Post-Game Talk: 2016-2017 Postmortem - "It's on me" Edition

[PaulD]

Everyone knows this team has a mediocre, at best, offence and has needed help upfront for 5 years.

We still do not have a decent top 6 offensive centre. The only one that can fill that role has been jerked around for 5 years and is now stuck in no man's land.

Patch is a helluva goalscorer, but he is way too easy to shut down when you know his centre can't do ****. He is not a player that can carry his line mates, he is a sniper with wheels. He either needs to play with a centre who is good enough that opposing players need to focus on shutting down, thus creating space for Patch; or he needs to play on a team that can afford to have him on a lower line where he can exploit weaker opponents (see Kessel).

Plek is getting old and is basically a solid two-way 3rd line centre. Danault is very reliable defensively, but no team should have to count on any offence from him at this stage in his career.

Gallagher is Gallagher... always there when he needs to be. He's a much better player late in the season and in the playoffs than early in the season.

Lehkonen will have a long and productive career with the Habs. He's a keeper. Similar style and production as a Hornqvist or Eriksson.

Basically, this team needs at least one top C. There is no reason to expect Bergevin to land one. We are ****ed.

Been saying that years. Most agreed with you too. But there more kool aid drinkers than ever ..... telling us how wrong we are every season all season . Then come play off exit after play off exit.....they shut up again. Untill about July. Then the Habs are Stanley Cup favorites again.

 

[Tankster*]

They are not the only players from the organization that are still playing. Let's not forget DD and PK.

Karma can be a B**** sometimes...

They are NOT in this organization.

 

[PaulD]

All in all, MT is a good coach, not great, but good - not acknowledging so is just bad intentions. CJ is a great coach because he managed to not only make his team competitive and successful, but hoist the cup. That's even scarier.



Bullseye. Successful teams in the past decade have had a strong middle in the lineup. We relied on very good players but unfortunately in an unsuitable role for them. Adding that Galchenyuk is struggling to fill that vacant role in our roster means that we still have no solution. We are at the point were we failed to address the problem thru draft and the cost to fix our problem will be at a dire cost.

I don't dislike MB. I think he is a smart GM. But this team has one big problem unlike having a needle in your eye while stating that it is only an eyelash. Put any other GM in place, as long as this #1C problem isn't resolved, they will all fail.

Ha! Good post. However "put any GM in place" and I doubt he fails to get a number one center for 5 years. It is a GMs job to prioritize that and get it done. Not over night, no. Not in his first season even. But five years???

 

[mitchmagic]

Yeah our centre depth has been atrocious for years and is one of our main issues for never making it far. Even when we push a little further, we always hit a wall because of our lack of skill, size, and depth at centre.

Our 3rd and 4th lines are great. I have no problem with them, but they're the easiest lines to fill. At some point, we have to either think about sacrificing some of our promising future (if we want to win right now), or rebuild over a few years.

Just hanging in the middle hasn't worked.

 

[Poochie_D]

Things aren't as bad as 90 percent of the posters here claim. We have contender level goaltending and défense which is something not many teams can claim. Offense needs to be shaken up, no question. We need a top line center. Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and whatever else is needed just do it. We can make another run next year no question.

 

[Lshap]

I'm getting real tired of telling you ''I told ya so.''

We better see some goddamn fireworks starting with Bergevin getting the boot.

The "I told you so" crowd doesn't get props for continually expecting the worst. Pessimism is the safest, easiest stand you can take. It's the defence-mechanism when you're afraid to put your hope on the line. Habs should've been much better, but claiming you predicted anything of value -- beyond the painfully obvious "We need to score!!" -- is not true.

 

[PaulD]

The longer the series, the more obvious it became that the Rangers was the better team. After all, the matchup was not favorable. We stumbled vs a team that was ready. They never took the habs for granted and applied quite impecable defense. I'll watch the Rangers run with lots of interest. If they play a similar game vs every team they'll go far.

That being said, it sucks to know that despite all efforts your team won't win. Something is lacking and the organization will need to give their fans hope, because I'm quite deflated and desillusionised right now. I wouldn't tolerate this story on repeat next year.

I feel like the team as it is right now hit a deadend. Never felt like this as a fan the last 10 years. I guess it's because their are really no excuses to explain the elimination and keep the hope alive.

Somehow habs are always better when they're the underdogs. The underdogs storyline fits the habs very well with the usual emergence of a unsung hero, a stellar goalie performance, a lack of a system that makes them unpredictable or a rigid system that takes the favorite by surprise, the rivalry factor, the craze amplifying after every improbable win. The satisfaction or the impression that with a little tweaking that might be it next year. None of this this year. Worst playoffs in a long time, probably since the elimination that brought us the Gomez era in the summer.

I feel for the caps fans who enter the playoffs with same core for the last 10 years, always the favortites, and just can't seem to build from heart curshing experiences.

They're is no answer to why we lost, other than we don't have a good enough team to counter a trap game. Wish we could protect our leads better.

013, 105, 016, 017 you see or feel a difference here ? I dont.

014 maybe, as the excuse about losing Price to injury or they would have made the finals helped expectations for nest season. But then in 015....splat !

 

[Lshap]

Things aren't as bad as 90 percent of the posters here claim. We have contender level goaltending and défense which is something not many teams can claim. Offense needs to be shaken up, no question. We need a top line center. Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and whatever else is needed just do it. We can make another run next year no question.

This is true. The big question mark is Markov. If he goes or declines our D takes a major hit. Sergachev is not replacing him anytime soon, if ever.

But yes, the D can still be good enough. Which brings us back to the same old issue: Offence. Habs were near the top in shot attempts and generating chances, but they were awful in finishing. The system is fine, but we need skill up front.

 

[OldCraig71]

Earlier this season when we still had Therrien and DD and the team was falling there was much discussion about DD's ice time and people argued about his lack of significance or his importance. During the back and fourth there was a poster that said that he didn't really think that the lines were numbered and that the team was versatile enough to plug players in all throughout the line up. It turns out that he was right about us not having a 1st or a 4th line because we had guys in both situations that had no business being on either.

The only true first liner on this team was Radulov, incredible effort and skill and he could be counted on for everything including talent. After him, who else on this team is a first line player? I 'll help you, no one. Pacioretty and Galchenyuk and Danault are second and third liners at best because they are unable to think the game when adversity is present, that is what a first line players does ala Radulov. Chucky is good when he has 3 on 3 room because he does not have to think because he can't do both and when he has to he struggles, same for Pacioretty, give him a breakaway or a 2 on1 and he is money, send him out 5 on5 against the trap and you might as well hand him a shovel because he does not need a stick.

Gallagher and Lehkonen are at best second liners but not in a bad way, they work work work and are great at maintaining momentum and a clutch goal but are not 1st line talented.

Our D has some good not great players and make way too many mistakes after the first pairing. Weber and Markov did an admirable job and we could not expect more because they don't have it to give. Weber is good on the pp but do not expect anything extra at 5on5 because he cant do it. The other guys will surprise you from time to time but their warts often become exposed at the worst times, I would slot Petry as a 3-4 but he too makes some questionable decisions.

This has been my view of the team for the whole season and hence why I never considered this to be a contending team. We are a decent team that does not have enough top level talent. We need two first line players and a good puck mover(not Nate) from the back end.

As far as how we get to where we need to be, well under the current regime we will not. I expect MB (if he gets to stay) to trade for more 4-6 D help and trade for more veterans that are not great players but bring them here and hope that they elevate to something that they are not ala Byron and Shaw and Benn and Danault etc. We need a change at the top before changing the roster. Happy golfing boys.

 

[BLONG7]

This is true. The big question mark is Markov. If he goes or declines our D takes a major hit. Sergachev is not replacing him anytime soon, if ever.

But yes, the D can still be good enough. Which brings us back to the same old issue: Offence. Habs were near the top in shot attempts and generating chances, but they were awful in finishing. The system is fine, but we need skill up front.

Absolutely agree............SKILL up front...we have enough character, we need SKILL in the top 6 group.

Our centre position is the most needed skill spot, that has to be filled, enough with the not available stuff!!

 

[NotProkofievian]

The "I told you so" crowd doesn't get props for continually expecting the worst. Pessimism is the safest, easiest stand you can take. It's the defence-mechanism when you're afraid to put your hope on the line. Habs should've been much better, but claiming you predicted anything of value -- beyond the painfully obvious "We need to score!!" -- is not true.

I see what you're saying, but that's not what's happening here. Over the last 3 years I have been repeatedly and constantly correct. You have been repeatedly and constantly wrong. It's time to reevaluate your position: specifically, that Marc Bergevin has what it takes to take this team to the next level.

He doesn't. You were wrong all along.

 

[Forum93]

I can't stand listening to those USA chants. Don't those idiots know these are not the Olympics? Wonder what goes through the non- US players minds like Nash listening to that S***.

 

[PaulD]

The "I told you so" crowd doesn't get props for continually expecting the worst. Pessimism is the safest, easiest stand you can take. It's the defence-mechanism when you're afraid to put your hope on the line. Habs should've been much better, but claiming you predicted anything of value -- beyond the painfully obvious "We need to score!!" -- is not true.

There is "pessimism" and then there accurately describing a teams chances based on the strengths of opponents around the league.

Its a tough league. There are many better teams than the Montreal Canadiens. "I told ya so" does seem rather lame on something that was and still is so glaringly obvious.

Not surprising the cheer leaders are lashing out a bit though.

 

[PaulD]

I see what you're saying, but that's not what's happening here. Over the last 3 years I have been repeatedly and constantly correct. You have been repeatedly and constantly wrong. It's time to reevaluate your position: specifically, that Marc Bergevin has what it takes to take this team to the next level.

He doesn't. You were wrong all along.

Well said.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Pacioretty and Galchenyuk should go down to the Ice Caps as their Black Aces. Maybe seeing their big guys like Hudon, Terry, Scherbak, and De La Rose step up will help inspire them.

 

[Price is Wright]

I'm not gonna blame Galchenyuk until he gets 82 games in the top six as a centre.

Was drafted in 2012. Still hasn't happened.

 

[PaulD]

Things aren't as bad as 90 percent of the posters here claim. We have contender level goaltending and défense which is something not many teams can claim. Offense needs to be shaken up, no question. We need a top line center. Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and whatever else is needed just do it. We can make another run next year no question.

"another run" What do you mean ANOTHER run ?

They squeaked in 2 play off wins out of 6 games.

 

[Miller Time]

The "I told you so" crowd doesn't get props for continually expecting the worst. Pessimism is the safest, easiest stand you can take. It's the defence-mechanism when you're afraid to put your hope on the line. Habs should've been much better, but claiming you predicted anything of value -- beyond the painfully obvious "We need to score!!" -- is not true.

PK for Weber was a bad trade
MB has no idea how to build a contending roster, as evidenced by his inability to address key need areas
Pacioretty is not a leader, nor a player that competes hard when the intensity & physicality of the game rises


These weren't pessimism, they were observations grounded on considerable evidence, which this most recent playoff disappointment highlighted and reinforced.


While it is convenient to dismiss viewpoints that conflict with ones own by labelling them, a dose of humility to acknowledge when ones opinion gets disproven is a much more constructive option.


While the hyperbole and emotions can make all of us a little crazy sometimes, grounded criticism, just like grounded positive reflections are possible without it being all one or the other.

This playoff failure rest solely on MB's shoulders. Period.

The team lost for lack of offense & goal scoring, a weakness that was evident all year yet none of his in-season additions addressed (or had any hope of addressing) those needs.
The core is aging and our best offensive player is a UFA, perhaps the most coveted one in a weak class.
The organizational depth at C position is possibly league worst (especially if Galch is done here).

There are some bright spots...
danault looks like a great 3rd line C
Lekhonen is a gem of a player
Pleks showed he still has ability to contribute and play quality hockey when it matters
Gallagher further cemented his heart & soul leadership
Julien, while far from perfect, is a huge upgrade behind the bench


But overall.... if MB remains in place, this franchise is going nowhere but down (or as far as Price's knees will carry us).

 

[Markov4Captain]

Call me an idiot, but I am a strong believer in karma and I can't help but find it amusing that MB's roster built on so-called 'character' and 'grit' and hard-working players, is eliminated in round 1 while Subban and the Predators are off to round 2, having swept the Hawks. The way Subban was treated by this organisation was downright disrespectful, and humiliating for me to watch. Karma's a b*tc*

Anyhow back to this current roster:
-While Price wasn't his unbeatable self, blaming him is so short sighted and so illogical it makes me cringe. To win Game 1 he would had to have a shutout. Same for Game 4. Same for Game 6. THE TEAM HAD A GAA AT UNDER 2. Preventing goals was not the issue in this series

- Habs may have outshot the NYR a lot but I always felt like NY had more quality zone time

-There is a major problem if an 18 year old rookie is the best forward on your team during the playoffs

-Our defense is old, slow and immobile. Idk how we fix it. Markov should sign with a team with a legit SC chance. Really want to see him win one.

-Chucky hasnt helped himself but the way he's been treated by this franchise is downright laughable.

-Beaulieu should be traded, dealt, given away....idc. the dude is a joke.

-I have never felt so emotionally detached from the franchise since I started walking. Even when our top line was Cammy-Gomez-Gio I had more hope. I feel for the city and the fans who are dying to get behind a legit team. We've waited over 20 years.

 

[PaulD]

PK for Weber was a bad trade
MB has no idea how to build a contending roster, as evidenced by his inability to address key need areas
Pacioretty is not a leader, nor a player that competes hard when the intensity & physicality of the game rises


These weren't pessimism, they were observations grounded on considerable evidence, which this most recent playoff disappointment highlighted and reinforced.



While it is convenient to dismiss viewpoints that conflict with ones own by labelling them, a dose of humility to acknowledge when ones opinion gets disproven is a much more constructive option.


While the hyperbole and emotions can make all of us a little crazy sometimes, grounded criticism, just like grounded positive reflections are possible without it being all one or the other.

This playoff failure rest solely on MB's shoulders. Period.

The team lost for lack of offense & goal scoring, a weakness that was evident all year yet none of his in-season additions addressed (or had any hope of addressing) those needs.
The core is aging and our best offensive player is a UFA, perhaps the most coveted one in a weak class.
The organizational depth at C position is possibly league worst (especially if Galch is done here).

There are some bright spots...
danault looks like a great 3rd line C
Lekhonen is a gem of a player
Pleks showed he still has ability to contribute and play quality hockey when it matters
Gallagher further cemented his heart & soul leadership
Julien, while far from perfect, is a huge upgrade behind the bench


But overall.... if MB remains in place, this franchise is going nowhere but down (or as far as Price's knees will carry us).

A must read for every Habs fan.

Good job.

 

[Lshap]

I see what you're saying, but that's not what's happening here. Over the last 3 years I have been repeatedly and constantly correct. You have been repeatedly and constantly wrong. It's time to reevaluate your position: specifically, that Marc Bergevin has what it takes to take this team to the next level.

He doesn't. You were wrong all along.

You predicted what exactly -- that Bergevin "Doesn't have what it takes"?? Congratulations on the same cliche that could apply to about 28 GMs. Or was it the incisive prediction that we need scoring? Alert the press.

All you've done is wait for failure, and when failure inevitable happens in any form you claim to be 'right'.

Link me to any specific prediction you've made that's 'right'. Not another dull cliche. Not another mind-numbing insult of Bergevin, Therrien, Desharnais, Molson, etc. An actual on-point prediction that the rest of us didn't see coming. If not, you're blowing smoke.

 

[BLONG7]

Call me an idiot, but I am a strong believer in karma and I can't help but find it amusing that MB's roster built on so-called 'character' and 'grit' and hard-working players, is eliminated in round 1 while Subban and the Predators are off to round 2, having swept the Hawks. The way Subban was treated by this organisation was downright disrespectful, and humiliating for me to watch. Karma's a b*tc*

Anyhow back to this current roster:
-While Price wasn't his unbeatable self, blaming him is so short sighted and so illogical it makes me cringe. To win Game 1 he would had to have a shutout. Same for Game 4. Same for Game 6. THE TEAM HAD A GAA AT UNDER 2. Preventing goals was not the issue in this series

- Habs may have outshot the NYR a lot but I always felt like NY had more quality zone time

-There is a major problem if an 18 year old rookie is the best forward on your team during the playoffs

-Our defense is old, slow and immobile. Idk how we fix it. Markov should sign with a team with a legit SC chance. Really want to see him win one.

-Chucky hasnt helped himself but the way he's been treated by this franchise is downright laughable.

-Beaulieu should be traded, dealt, given away....idc. the dude is a joke.

-I have never felt so emotionally detached from the franchise since I started walking. Even when our top line was Cammy-Gomez-Gio I had more hope. I feel for the city and the fans who are dying to get behind a legit team. We've waited over 20 years.

Bergevin hides it fairly well, but there is an arrogance coming from him that most of us can see...just not sure if he realizes, he is in over his head.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Things aren't as bad as 90 percent of the posters here claim. We have contender level goaltending and défense which is something not many teams can claim. Offense needs to be shaken up, no question. We need a top line center. Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and whatever else is needed just do it. We can make another run next year no question.

In the same breath as you say we need to trade our 30 point Dman. Nate and chuckie will be let go, but not because its the right thing to do, but because the stupid media(thanks RDS) put it into the local populations head that one is a winger and the other is terrible, even while being our 3rd best dman while playing 5-6 D most of the year.

Did you like the D last night? I sure as hell didn't. Markov has one maybe 2 good seasons at best left and he IS our best dman, yep the 38 year old is our best dman. Weber was OK, thats it! We are talking 8 million Dman not Kronwall on detroit. Karlsson vs weber..bahahaha trade them Weber and patches for EK and we would be a better team.

Petry...meh 5.5 million for that with a NMC. LOL woowee. Emelin? Davidson, Nesterov...Seriously that is not a good D squad.
2 #2 Dmen, 2 #4 dmen and 3 #7 dmen.

This team is horrid. The barn that burningbin built.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You predicted what exactly -- that Bergevin "Doesn't have what it takes"?? Congratulations on the same cliche that could apply to about 28 GMs. Or was it the incisive prediction that we need scoring? Alert the press.

All you've done is wait for failure, and when failure inevitable happens in any form you claim to be 'right'.

Link me to any specific prediction you've made that's 'right'. Not another dull cliche. Not another mind-numbing insult of Bergevin, Therrien, Desharnais, Molson, etc. An actual on-point prediction that the rest of us didn't see coming. If not, you're blowing smoke.

Specific predictions? I predicted specifically that the Shaw for Eller trade would be utterly pointless and would result in a net asset loss for the team.

Your turn. You tell us what you were right about. Were you right when you told us that ''Bergevin's big move will be at the deadline'' 3 years in a row? Or is it just because you're wide eyed and hopeful that you don't have to answer for any of your claims and predictions?

 

[sampollock]

MB needs to the tough ?'s put to him tomorrow, asap