Salary Cap: 2016-17 roster-building part III | Contract chart, cap info in post #1

[Ogrezilla]

True, but the prospect of Murray taking over his job here coupled with Matthews (or Laine) and Babcock might change that. Never know.

It's all crazy hypotheticals anyway. I'd still be floored if this team was proactive enough and broke away from their family-first ideology to trade MAF.

You'd think that, but adding McDavid was enough to get Sekera to go to Edmonton. I wouldn't count on Fleury waiving to go to Toronto, but crazier things have happened.

I still doubt Fleury gets traded this summer unless we get a really good offer for him. I don't really see any downside in running with a Fleury-Murray tandem for next year instead of just throwing Murray into the flames as a full time starter.

I wasn't even thinking of how bad they are, just how miserable their media is. I'm sure kessel has spread the word on that

 

[mpp9]

I wouldn't wish Toronto on Fleury. I like him too much.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I wouldn't wish Toronto on Fleury. I like him too much.

Yeah, but I'd wish JVR on Sid or Geno.

Sorry MAF. Decline to talk to the media if you have to, but this is a business. Best of luck.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I actually love the idea of Sid with Hags/Hornqvist, but I think Hags is as important to Kessel's resurgence over the last few months as anything. Those two have to stay together imo.

I like them together for sure, but I still say kessels resurgence is almost entirely because of kessel. Hags is as important to kessel as a good linemate is to anybod, and he's a good fit with kessel, but he'd be a good fit with sid too.

 

[mpp9]

I like that move if they're changing the lines this season, but Hagelin doesn't solve the issue of no one being able to get Sid the puck with time and space. Bonino does that for Kessel. Kunitz used to be able to do that for Sid. Have to find that guy this summer or hope a guy like Wilson fast tracks his development.

 

[Riptide]

Whether Bonino can keep the pace or not, it really would be in the Pens interest to focus on keeping HBK and creating true scoring lines for Sid and Geno. JVR would do it. But, Boedkker-Geno-Sprong . . . not sure why people keep thinking these are the best types of combos for Geno. Even before a scorer, Malkin needs a guy who plays the game in a way (always an eye towards defensive positioning, good along the boards, drives the net, can work the give and go's) that allows Malkin to get to his game and to feel comfortable taking some chances (a guy who's game invites trust so Malkin stops overthinking the game).

Wouldn't worry about the defense. JR has some flexibility this summer. Two wingers. Legitimately complementary wingers for Sid-Horny AND Geno SPECIFICALLY.

Imagine this team with three legit first lines. JR could do it . . .

This is where I like someone like McGinn. I just don't think I can stomach the 3.5m+ he'll likely get this summer.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

This is where I like someone like McGinn. I just don't think I can stomach the 3.5m+ he'll likely get this summer.

If Buffalo and Foligno decide to part ways (which I doubt), he would fit the bill. Capable of killing penalties as well. Hell, he can even take faceoffs. He fits that Ryan Malone build.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Foligno is way too slow for me to seriously want him. His career high is 23 points, how would he be a good fit along Malkin?

 

[KIRK]

I'm with Warm Cookies on this one. Maybe HBK isn't sustainable next year, but saying it's only working because Bonino and Kessel try harder in the playoffs is ridiculous.

Also, why don't we see what the off season acquisitions, signings, and training camp look like before breaking up HBK.

JR went on record saying he wanted an "anchor" at LW. I still think that's a priority. Let's say he gets a top 6 LW for Geno or Sid and Sprong makes the club and looks good with Geno. Let's also assume Kunitz goes away (pretty please!)

Now you have:

Wilson/Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
new LW-Malkin-Sprong
Hagelin-Bones-Kessel
Kuhn-Cullen-Rust
Fehr

I don't see what's so unreasonable about that set up. You bring in 1 top 6 LW and you leave two other spots open for internal competition. Sid's LW spot can be battled out by Wilson, Sheary, Guentzel, Simon and Geno's RW can be battled by Sprong, Bennett (if still around), Fehr, etc. Or you could bring in a top 6 RW and then you other options for Geno's LW that are internal.

The point is, we have both internal options AND an off season of potential acquisitions to fill out Geno's wings with enough quality that we may be better off leaving HBK together. As for Geno being mad, the guy wants to win. If we win a Cup with this setup and he still gets top PP time and prime offensive zone stars, both of which are true right now, I think he will be fine.

2009 says hello.

Just because something is a formula once doesn't mean it's the formula most likely to yield a cup in any given year.

And, again, I would NOT break up HBK. It's a first line.

What I would do is focus on making Sid's and Geno's lines legit first lines also, something they are not in this/your formula.

JR has the flexibility to make it happen, especially if he move Fleury.

IMO, you add a winger who's a legit complement for Sid and Horny. You add a winger who's a legit Malone style complement for Geno. Then you open the rest to competition.

 

[KIRK]

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the idea of a Flower-JVR trade. I don't see it happening, though, unless they sign Stammer and shift out of re-building mode.

And if they are, can they really afford to 'lose' JVR.

IMO, the deal for Fleury and JVR is Fleury + Kunitz (last deal year) for Bernier (last deal year) + JVR.

Foligno is way too slow for me to seriously want him. His career high is 23 points, how would he be a good fit along Malkin?

Yeah, I don't quite see it either.

As I said, the thing to keep in mind is if you can move Fleury and Kunitz, then JR has a lot of cap flexibility to take care of Sid and Geno.

 

[Empoleon8771]

RFA compensation was set today according to Friedman:

Less than $1,239,226 Nothing
Over $1,239,226 to $1,877,615 Third-round pick
Over $1,877,615 to $3,755,233 Second-round pick
Over $3,755,233 to $5,632,847 First and third-round picks
Over $5,632,847 to $7,510,464 First, second and third-round picks
Over $7,510,464 to $9,388,080 Two firsts, a second and third-round picks
Over $9,388,080 Four first-round picks

I'm saying this because Trocheck and Miller are both RFAs this summer. I remember last summer that there were rumors that the Pens wanted to bring in a Pittsburgh native for whatever reason. Both of those guys are from Pittsburgh and both should fall below $5.6 million on their next deals (so max compensation is a 1st and 3rd).

While the Panthers do have the cap space to match Trocheck at $5 million, would they want to do that? They have numerous UFAs and RFAs that will be getting big raises in the next year (Ekblad, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Trocheck, Huberdeau and Smith are RFAs and Kulikov, Hudler and Purcell are UFAs by 2017) and from what I've read, the Panthers have never seemed that committed to Trocheck. With guys like Crouse, Grimaldi, Brickley and Hawryluk in the system (especially Hawryluk, he had the highest PPG in the WHL this year and is a center and RWer), I don't know that it would be smart to just dish out $5-$6 million on Trocheck along with Huberdeau, Ekblad, Smith, Barkov, Kulikov, Luongo, Bjugstad, Gudbranson and Bolland long term. Let's say that every other UFA and RFA gets $5 million long term on their next deal (probably not realistic, they'll most likely get higher), that core with Trocheck costs roughly $50 million and it only fills up 6 forwards, 3 defenseman and a goalie. Considering they don't have the funds available to spend to the cap, that's a massive portion of salary committed to half the team.

If you want to aim a little lower, you could probably offersheet JT Miller at like $3.5 million and pull him from the Rangers. I don't know if they have the cap space to pay him that much.

 

[Shady Machine]

2009 says hello.

Just because something is a formula once doesn't mean it's the formula most likely to yield a cup in any given year.

And, again, I would NOT break up HBK. It's a first line.

What I would do is focus on making Sid's and Geno's lines legit first lines also, something they are not in this/your formula.

JR has the flexibility to make it happen, especially if he move Fleury.

IMO, you add a winger who's a legit complement for Sid and Horny. You add a winger who's a legit Malone style complement for Geno. Then you open the rest to competition.

I think we agree. I'd love to get 2 wingers, I just don't know how likely that is. I'd be fine settling for one. The other spot can be internal competition.

 

[Shady Machine]

RFA compensation was set today according to Friedman:



I'm saying this because Trocheck and Miller are both RFAs this summer. I remember last summer that there were rumors that the Pens wanted to bring in a Pittsburgh native for whatever reason. Both of those guys are from Pittsburgh and both should fall below $5.6 million on their next deals (so max compensation is a 1st and 3rd).

While the Panthers do have the cap space to match Trocheck at $5 million, would they want to do that? They have numerous UFAs and RFAs that will be getting big raises in the next year (Ekblad, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Trocheck, Huberdeau and Smith are RFAs and Kulikov, Hudler and Purcell are UFAs by 2017) and from what I've read, the Panthers have never seemed that committed to Trocheck. With guys like Crouse, Grimaldi, Brickley and Hawryluk in the system (especially Hawryluk, he had the highest PPG in the WHL this year and is a center and RWer), I don't know that it would be smart to just dish out $5-$6 million on Trocheck along with Huberdeau, Ekblad, Smith, Barkov, Kulikov, Luongo, Bjugstad, Gudbranson and Bolland long term. Let's say that every other UFA and RFA gets $5 million long term on their next deal (probably not realistic, they'll most likely get higher), that core with Trocheck costs roughly $50 million and it only fills up 6 forwards, 3 defenseman and a goalie. Considering they don't have the funds available to spend to the cap, that's a massive portion of salary committed to half the team.

Yeah Trocheck is absolutely a guy to go after, but I highly doubt we would offer sheet him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah Trocheck is absolutely a guy to go after, but I highly doubt we would offer sheet him.

JR is the same guy that offersheeted Fedorov back in the 90s. It's probably more likely that we'd trade for his rights, but I wouldn't put it past JR to offersheet him.

Looking at it roughly, there are a lot of good RFAs this summer. Kucherov is likely going to be getting close to the Tarasenko contract, so that opens up Killorn for an offersheet (especially if they keep Stamkos). Trocheck could likely be had for reasons I listed above. I don't think the Rangers would be able to match JT Miller nor the Wild would be able to match Zucker at $3 million. If he's not traded, Shaw will almost definitely get an offer sheet (I think he gets traded). If JR wanted to get really bold, I'd want him to go after Hertl from San Jose. They probably could afford to match for next year, but beyond that, it may present issues with Thornton, Marleau, Burns and Wingels all needing new contracts by next year.

 

[KIRK]

I think we agree. I'd love to get 2 wingers, I just don't know how likely that is. I'd be fine settling for one. The other spot can be internal competition.

If you move Fleury and Kunitz and don't blow the bank on defense (Schultz or whoever), then it's most assuredly doable. As I've said, you look not just to free agency but to poach the cap strapped teams.

 

[DegenX]

And if they are, can they really afford to 'lose' JVR.

IMO, the deal for Fleury and JVR is Fleury + Kunitz (last deal year) for Bernier (last deal year) + JVR.

Kunitz wouldn't waive for Toronto last season, so it's unlikely he'd be willing to do it this one. Toronto has other up and coming wingers. If they do sign Stammer, then they might just go for Laine instead of Matthews. In that case, they might be more interested in a guy like Fehr. Some pretty big 'ifs' though.

 

[Shady Machine]

JR is the same guy that offersheeted Fedorov back in the 90s. It's probably more likely that we'd trade for his rights, but I wouldn't put it past JR to offersheet him.

Maybe but that's a long time ago. Offer sheets are rare in the NHL today.

 

[Shady Machine]

JR is the same guy that offersheeted Fedorov back in the 90s. It's probably more likely that we'd trade for his rights, but I wouldn't put it past JR to offersheet him.

Looking at it roughly, there are a lot of good RFAs this summer. Kucherov is likely going to be getting close to the Tarasenko contract, so that opens up Killorn for an offersheet (especially if they keep Stamkos). Trocheck could likely be had for reasons I listed above. I don't think the Rangers would be able to match JT Miller nor the Wild would be able to match Zucker at $3 million. If he's not traded, Shaw will almost definitely get an offer sheet (I think he gets traded). If JR wanted to get really bold, I'd want him to go after Hertl from San Jose. They probably could afford to match for next year, but beyond that, it may present issues with Thornton, Marleau, Burns and Wingels all needing new contracts by next year.

Lots of good RFAs to seek in trades. Offer sheets are rare. Maybe this summer presents an opportunity to do it, but I'd probably bet against it happening. I would also guess one of Thornton and Marleau won't be back after their contracts expire. They will 37 at the end of next year. San Jose isn't going to walk away from Hertl so they can re-sign 37 year old Marleau.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you move Fleury and Kunitz and don't blow the bank on defense (Schultz or whoever), then it's most assuredly doable. As I've said, you look not just to free agency but to poach the cap strapped teams.

I don't disagree, but it's not likely that you can trade both Fleury and Kunitz without taking back salary. In Fleury's case, it might be a goalie. In Kunitz case, it might be a struggling younger winger signed a little longer (Like the Perron, Hagelin deal).

It's certainly not impossible, but I don't know how likely.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Maybe but that's a long time ago. Offer sheets are rare in the NHL today.

They were a serious enough threat to get Chicago to trade Saad and Boston to trade Hamilton at the draft. I feel like there aren't that many offer sheets thrown around because of the negatives that come with it (I assume that GMs would look poorly on guys who throw offersheets around) and teams likely can match most offer sheets that could be thrown around. The only times offer sheets are used is when teams would have to inconvenience themselves to match them or wouldn't be able to match them, similar to Weber, Vanek and Kesler when they signed their offer sheets. For example, the reason that Saad last summer wasn't thrown any offer sheets was because any realistic offer for him would have been matched by Columbus. However, had he stayed with Chicago, they likely couldn't have matched any realistic offers for him, which is exactly why they moved him.

Basically, offer sheets are rare because the situations that an offer sheet would work in are rare.

 

[Shady Machine]

They were a serious enough threat to get Chicago to trade Saad and Boston to trade Hamilton at the draft. I feel like there aren't that many offer sheets thrown around because of the negatives that come with it (I assume that GMs would look poorly on guys who throw offersheets around) and teams likely can match most offer sheets that could be thrown around. The only times offer sheets are used is when teams would have to inconvenience themselves to match them or wouldn't be able to match them, similar to Weber, Vanek and Kesler when they signed their offer sheets. For example, the reason that Saad last summer wasn't thrown any offer sheets was because any realistic offer for him would have been matched by Columbus. However, had he stayed with Chicago, they likely couldn't have matched any realistic offers for him, which is exactly why they moved him.

Right so the chances of JR offer sheeting someone is highly unlikely, as I said. All those guys you listed are potential trade targets though.

 

[mpp9]

I'd love to go after Killorn. Outside of Kuhn, we've got no one with that type of skillset.

I'd offersheet Killorn at 3.7 for 4 or 5 years, and see if Tampa matches. They have way too many contracts to worry about the next two summers to make them not at least sweat about it.

 

[Shady Machine]

I'd love to go after Killorn. Outside of Kuhn, we've got no one with that type of skillset.

I'd offersheet Killorn at 3.7 for 4 or 5 years, and see if Tampa matches. They have way too many contracts to worry about the next two summers to make them not at least sweat about it.

You think they wouldn't match? I'd pay Killorn 4.5 for that term. I like the idea, I just think Killorn gets more from Tampa even without the threat of an offer sheet.

The guy has 30 points in 42 playoff games and 26 of those are ES.

I'd like to see him next to Malkin.

 

[KIRK]

I don't disagree, but it's not likely that you can trade both Fleury and Kunitz without taking back salary. In Fleury's case, it might be a goalie. In Kunitz case, it might be a struggling younger winger signed a little longer (Like the Perron, Hagelin deal).

It's certainly not impossible, but I don't know how likely.

You're not wrong, but the flexibility is there without those two being pure salary dumps.

I just think if we legitimately could put out three #1 lines (not HBK, 2/3 of a line with Sid-Horny, and 1/3 of a line with Geno), it's an advantage unlike any seen in the cap era in the league.

Means you have to hope Maatta bounces back and Schultz (or whoever) doesn't cost a ton and going with Murray, but man would that be a sick team if Sid and Geno had legit lines.

You think they wouldn't match? I'd pay Killorn 4.5 for that term. I like the idea, I just think Killorn gets more from Tampa even without the threat of an offer sheet.

The guy has 30 points in 42 playoff games and 26 of those are ES.

I'd like to see him next to Malkin.

They won't have a problem keeping Killorn. Stamkos is going to go.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd love to go after Killorn. Outside of Kuhn, we've got no one with that type of skillset.

I'd offersheet Killorn at 3.7 for 4 or 5 years, and see if Tampa matches. They have way too many contracts to worry about the next two summers to make them not at least sweat about it.

Killorn would be my 2nd choice after Trocheck. I would imagine that he gets traded before free agency starts for something like a 2nd and a 3rd (what his RFA compensation would be plus an additional piece). That's what happened with Hamilton last summer, I'd imagine that is what would happen with RFAs for this summer.

You think they wouldn't match? I'd pay Killorn 4.5 for that term. I like the idea, I just think Killorn gets more from Tampa even without the threat of an offer sheet.

The guy has 30 points in 42 playoff games and 26 of those are ES.

I'd like to see him next to Malkin.

If they want to pay Stamkos, they're not going to be able to match that.

It's really hard to guess what Killorn would get in terms of offer sheets. Would his compensation be a 2nd or a 1st and a 3rd? I think he'd fall in the $3.5-$4 million range, but I don't know where he'd ultimately fall in terms of compensation. I think the best comparable for Killorn would be Colin Wilson from the Predators, who is just a shade under $4 million AAV. He also had a better season and an insane playoff run before getting that contract though.