2016 draft revisited

[Channelcat]

I realize that draft hindsight is 20/20 and makes for fun, albeit useless discussion....BUT

Is there any doubt that we would be a better team with Dubois, maybe even Tkachuk or McAvoy?

Click to read more...

 

[surixon]

I realize that draft hindsight is 20/20 and makes for fun, albeit useless discussion....BUT

Is there any doubt that we would be a better team with Dubois, maybe even Tkachuk or McAvoy?

Too much recency bias here. Laine didn't play in the playoffs but has been good there each year hes been in them for us.

His offense outside of one year has been better then both Dubois and Tkachuk.

Also I dont trust that Mauroce would actually transition Dubois to center given how he's handled every other one of our natural C prospects. Dubois was drafted as a winger and the Blue Jackets had the foresite to move him to the middle. I dont believe Maurice does that.

Macavoy would have given the Jets a very nice top pairing but at the time our right side was incredibly strong.

Edit: Tkachuk has actually been a no show in the playoffs. Can you imagine how much we would by piling on him for his whopping 5 points in 13 games.

Playoff results:
Laine 16 points in 24 games
Mathews 16 points in 23 games
Dubois 12 points in 19 games
Tkachuk 5 points in 13 games

Laine has been just fine when compared to the top the other top 3 forwards of his draft year.

 

[Neuf]

If it's cup or bust then it's debatable, but I doubt the WCF run happens with that switch.

 

[Jets4Life]

Drafting anyone but Laine for the 2nd Overall pick would have been foolish at the time. At the start of the season, the two top prospects were Puljujarvi and Matthews, with Laine a distant third. That changed as the season progressed, and by World Juniors, Laine seems to leapfrog over Puvi, and by the Draft, it seemed like some people were suggesting Laine may be the best pick. It was the right move to pick Laine, and he has definitely played better this year than 2018-19.

As for Logan Stanley, the pick was widely panned at the time. Stanley was considered a "work in progress" and did improve considerably from 2016-19, but has taken a big step back in the past year. In hindsight, we definitely should have picked someone else. Stanley, at this point, looks like a 3rd pairing journeyman at best.

Luke Green certainly showed potential, but has been habitually injured, and probably will not play much past 25. Cederholm and Stallard are never going to make it to the pros. Mikhail Berdin, at #157, like Hellebuyck, could be a gem in the rough, and will likely see some NHL action in the next year or two.

IN hindsight, should we have picked Tkachuk over Laine? Hard to say. I guess we will know in a couple of years down the road. Look at the bright side. We technically could have picked Puljujarvi.

 

[Al Camino]

Too much recency bias here. Laine didn't play in the playoffs but has been good there each year hes been in them for us.

His offense outside of one year has been better then both Dubois and Tkachuk.

Also I dont trust that Mauroce would actually transition Dubois to center given how he's handled every other one of our natural C prospects. Dubois was drafted as a winger and the Blue Jackets had the foresite to move him to the middle. I dont believe Maurice does that.

Macavoy would have given the Jets a very nice top pairing but at the time our right side was incredibly strong.

Edit: Tkachuk has actually been a no show in the playoffs. Can you imagine how much we would by piling on him for his whopping 5 points in 13 games.

Playoff results:
Laine 16 points in 24 games
Mathews 16 points in 23 games
Dubois 12 points in 19 games
Tkachuk 5 points in 13 games

Laine has been just fine when compared to the top the other top 3 forwards of his draft year.

Maurice has been a huge failure in regards to intetrating younger prospects into his lineup, outside of the high first rounders. Of course we don't know what goes on behind closed doors but there is plenty of evidence. Copp should be playing center, Roslovic, Niku, Appleton, and Harkins (this year's playoffs) Petan was decent but had to drag third and fourth line players around the ice. Chevy also traded for Dano twice and esential traded down in the draft to keep from exposing him in exansion only to have him rot away into nothing. And if I'm wrong on that last point please feel free to correct me. None of them have/had anything left to prove in the AHL yet can't seem to find any traction with this coach. If player can't play or there is an attitude issue they need to be moved while they have some worth. If it's a problem else where then maybe it's time to look elsewhere. Like how has Charlie Huddy managed to be here for 10 years?

 

[surixon]

Maurice has been a huge failure in regards to intetrating younger prospects into his lineup, outside of the high first rounders. Of course we don't know what goes on behind closed doors but there is plenty of evidence. Copp should be playing center, Roslovic, Niku, Appleton, and Harkins (this year's playoffs) Petan was decent but had to drag third and fourth line players around the ice. Chevy also traded for Dano twice and esential traded down in the draft to keep from exposing him in exansion only to have him rot away into nothing. And if I'm wrong on that last point please feel free to correct me. None of them have/had anything left to prove in the AHL yet can't seem to find any traction with this coach. If player can't play or there is an attitude issue they need to be moved while they have some worth. If it's a problem else where then maybe it's time to look elsewhere. Like how has Charlie Huddy managed to be here for 10 years?

I believe Maurice has an issue when it comes to fitting in players who don't perfectly fit into one of his predefined roles. If you are a highly skilled top 6 forward then you get a top 6 spot. If you are a checking line player or pure energy guy then there is a spot for you in wither the shut down line or the fourth. Where he doesnt seem to know what to do is with the guys in between like Roslovic, Petan, Niku etc. Instead of crafting say a more skilled bottem 6 line like the 2015 line he doubles down on what he wants and that is a pure top 6, shit down third line, hodge podge 4th line of energy guys who can pk.

 

[Al Camino]

I believe Maurice has an issue when it comes to fitting in players who don't perfectly fit into one of his predefined roles. If you are a highly skilled top 6 forward then you get a top 6 spot. If you are a checking line player or pure energy guy then there is a spot for you in wither the shut down line or the fourth. Where he doesnt seem to know what to do is with the guys in between like Roslovic, Petan, Niku etc. Instead of crafting say a more skilled bottem 6 line like the 2015 line he doubles down on what he wants and that is a pure top 6, shit down third line, hodge podge 4th line of energy guys who can pk.

Exactly. This top 6 bottom 6 is rediculous. If you have enough skill to go top 9 bottom 3 in thoery your third and fouth lines should be eating the other teams bottom half of the roster's lunch.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Drafting anyone but Laine for the 2nd Overall pick would have been foolish at the time. At the start of the season, the two top prospects were Puljujarvi and Matthews, with Laine a distant third. That changed as the season progressed, and by World Juniors, Laine seems to leapfrog over Puvi, and by the Draft, it seemed like some people were suggesting Laine may be the best pick. It was the right move to pick Laine, and he has definitely played better this year than 2018-19.

As for Logan Stanley, the pick was widely panned at the time. Stanley was considered a "work in progress" and did improve considerably from 2016-19, but has taken a big step back in the past year. In hindsight, we definitely should have picked someone else. Stanley, at this point, looks like a 3rd pairing journeyman at best.

Luke Green certainly showed potential, but has been habitually injured, and probably will not play much past 25. Cederholm and Stallard are never going to make it to the pros. Mikhail Berdin, at #157, like Hellebuyck, could be a gem in the rough, and will likely see some NHL action in the next year or two.

IN hindsight, should we have picked Tkachuk over Laine? Hard to say. I guess we will know in a couple of years down the road. Look at the bright side. We technically could have picked Puljujarvi.

Dubois is lighting it up.

 

[1stDan]

I realize that draft hindsight is 20/20 and makes for fun, albeit useless discussion....BUT

Is there any doubt that we would be a better team with Dubois, maybe even Tkachuk or McAvoy?

There is doubt yes.

Plenty.

 

[surixon]

Dubois is lighting it up.

This post season. Prior to this he has essentially been a 55 ish point C in the league and only put up 5 points in 10 playoff games last year. I love Dubois but take out the recency bias of last night and he hasn't set the league on fire yet as a player.

 

[voyageur]

At least we didn't take Puljaarvi, even the Finnish GM knew better. I just wonder how many assets we would have saved if we had drafted Dubois. We've been trying to find the perfect centre for Laine-Ehlers, but I don't think it would have been that hard to find a complement for Dubois-Ehlers. We'd have more talent and depth in the organization. But the hype was on Laine, and I think the Jets still felt like they needed a goal scorer. As neither Ehlers or Connor had proven a thing at the time Laine was drafted. And the organization must have saw 2c potential in Roslovic the way he was developed.

 

[Teemusalami204]

What a stupid thread. Once Laine stays with sheif and if he stays in Winnipeg we wouldn’t trade him for both of the players you mentioned in the OP.

I do think he will file for arb and force a trade though as his usage has salted the long term relationship in my view so after that this thread will be very valid

 

[PhilJets]

Dubois is lighting it up.

Like Laine Lighting it up or Laine normal?

 

[PhilJets]

Would Jets be better if they picked

Sean Couturier
Filip Forsberg
Thomas Chabot
Pierre Luc Dubois
Ryan Pullock
Dylan Larkin

?

Instead of who they actually picked?

Laine still the better player amongst all of them except for Matthews.
Laine also been solid in the playoff for all the rounds that he played.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Would Jets be better if they picked

Sean Couturier
Filip Forsberg
Thomas Chabot
Pierre Luc Dubois
Ryan Pullock
Dylan Larkin

?

Instead of who they actually picked?

Laine still the better player amongst all of them except for Matthews.
Laine also been solid in the playoff for all the rounds that he played.

A true # 1 d in Chabot or a good #1 c in Dylan Larkins are much more valuable than a very good to great winger. The only winger more valuable than Dylan Larkin is a prime Kane or Ovi both of them were a million times ahead of laine. Ovi has the same shot, is much more physical and has speed. Laine well he might improve his physicality will never be fast.
I’d also take Larkin over Austin Matthews because I think he has a better 2-way game.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Like Laine Lighting it up or Laine normal?

Laine would be much more valuable if he was a centre.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

2016 was a real interesting draft

I think we were slated to pick 6th that draft. From what I heard the Jets were trying to figure out if they would take Tkachuk or another player they liked a lot. At the time I thought it might Clayton Keller because I had heard the Jets wanted a center at that pick but looking back on it, it may have been PLD. It was believed that if the draft went down with Toronton/Edmonton/Vancouver picking 1,2,3 then it would have been Matthews/Laine/Juolevi going in that order. I think from what I have heard is the Jets may have been inclined to move up to 3 to take either PLD or Tkachuk and likely that it maybe PLD at three. So the draft may have ended up that way or not.

None of that happened because we won the 2nd pick and it was a no doubter at that time to take Laine

 

[Gabe Kupari]

Dubois would be a winger for us cuz no way Maurice puts him at Center so moot point here.

Top 3 .. Matthews. Laine. Dubois. Dont think that changes despite ppl hating on the 22 year old goal scoring all around player.

 

[snowkiddin]

Meh you put PLD or Tkachuk here with Maurice and they would struggle. Laine would tear it up elsewhere in the league.

 

[rubikscube]

Dubois would be a winger for us cuz no way Maurice puts him at Center so moot point here.

Top 3 .. Matthews. Laine. Dubois. Dont think that changes despite ppl hating on the 22 year old goal scoring all around player.

Dubois would have 100% been developed as a center. He wouldn't suddenly just be switched to a less valuable position for no reason.

Personally I would go: Matthews, Tkatchuk, then Laine and Dubois. But that's just me.

I think its fair to say that most people can agree it's something like
Tier 1:
Matthews
Tier 2:
Laine, Tkatchuk, Dubois.

 

[Daximus]

Dubois would have 100% been developed as a center. He wouldn't suddenly just be switched to a less valuable position for no reason.

Personally I would go: Matthews, Tkatchuk, then Laine and Dubois. But that's just me.

I think its fair to say that most people can agree it's something like
Tier 1:
Matthews
Tier 2:
Laine, Tkatchuk, Dubois.

Yeah early on Laine was a slam dunk #2. Now you could angle for Tkachuk or Dubois. Dubois would fit our team needs better. I still think Sergachev is going to rocket up the rankings in time. Had him as the best D on draft day and I think he's still climbing. McAvoy seems like he has reached his potential. Chychrun needs to stay healthy but I think he has hit his as well.

 

[PhilJets]

Laine would be much more valuable if he was a centre.

For Sure then people will complain that Jets can't afford him


Anyways thats ok to compare Dubois vs. Laine. I like these debate better than pitting our own guys together.
Each are unique on their own.
One think is for sure Laine will out point him when its all and said and done for this 2.
Probably a rocket with it.

 

[PhilJets]

Dubois would have 100% been developed as a center. He wouldn't suddenly just be switched to a less valuable position for no reason.

Personally I would go: Matthews, Tkatchuk, then Laine and Dubois. But that's just me.

I think its fair to say that most people can agree it's something like
Tier 1:
Matthews
Tier 2:
Laine, Tkatchuk, Dubois.

He probably sharing bottom 6 minutes with Copp and Lowry. Until the big injury to Little this year.

I still think
Laine is above the other 2, not much but above.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Meh you put PLD or Tkachuk here with Maurice and they would struggle. Laine would tear it up elsewhere in the league.

Based on what? Mo would love Tkachuk. He is a Mo type player. Fast and physical. That’s very much blame the coach the player is always perfect and if he doesn’t reach his potential it’s someone else’s fault.
Pld wouldn’t do well under Mo.
Laine’s lack of speed isn’t a Maurice problem.
We think of Laine as a young ovie but ovie has everything Laine had and speed.
Laine would do worse under Dallas and islanders.

 

[Daximus]

Based on what? Mo would love Tkachuk. He is a Mo type player. Fast and physical. That’s very much blame the coach the player is always perfect and if he doesn’t reach his potential it’s someone else’s fault.
Pld wouldn’t do well under Mo.
Laine’s lack of speed isn’t a Maurice problem.
We think of Laine as a young ovie but ovie has everything Laine had and speed.

Laine is a lot closer to 35 year old Ovi then he is to young Ovi and even 35 year old Ovi goes to the net more.