd liner. If he ends up being a 15 point 4th liner then he's overpaid, I'll give him more than 7 games before I say that's his ceiling. I still think Raffl-Cousins-Weise could be a nice secondary scoring line. Raffl does the board work, Cousins makes plays, Weise finishes them off.

Weise this year is last years Sam Gagner (who signed at 650k). Gagner plays 15 minutes on their 3rd line and just scored 2 goals against the Ducks a couple nights ago. I'm not saying I want Gagner on this team, I'm just comparing his production to Weise at a much cheaper cost.

There were several inexpensive UFA's we could have signed to 1 or 2 yr deals who are far better than both Weise and Gordon.

for example, at 1.75m, Antoin Vermette is a rock solid 3C and has taken 136 FO's with over 57% wins who would have been a huge improvement over Gordon, and could play 2C or even 1C in case of injury to Giroux or Coots.

which would you rather have?

Weise + Gordon = 3.3m
Gagner + Vermette = 2.4m

not to mention Weise is signed to a multi-yr deal

 

[FrozenSherbet]

Weise this year is last years Sam Gagner (who signed at 650k). Gagner plays 15 minutes on their 3rd line and just scored 2 goals against the Ducks a couple nights ago. I'm not saying I want Gagner on this team, I'm just comparing his production to Weise at a much cheaper cost.

There were a ton of cheaper UFA's we could have signed to 1 or 2 yr deals who are far better than both Weise and Gordon.

for example, at 1.75m, Antoin Vermette is a rock solid 3C and has taken 136 FO's with over 57% wins who would have been a huge improvement over Gordon, and could play 2C or even 1C in case of injury to Giroux or Coots.

which would you rather have?

Weise + Gordon = 3.3m
Gagner + Vermette = 2.4m

not to mention Weise is signed to a multi-yr deal

The problem is that there's more to a player than just his production. Gagner, unlike Weise, is a complete liability on the ice. Weise is more similar to Raffl in that even when he isn't scoring, at least he can work the corners and maintain his position defensively. Gagner is more likely to hurt his team than help them.

As for Vermette, he hasn't left the western conference for over half a decade. He was likely never even an option for the Flyers.

 

[kammy]

The problem is that there's more to a player than just his production. Gagner, unlike Weise, is a complete liability on the ice. Weise is more similar to Raffl in that even when he isn't scoring, at least he can work the corners and maintain his position defensively. Gagner is more likely to hurt his team than help them.

As for Vermette, he hasn't left the western conference for over half a decade. He was likely never even an option for the Flyers.

Fair enough, but if working the corners and maintaining defensive position is why we brought in Weise, there's plenty of other cheaper options for that type of role player. Hey, at least Gagner can score shootout goals =)

 

[BritainStix]

Why have we turned on Weise, He's actually been very solid for us. He also adds size to a very small forward core.

 

[whitstifier]

I'd like to get a 3C that Hakstol is confident playing 13+ minutes per night. Cousins isn't cutting it

 

[Rebels57]

Maybe let's give Weise more than his first 7 games with a new team?

Simple.

 

[Hurricane28]

Fair enough, but if working the corners and maintaining defensive position is why we brought in Weise, there's plenty of other cheaper options for that type of role player. Hey, at least Gagner can score shootout goals =)

Konecny can take over his role

 

[Magua]

Why have we turned on Weise, He's actually been very solid for us. He also adds size to a very small forward core.

No one has turned on Weise. He's been what most thought: hard-hitting, hard-working, good skater, OK hands, and in general, an average all-around big bodied bottom 6 winger. He hasn't been good and he hasn't been bad either, and the points will come (3 shots in 7 games is just not going to do it though...shoot like that and having 0 goals, with 1 assist, in 7 games isn't a surprise), but he still smacks of being an average, nothing special bottom 6 winger, which is what he looked like at the time of signing.

If he's going to be on the 3rd line, he has yet to prove he's better than Raffl or Read (which I don't think he is) and even Lyubimov has been better than Weise. He'll probably see time on both lines. Add in Lindblom to that 3rd line next year, and Weise has the makings of slightly overpaid 4th liner on a 4 year deal. It's nothing crippling, just *shoulder shrug*. We could have a very good 4th line though.

 

[Striiker]

Weise isn't scoring but he's also not hurting the team at all. You can see his skating will give him opportunities to score as the year goes on and at some point he'll hopefully start producing.

 

[Rebels57]

Dale Weise reminds me of Aaron Asham when he was here. It took him some time to find a role but he actually became a very valuable 3rd liner on the 2010 Cup team.

 

[Magua]

I'd like to get a 3C that Hakstol is confident playing 13+ minutes per night

His name is Bellemare. That's who Hakstol is "confident" playing and "trusts," even if he shouldn't

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Weise had his best game with Cousins & Schenn. If you put him with better players than Bellemare, Gordon, & VandeVelde I think you'll get more out of him.

In general the bottom six has been such as mess & a good amount of it has been due to injuries/suspensions & lineup decisions.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Fair enough, but if working the corners and maintaining defensive position is why we brought in Weise, there's plenty of other cheaper options for that type of role player. Hey, at least Gagner can score shootout goals =)

Gagner didn't do all that bad when he was giving a chance to play in the Flyers line up last season.
I didn't understand why Philadelphia didn't resign him to a cheap 1 year deal, also Gagner's still relatively a young player, I would have rather seen Gagner take the place of someone like VandeVelde even though Gagner's not a defensive forward like VandeVelde is.

Sam Gagner's with Columbus now, so that's a moot point, anyhow the offence really hasn't been a problem so far this season, its been the defense that's been a major issue, Philadelphia leads the league in goals against with 38 goals givin up by the Flyers defense.
Philly can't go on with this defense playing like this and expect to challenge for a spot in the playoffs Hextall is eventually going to have to make a move to get a big body on defense to keep the oppositions power forwards from skating right through the Flyers defense.

Giving up 5 and 6 goals a night for long stretches is unacceptable.
Hextall's first move should be to send down Andrew MacDonald to the AHL. I've also noticed the defense has been getting out muscled along the wall maybe Hextall could add a big body, maybe Hextall could give Vancouver's general manager a call about their 22 year old left defensemen Nikita Tryamkin.

Tryamkin refused assignment to Utica AHL, and hasn't played any games for Vancouver last I've heard.
Adding someone like Tryamkin would definitely help the defense from getting out muscled, and at 6'7'' 265lbs muscle on defense with Gudas wouldn't be a problem, once Del Zotto returns and is paired with Ghost maybe then the defense can start to iron out their problems. Tryamkin would only cost the Flyers maybe a 4rd or 5th round pick or a B or C level prospect like Petr Straka or even better just offer them VandeVelde and a draft pick and see if they bite, it's Jim Benning so anything is possible.

Could roll with..
LD Del Zotto RD Gostisbehere
LD Provorov RD Gudas
LD Tryamkin RD Manning

Extra: Streit, Schultz < trade both at trade deadline
MacDonald AHL

 

[deadhead]

When they signed Weise, they didn't know if Read had anything left, what they had with Luby (was he signed before or after), etc. If Read and Luby push him to the 4th line, well, worse things can happen than to be overpaying a player forced into a less valuable role by other players stepping up.

Gagner got a full shot last year, if they didn't bring him back, there's a reason.

 

[whitstifier]

His name is Bellemare. That's who Hakstol is "confident" playing and "trusts," even if he shouldn't

Hah, true. Though, if this is how Hakstol is going to use Cousins, I'd much prefer to have Laughton up over him. Laughton's a much better winger.

 

[Rebels57]

Gagner didn't do all that bad when he was giving a chance to play in the Flyers line up last season.
I didn't understand why Philadelphia didn't resign him to a cheap 1 year deal, also Gagner's still relatively a young player, I would have rather seen Gagner take the place of someone like VandeVelde even though Gagner's not a defensive forward like VandeVelde is.

Sam Gagner's with Columbus now, so that's a moot point, anyhow the offence really hasn't been a problem so far this season, its been the defense that's been a major issue, Philadelphia leads the league in goals against with 38 goals givin up by the Flyers defense.
Philly can't go on with this defense playing like this and expect to challenge for a spot in the playoffs Hextall is eventually going to have to make a move to get a big body on defense to keep the oppositions power forwards from skating right through the Flyers defense.

Giving up 5 and 6 goals a night for long stretches is unacceptable.
Hextall's first move should be to send down Andrew MacDonald to the AHL. I've also noticed the defense has been getting out muscled along the wall maybe Hextall could add a big body, maybe Hextall could give Vancouver's general manager a call about their 22 year old left defensemen Nikita Tryamkin.

Tryamkin refused assignment to Utica AHL, and hasn't played any games for Vancouver last I've heard.
Adding someone like Tryamkin would definitely help the defense from getting out muscled, and at 6'7'' 265lbs muscle on defense with Gudas wouldn't be a problem, once Del Zotto returns and is paired with Ghost maybe then the defense can start to iron out their problems. Tryamkin would only cost the Flyers maybe a 4rd or 5th round pick or a B or C level prospect like Petr Straka or even better just offer them VandeVelde and a draft pick and see if they bite, it's Jim Benning so anything is possible.

Could roll with..
LD Del Zotto RD Gostisbehere
LD Provorov RD Gudas
LD Tryamkin RD Manning

Extra: Streit, Schultz < trade both at trade deadline
MacDonald AHL

We could just promote our own homegrown 6'7 defensemen, Samuel Morin.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Tryamkin isn't NHL ready anyway. He still had things to prove in Russia but left anyway thinking he could legitimately play in the NHL this year.

 

[nuclear reactor]

Forget a third line center, this team needs a second line center.

 

[Magua]

Forget a third line center, this team needs a second line center.

Forget a second line center, this team needs a first line center.

 

[SportsPhan8]

Dale Weise reminds me of Aaron Asham when he was here. It took him some time to find a role but he actually became a very valuable 3rd liner on the 2010 Cup team.

Very good comparison, I agree.

Edit:

I totally forgot about him lol. Shows how many stars we had on that team.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

We could just promote our own homegrown 6'7 defensemen, Samuel Morin.

I would wanna see Morin called up rather then having to trade for a defensemen, but Hextall wants Morin to get another year in the AHL.
That's the reason why I suggested Tryamkin, but I haven't got to see much of Tryamkin's games, just going off what I've heard from the fans in Vancouver.

 

[Curufinwe]

Fair enough, but if working the corners and maintaining defensive position is why we brought in Weise, there's plenty of other cheaper options for that type of role player. Hey, at least Gagner can score shootout goals =)

Gagner isn't particularly good at shootouts. 2/6 last year, 31% for his career.

 

[Appleyard]

Gagner isn't particularly good at shootouts. 2/6 last year, 31% for his career.

Tbf to him that is ok. Pretty much average.

But yeh, nothing to write home about.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I would wanna see Morin called up rather then having to trade for a defensemen, but Hextall wants Morin to get another year in the AHL.
That's the reason why I suggested Tryamkin, but I haven't got to see much of Tryamkin's games, just going off what I've heard from the fans in Vancouver.

Morin's a more advanced prospect than Tryamkin right now. If Hextall thinks Morin needs more seasoning than he would definitely feel the same way about Tryamkin. Tryamkin played in the NHL this year but it wasn't off merit. That's been a good pattern under Benning there in Vancouver.