Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part XVII | Contract/FA charts, cap info in post #1 ‎

[AjaxTelamon]

Maybe, maybe not. It takes two parties to sign a deal. While it makes the most sense for PIT to sign a deal after the draft but before July 1st, but for Bonino, there's a huge risk for him to wait 6+ months before signing a contract. What happens if he hurts himself or has a career ending injury? The contract that he might have signed won't be there in June. So yeah I can see it happening either way, and neither would surprise me.

I'd have a hard time seeing LV taking a 29 year old Nick Bonino and his 4x4.5 or whatever contract. A lot of that value is predicated on chemistry with the HBK line, and his role in our specific lineup. They should be able to get younger, better tweener centers for less money. Now, I haven't looked at the available centers, and a cup winner has value, but still.

In the end, if he goes to FA, I'd expect him to sign elsewhere.

 

[Shady Machine]

Here's why Vegas won't be taking Pouliot:

Anaheim defensemen: Vatanen, Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Manson
Columbus defensemen: Johnson, Jones, Savard and Murray
Minnesota defensemen: Suter, Spurgeon, Brodin, Scandella and Dumba
Nashville defensemen: Josi, Subban, Ekholm and Ellis
Islanders defensemen: Boychuk, Leddy, de Hann, Hamonic and Hickey
Sharks defensemen: Burns (UFA), Vlasic, Martin, Braun and Dillon
Panthers defensemen: Yandle, Demers, Ekblad and Pysyk

That's why Pouliot isn't going to get drafted, each of those teams is in danger of losing one of those guys. Pouliot won't get picked because Vegas can get better defensemen than Pouliot from those other teams. I didn't include the Blue Jackets either, who may lose Savard or Jack Johnson, because I'm not sure if they'd lose a forward or a defensemen. Now, if Pouliot could be sent down to the AHL in 2017-2018, I would say he'd almost definitely get picked, but unless Pouliot explodes this year, he's not likely to be drafted. Realistically, I think the Penguins are going to be losing Hagelin or one of the young forwards.

Not sure why you listed Nashville as they are obviously going the 4 D route unless they make a trade to move Ellis or Ekholm out.

Why would the Pens lose Hagelin? If they don't have to worry about losing Pouliot (your premise) then they will obviously go 7 forwards and Hagelin will be the 5th guy protected.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not sure why you listed Nashville as they are obviously going the 4 D route unless they make a trade to move Ellis or Ekholm out.

That means they'll be losing either Jarnkrok, Smith or Wilson, which are all pretty significant losses. Losing Ellis or Ekholm may be easier for them to swallow than any of those 3, I'm not super familiar with Nashville's prospect depth.

Why would the Pens lose Hagelin? If they don't have to worry about losing Pouliot (your premise) then they will obviously go 7 forwards and Hagelin will be the 5th guy protected.

No, I said that the Pens won't lose Pouliot unless he breaks out. If he breaks out, he'll likely be protected, meaning that the Pens would have to leave Hagelin exposed. If he doesn't break out, he'll be passed over for either better defensemen or other young defensemen that can go to the AHL.

 

[Shady Machine]

That means they'll be losing either Jarnkrok, Smith or Wilson, which are all pretty significant losses. Losing Ellis or Ekholm may be easier for them to swallow than any of those 3, I'm not super familiar with Nashville's prospect depth.

I disagree. All 4 of their D are more important to Nashvilles success than Wilson, Smith, or Jarnkrok.

 

[Ogrezilla]

he hasn't? dp's last regular season games were much better than major stretches of both cole and lovejoy's play that season, and schultz was only showing up at that point

DP has maybe 5 or 6 games where he looked better than an average day from Cole or Lovejoy down the stretch, and he's never looked as good as those two did these playoffs. The rest of DPs games were varying degrees of bad. Cole and LJ only ever looked that bad playing in a top 4 role.

None of this is me writing the kid off btw. Despite everything working out with the Cup, I'm still not sure I like that we sat him for Schultz like we did. But I'm just saying its really not the same situation as Despres, who played like one of our 6 best d-men every chance he got for 2 or 3 seasons before we traded him.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I disagree. All 4 of their D are more important to Nashvilles success than Wilson, Smith, or Jarnkrok.

yeah, I agree. Don't think it's really all that close of a call either.

 

[Clatartar]

Don't need to worry about Pooh or Hagelin cuz we're losing Murray.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Don't need to worry about Pooh or Hagelin cuz we're losing Murray.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Yeah, Nashville would be taking 4D without question. They only need to choose who their last forward would be. I'd say Jarnkrok because of the contract. Doubt Wilson could keep up his playoff run.

 

[NMK11]

Gah, this expansion draft makes me unreasonably upset because I love the make up of this team so much.

I want the Pens to just sign some high profile player next offseason with no intention to keep them so I dont get attached and LV can pick them.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Gah, this expansion draft makes me unreasonably upset because I love the make up of this team so much.

I want the Pens to just sign some high profile player next offseason with no intention to keep them so I dont get attached and LV can pick them.

the expansion draft is before free agency starts up though, isn't it? Its June 21, and free agency doesn't open until July 1 right?

 

[NMK11]

the expansion draft is before free agency starts up though, isn't it? Its June 21, and free agency doesn't open until July 1 right?

Gaaaaaaah

 

[Riptide]

I'd have a hard time seeing LV taking a 29 year old Nick Bonino and his 4x4.5 or whatever contract. A lot of that value is predicated on chemistry with the HBK line, and his role in our specific lineup. They should be able to get younger, better tweener centers for less money. Now, I haven't looked at the available centers, and a cup winner has value, but still.

In the end, if he goes to FA, I'd expect him to sign elsewhere.

I dunno - they're going to have a hard time finding quality forwards, and an even harder time finding quality centers.

 

[Riptide]

the expansion draft is before free agency starts up though, isn't it? Its June 21, and free agency doesn't open until July 1 right?

Correct. Teams submit their protected lists June 17th and LV picks on June 20th. June 23rd is the regular draft and FA is on July 1st.

 

[Riptide]

DP has maybe 5 or 6 games where he looked better than an average day from Cole or Lovejoy down the stretch, and he's never looked as good as those two did these playoffs. The rest of DPs games were varying degrees of bad. Cole and LJ only ever looked that bad playing in a top 4 role.

None of this is me writing the kid off btw. Despite everything working out with the Cup, I'm still not sure I like that we sat him for Schultz like we did. But I'm just saying its really not the same situation as Despres, who played like one of our 6 best d-men every chance he got for 2 or 3 seasons before we traded him.

And yet statistically, DP was one of our most effective D (yes in limited minutes against limited competition).

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think you need to question the validity of any statistics that show Derrick Pouliot as one of our most effective D. I don't think anyone can actually believe that, including Derrick Pouliot himself.

 

[Son Goku]

I dunno - they're going to have a hard time finding quality forwards, and an even harder time finding quality centers.

I imagine they'll draft high their first five seasons.

 

[Riptide]

I imagine they'll draft high their first five seasons.

They're guaranteed top 4-5 picks for their first 4 seasons (I think it's 4 seasons). But as we saw with Edmonton, just getting high picks isn't enough. You need to make the right picks and you need those picks in the right drafts - getting to choose Yak or Murray doesn't do much when you need a #1C - and while RNH is a pretty good center, he hasn't really developed into that true #1C everyone expected and covets.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think you need to question the validity of any statistics that show Derrick Pouliot as one of our most effective D. I don't think anyone can actually believe that, including Derrick Pouliot himself.

Pouliot's numbers are tempered by his usage, naturally, but he was a LOT better than he's generally given credit for around here after his last call-up.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Pouliot's numbers are tempered by his usage, naturally, but he was a LOT better than he's generally given credit for around here after his last call-up.

He was solid in his last handful of games, I agree. I'm not trying to trash the kid. If he plays even as well as Schultz, I'd have him in the line-up. But up to this point, he has not played like one of our 6 best d-men for any length of time. I think he was just finally starting to when he got sat, and then Schultz played pretty much just as well. I didn't like the move to sit him then, and the only reason I'm not upset about it is because we ended up winning. Sadly, when he got the chance to go back in, DP played pretty badly. Its understandable considering he hadn't played in a while, but its still what happened. But as of right now, I don't think DP has shown that he's a better NHL player than either Cole or Schultz. I think he can, and I hope he does. But it hasn't happened yet.

Anyway, the only reason I was even talking about DP like that was because someone said the argument for sitting him is the same as it was for Despres, and I completely disagree. Pouliot looked like he might be ready to take a step forward and earn a spot. Despres was straight up better at playing NHL hockey than guys playing ahead of him. That simply isn't the case with DP. Not yet at least.

 

[Shady Machine]

He was solid in his last handful of games, I agree. I'm not trying to trash the kid. If he plays even as well as Schultz, I'd have him in the line-up. But up to this point, he has not played like one of our 6 best d-men for any length of time. I think he was just finally starting to when he got sat, and then Schultz played pretty much just as well. I didn't like the move to sit him then, and the only reason I'm not upset about it is because we ended up winning. Sadly, when he got the chance to go back in, DP played pretty badly. Its understandable considering he hadn't played in a while, but its still what happened. But as of right now, I don't think DP has shown that he's a better NHL player than either Cole or Schultz. I think he can, and I hope he does. But it hasn't happened yet.

Anyway, the only reason I was even talking about DP like that was because someone said the argument for sitting him is the same as it was for Despres, and I completely disagree. Pouliot looked like he might be ready to take a step forward and earn a spot. Despres was straight up better at playing NHL hockey than guys playing ahead of him. That simply isn't the case with DP. Not yet at least.

Well said. Going into this season, Pouliot should have plenty of opportunity to prove he deserves to be a regular in this lineup. He isn't being blocked by a Mark Eaton or Rob Scuderi. Cole struggled at points last year and is possible a tad overpaid, but he is a legitimately solid bottom pairing dman (same with Schultz who is now paid fairly).

 

[Riptide]

Bergeron on Crosby and how he's "hard to play with".

True, and yet, Crosby doesn’t always mesh with linemates.

Bergeron explained that it’s important to let Crosby be the alpha figure on the ice. In other words, don’t try to do too much when you’re out there with him.

“You really have to let Sid do this thing out there,†Bergeron said. “That’s the thing. Don’t change what he’s trying to do. Don’t get in his way. He’s incredibly fast, so don’t get in his way. He’s great on the boards, so it’s important to go to work with him, because you know he’s going to win most of the puck battles down there. You go to work with him, good things will happen.â€

Letting Crosby carry the puck is always wise, Bergeron continued.

“He’s so great at possessing the puck,†Bergeron said. “The great ones like him, they can always hold onto the puck for that extra second. So, with that extra second, it’s your job to find a lane and get open. If you do that, he’s so good at finding you. He’s going to find you every single time. It’s about getting open when you’re playing with him. And it’s also about playing the game you always play. You don’t want to change your style. Let him get comfortble with you and your style, and he’ll make you better. That’s how great he is.â€

 

[NMK11]

Bergeron on Crosby and how he's "hard to play with".

Its a concept thats almost mind boggling. A player is "too good" for people to play with. It really tells you how much of a generational player he is.

 

[ColePens]

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