2016 Draft Thread | 6

[McHortton]

woah woah woah, lets not rank a player based on a short tournament. but excited to know Boeser has a pretty good teamate next year.

He has highlight videos from his season and he played in penticton so there are other times we've seen him

 

[biturbo19]

Although he's injured apparently, IMO his puck control has always left something to be desired, but I'm not sure many agree with that. I find that there's something kind of frantic about it, like he's thrashing around a bit.

You're not completely alone in that. I find there's a lot to Puljujarvi's game that is quite "frantic". On the one hand, he's got these tremendous tools and his ability to really push the pace with them is great.

But there's a composure that i find lacking in his game, beyond just the puckhandling...that i think could limit him from that "franchise winger" he's often billed as, to more of a "solid top-6 goal-scoring winger".

The more I've seen of Jost the more I like him.

The kids terrific. Full package.

Agreed. Jost continues to impress. Doing it at this level definitely helps ease some of my concerns about level of competition.

The biggest thing for me is really, to steal a "Jim Hughson-ism"...the way he constantly manages to "Smeagol" away from checkers to make plays. The skill was always pretty evident, but the way he's still making space for himself all over the ice against WJC U18 competition is very encouraging to me. Something that will be crucial for a player like him, at his size going forward.

At least add some constructive criticism or talking points, or discuss what you disagree with.

Quite often, re-draft lists, a few years down the line, don't match consensus at the draft.

Amen.

If people want to just tinker with and tweak Bob's list or whatever other consensus, have at it. If that's what you enjoy doing. But the reality is...Bob's list even as the indisputable Master of the "consensus list", typically looks way off base in a 5-years later "redraft" context. Consensus type lists like Bob's are terrific for predicting where players are likely to go. But the accuracy in ordering the down the line, actual best players is fairly hit or miss at best.

Things that look "outrageous" now may still look outrageous 6 years from now. Or...they may look "brilliant". And things that perfectly align with the consensus may also look completely "outrageous" down the line. In any case, i think it's dangerous and kind of non-constructive to get completely caught up in the order prospects are supposed to go...according to the almighty "Consensus".

 

[Verviticus]

has anyone told you that a lot of the time, "talking" like "this" makes your point indecipherable

 

[Bleach Clean]

Sure, their offensive IQ is elite, and perhaps their defensive IQ isn't elite, but their overall IQ is most certainly a "distinguishing factor". Norris trophy winners and nominees most certainly can be distinguished from the average defensemen based on their "overall hockey IQ". The fact that the strength of their hockey IQ lies in their offensive vision is irrelevant. I don't think your position is tenable.

My point is that overall elite IQ is not a requirement for a Norris level Dman. Keith is smart all over the ice. Lidstrom was smart all over the ice. Karlsson is not. Subban is not. Yet, the latter two are smart enough offensively so as to make up the shortfall in their deficiencies. If you disagree, make your case.

This is in reference to the thefeebster's post where he states that some Norris winners were also criticized for their decision making in junior.

 

[WTG]

Agreed. Jost continues to impress. Doing it at this level definitely helps ease some of my concerns about level of competition.

The biggest thing for me is really, to steal a "Jim Hughson-ism"...the way he constantly manages to "Smeagol" away from checkers to make plays. The skill was always pretty evident, but the way he's still making space for himself all over the ice against WJC U18 competition is very encouraging to me. Something that will be crucial for a player like him, at his size going forward.

Tyson Jost is listed @ 6'0" isn't he? Size doesn't look like an issue to me TBH.

I can totally see Jost and Boeser tearing it up next year.

A Schmaltz, Jost, Boeser line is gonna turn some heads in UND. Just one more reason to get excited about next season.

 

[biturbo19]

Sounds like another gaffe in last nights game, not helping my argument! /shakes fist

idk, maybe i'm just bad luck for Chychrun. But this is pretty much what i've seen most every time i've watched him. Tons of good, not even just for himself...but in actually directing traffic everywhere and running the show from the back end for others around him... And then one or two things that make no sense.

Nope, not at all. His mind can't react fast enough many times, his feet can't cover his gaps fast enough, so he has to rely on his reach+stick. That's his main defensive weapon. He looks like he can barely move on the big ice, clunky skater with ugly transitions. I don't see a guy on an upward trajectory, Stanley has not really gotten significantly better over the course of the season. He took a step from last season, yes, but he's been playing top minutes from October onwards. If you ask me if there is much of a difference from when i watched then to now, he's the same player with the same issues.

What do you project Stanley becoming? I see a replacement level player and a reiteration of the failed projects we continue to see; Oleksiak/Mayfield/Tinordi/McIlrath/Morin.

I completely agree...these types often get "overdrafted". And i'd wager there's a good chance Stanley is no different. The "1st round talk" already hints at that.

For me, he's something like a ~mid-30s guy in this draft. In a deeper year like last year's draft...he's probably more like a 40s-50s guy. I like him less than say, Carlo last year (who went @37th which seemed about right to me, pretty much bang on where i'd have taken him). Less than Dillon Heatherington (@50th in '13). But this year is kinda...ugh.

There is a reason teams continue to overreach on these "types" though. And it's not just pure blind "tape measure scouting". There's "upside" in the scarcity of these types of behemoths when they actually do pan out. Everyone wants an imposing tower on the blueline who can play the game. A Gudbranson, a Parayko...even a homegrown Emelin or a Methot.

Gudbranson may have been a bigtime "overdraft", but what team wouldn't want a guy like that on their blueline right now? If you can get in the ballpark of that with a 2nd rounder, that's gold. Even talking a Dylan McIlrath...with a 10th pick, that's one thing...but if you can get something like that with a 30 or 40-something pick...? Hardly the worst outcome.

If Stanley can continue to develop into a Top-5 NHL defenceman with that kind of imposing size and disruptive reach, that's easily a player worth a 2nd rounder.


Stanley is definitely huge project, in every sense of the word. These types are very "high risk", as you've laid out...the road is littered with examples that didn't work out. But it's like drafting miniature puck wizard forwards with those type of 2nd round picks. There's a long line of small skill forwards who never amounted to much of anything at the next level either. You're just hoping for that "boom", because just like small offensive forwards - when these guys actually "boom", you've got a really nice piece for your team, and a valuable, hard to acquire piece.


I mean, if you think Stanley's a hopeless case with a slow brain that can't be fixed...no way you draft him even in the 2nd. But i think there are strong signs that he's more than just a big neanderthal with rocks for a brain out there. The excellent use of his immense wingspan and long stick to disrupt plays all over the place chief among them for me. He isn't just clutching, grabbing, flailing his long stick all over the place...there's very deliberate and smart placement there. And the skating certainly isn't elegant...but it gets him there. He covers a lot of ice when he needs to. Some of it i think is just coordination with him, which can come in time, and continue to be refined.

 

[biturbo19]

Tyson Jost is listed @ 6'0" isn't he? Size doesn't look like an issue to me TBH.

I can totally see Jost and Boeser tearing it up next year.

A Schmaltz, Jost, Boeser line is gonna turn some heads in UND. Just one more reason to get excited about next season.

5'11"-6'0", doesn't look like a very big or heavy frame. Whatever the case...not a "big" player. On the smaller end of average. Where that ability to be slippery under pressure is huge for continuing to play that sort of game at the next level.

Which is what he's been showing, that is really impressive to me.

 

[Icebreakers]

Does a poor U18 for Chychrun and continued playoff success for Tkachuk swap their positions on this board.

 

[me2]

Very brave to post that. Well done, sir. Worst list I've ever seen, but commend you on at least posting something different.

You can't call it the worst list until time has had a chance to work.

If you saw this in 2007 you'd call the worst draft list EVER

P Kane
J Benn
PK Subban
R McDonagh
L Couture
K Shattenkirk
J Voracek
M Pacioretty
W Simmonds
K Alzner

 

[Gaunce4gm]

Just got back from the Victoria Royals vs Kelowna Rockets game 7 (heartbreaking loss for Victoria) but I will say this. Lucas Johansen has the poorest decision making I've seen in a while when it comes to a top 60 projected player for the draft. Bad pinches, over skating the puck constantly, and general lack of hustle. He's got some pretty passing when they have the puck in the offensive zone but was pretty bad in every other way. Wouldn't touch him till the 3rd round personally. (I was high on him before) Dubé is also puzzling, he's quite small yet he has no noticeable speed advantage, weak shot, and you really don't notice him unless you're looking for him. The only time I noticed him doing anything of note was when he threw an elbow for no reason miles away from the puck.

Anyways I know it's only one game, but I've seen them play 5 times this season (Kelowna) whenever they've been in town (Victoria) and I left feeling very underwhelmed by their draft eligibles each time.

 

[WTG]

Does a poor U18 for Chychrun and continued playoff success for Tkachuk swap their positions on this board.

It really doesn't mean much for my list

I just don't trust the numbers Tkachuk are putting up are representative of his overall play. He's playing with Mitch Marner who is a absolute stud and Dvorak an "A" prospect that is playing as a 20 year old in the OHL. Right now Tkachuk is playing on the line where he is the worst player. That to me is a big red flag.

There are other cases in this draft of players having that red flag. Is McLeod a product of Nylander? Is Bean a product of Sanheim?

In those cases it's pretty easy to recognize that McLeod might be a product of Nylander points wise. But it's his tools that people really gravitate towards. The guy is one of the fastest prospects I've seen. Plus his good defensive play give him that Larkin/Connor appeal to scouts. Where points aren't as available when drafting because his tools translate very well. Speed being a huge tool that translates.

Then in Bean's case all you have to look at is how much he relies on Sanheim to transition/get him the puck. In those cases it's actually the opposite. Bean usually is the one transitioning the puck up the ice. Plus it's usually Bean's creativity that creates goals. That's appealing to scouts also.

Tkachuk's case of him being incredibly talented in the slot is also important but that doesn't neccisarly translates to the NHL as top end creativity/passing/shooting does from the backend or speed from the center ice position. I'll comfortably say that Tkachuk is going to be a top 6 forward in the NHL. But does he have top end skill to create goals himself? Or is he always going to be reliant on other players to create things for him while he goes in the slot.

Boeser and Tkachuk suffer from the same problems. Boeser needs the right center to compliment his play. Sure, both of these prospects are terrific and both will probably/most likely play in a top 6 in the NHL and are very projectable. But both aren't going to be stars, they just don't have enough elite talents to carry a 1st line. They are both really solid support pieces.

 

[PM]

Just got back from the Victoria Royals vs Kelowna Rockets game 7 (heartbreaking loss for Victoria) but I will say this. Lucas Johansen has the poorest decision making I've seen in a while when it comes to a top 60 projected player for the draft. Bad pinches, over skating the puck constantly, and general lack of hustle. He's got some pretty passing when they have the puck in the offensive zone but was pretty bad in every other way. Wouldn't touch him till the 3rd round personally. (I was high on him before) Dubé is also puzzling, he's quite small yet he has no noticeable speed advantage, weak shot, and you really don't notice him unless you're looking for him. The only time I noticed him doing anything of note was when he threw an elbow for no reason miles away from the puck.

Anyways I know it's only one game, but I've seen them play 5 times this season (Kelowna) whenever they've been in town (Victoria) and I left feeling very underwhelmed by their draft eligibles each time.

I was trying to keep an eye out for Johansen all night and was very underwhelmed as well. Only time I've seen him live though. That loss hurt...

 

[VanJack]

I was trying to keep an eye out for Johansen all night and was very underwhelmed as well. Only time I've seen him live though. That loss hurt...

Is he this season's equivalent of Brandon Carlo?

 

[ginner classic]

Here is my draft list from a few days ago. I think after watching more of Jost he will move in front of McLoed.

1. Matthews
2. Laine
3. Pulj
4. Bean
5. Dubois
6. Nylander
7. McLoed
8. Jost
9. Chychrun
10. Tkachuk
11. Juolevi
12. Sergachev
13. Keller

But my draft list is rather unique.

I have Bean high, but not that high. He's moved up to #7 ahead of Juolevi and Sergachev. I don't get the facination with McLeod. I've seen enough guys like Todd Marchant that play that game that just don't produce. I'm also not overly stricken by Nylander.

There are some real projections in this draft. Lots of really interesting players. I see truly special things from players right up to 45. From the very top with Laine, Dubois, Bean, Sergachev, Brown, to Hart, Clague, and Hajek. Obviously that's a big range.

 

[thefeebster]

idk, maybe i'm just bad luck for Chychrun. But this is pretty much what i've seen most every time i've watched him. Tons of good, not even just for himself...but in actually directing traffic everywhere and running the show from the back end for others around him... And then one or two things that make no sense.

In Sarnia games, i don't think i've seen quite as high profile gaffes like this. I think the one that really bugged me was the line change one, such a basic task.

There's "upside" in the scarcity of these types of behemoths when they actually do pan out. Everyone wants an imposing tower on the blueline who can play the game. A Gudbranson, a Parayko...even a homegrown Emelin or a Methot.

Sure, ppl might want an imposing physical shut down defender, but i would argue that guys who move the puck well, skate well, while playing smart defensively are much more valuable, in terms of assets and to the team game. As much of a hard time as i give Juolevi, if he becomes a top 4 defender and Stanley becomes a top 4 defender, I would prefer Juolevi's style of game greatly over Stanley's.

Is he this season's equivalent of Brandon Carlo?

If you mean in terms of play and style, i would say Niemelainen reminds me of Carlo.

 

[WTG]

Here are the highlights to the Canada vs Finland game

 

[WTG]

I think I might do a blog next year where I sit down and watch a draft eligible prospect for 5-10 games and give a detailed description of his play with an addition of video and highlights to support my descriptions.

There simply isn't enough centralized information on draft eligible prospects. I think most of my blog will be film because I'd want people to make up their own mind on a player. But I'll throw in some descriptions of stuff that is just too long to film. Plus people can use that film as a resource to make their own content.

 

[Quark]

Here are the highlights to the Canada vs Finland game

Idk about you guys but even with his injuries and jetlag Puljujarvi looks awesome to me, he will definitely get way more assists then he will goals but that's okay, he's like a playmaking jagr, he uses his big frame and plump derriere to shield the puck, and he uses his speed, and he uses his vision and passing ability quite nicely. His game translates better into the NHL than Laines does, not saying I'd take one over the other but I don't think Laine is so far ahead of Puljujarvi as people think. Guys if we land either be hyped, we are gettin' a beauty.

 

[WTG]

Idk about you guys but even with his injuries and jetlag Puljujarvi looks awesome to me, he will definitely get way more assists then he will goals but that's okay, he's like a playmaking jagr, he uses his big frame and plump derriere to shield the puck, and he uses his speed, and he uses his vision and passing ability quite nicely. His game translates better into the NHL than Laines does, not saying I'd take one over the other but I don't think Laine is so far ahead of Puljujarvi as people think. Guys if we land either be hyped, we are gettin' a beauty.

Pulj can/will probably be converted to a center unless that team has good center depth IMO.

 

[Quark]

Pulj can/will probably be converted to a center unless that team has good center depth IMO.

What makes you say that? Just speculation or has he played center at times?

 

[WTG]

What makes you say that? Just speculation or has he played center at times?

IIRC he has played center a few times and his skill set is pretty well suited for center. His speed + the way he plays he doesn't really seem like a static winger. He can be all over the ice, plus with his vision and passing ability I can totally see him being a center.

I bet the team that drafts him will 100% explore him as a center.

 

[Quark]

IIRC he has played center a few times and his skill set is pretty well suited for center. His speed + the way he plays he doesn't really seem like a static winger. He can be all over the ice, plus with his vision and passing ability I can totally see him being a center.

I bet the team that drafts him will 100% explore him as a center.

Puljujarvi

Sedin

Horvat

Sutter

 

[Verviticus]

I think I might do a blog next year where I sit down and watch a draft eligible prospect for 5-10 games and give a detailed description of his play with an addition of video and highlights to support my descriptions.

There simply isn't enough centralized information on draft eligible prospects. I think most of my blog will be film because I'd want people to make up their own mind on a player. But I'll throw in some descriptions of stuff that is just too long to film. Plus people can use that film as a resource to make their own content.

this would be a really good path if you ever wanted to be a scout

 

[Hodgy]

My point is that overall elite IQ is not a requirement for a Norris level Dman. Keith is smart all over the ice. Lidstrom was smart all over the ice. Karlsson is not. Subban is not. Yet, the latter two are smart enough offensively so as to make up the shortfall in their deficiencies. If you disagree, make your case.

This is in reference to the thefeebster's post where he states that some Norris winners were also criticized for their decision making in junior.

You said that "overall hockey IQ" wasn't a distinguishing factor. That simply isn't true. I have already "made my case" and you have yet to refute it.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Wow. I thought the lottery was today. But alas, 10 more days.