Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #6

[tade]

I'm not clicking on the link, but 10th best league in the world? That's ridiculous.

That may be the worst thing, I've ever read in terms of hockey. Literally.

AHL is comfortably 3rd or 4th best hockey league in the world.

NHL
KHL
AHL/SHL - it's close. Reasons could be made for both leagues.
Liiga is right behind them, getting better and better over the last few years.

 

[deadhead]

SHL is clearly better than AHL, top players quickly exit the AHL, it's primarily composed of prospects who need seasoning and players lacking the talent for the NHL.

The SHL has a mix of top prospect who'd otherwise be in juniors in NA, a smattering of veterans who could play in the NHL but prefer to spend part of their career at home, and AHL type players.

The difference is also in style, the AHL is more physical, the skill level in the SHL is higher. For Lindblom, who is physical enough for the AHL (which is why he didn't skip a beat in his cameo) the SHL is a better place to refine his open ice skills, for other Swedes, coming to NA can be a cultural shock on and off the ice.

 

[tade]

No, SHL is not clearly better league. Really not.

The SHL has a mix of top prospect who'd otherwise be in juniors in NA, a smattering of veterans who could play in the NHL but prefer to spend part of their career at home, and AHL type players.

Absolutely the same thing could be said about AHL. It's reasonable to think that SHL is better, but SHL is not clearly better than AHL. That's far away from being true.

I would rank AHL above SHL at the moment if I was forced to make decision.

There's really not many players in SHL who could play in the NHL for the significant time, most of established and top players in SHL would be career AHLers, or call-ups for a few games.

 

[deadhead]

AHL is more limited, since under 20 juniors either go back or to the NHL, they miss out on players who'd be among the top in that league if they were eligible (Konecny is a good example). And prospects like Ghost don't hang around very long.

SHL has those junior players, a smattering to be sure, but 1 or 2 per team (Lindblom and Sandstrom for example), plus NHL caliber players either at the start or end of their careers who prefer to play at home. KHL has the same assets, there's just more Russian players who are NHL caliber, and until the ruble collapsed, the money was better than the SHL.

 

[Hiesenberg]

I'd probably say the AHL is right below the SHL

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Teams are starting to take their top prospects from overseas & have them play in the AHL during their teenage years. You have Pastrnak, Nylander, Vrana, Fiala, Kapanen, Guryanov, Rantanen, Kempe, etc. amongst others just in recent years.

 

[FLYguy3911]

SHL is clearly better than AHL, top players quickly exit the AHL, it's primarily composed of prospects who need seasoning and players lacking the talent for the NHL.

The SHL has a mix of top prospect who'd otherwise be in juniors in NA, a smattering of veterans who could play in the NHL but prefer to spend part of their career at home, and AHL type players.

The difference is also in style, the AHL is more physical, the skill level in the SHL is higher. For Lindblom, who is physical enough for the AHL (which is why he didn't skip a beat in his cameo) the SHL is a better place to refine his open ice skills, for other Swedes, coming to NA can be a cultural shock on and off the ice.

I would like to see this smattering list.

 

[Curufinwe]

I would, too.

For a recent example of the comparative skill level between the leagues, Derek Ryan led the SHL in scoring in 14-15 with 60 points in 55 games. In 15-16, he had 55 points in 70 AHL games, and 2 points in 6 NHL games.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=12382

 

[StoneHands]

But he wasn't. If NAK was a first round pick with a 120 points per season, he'd be in the top five too.

But NAK didn't have a 120 point season. Reality is, Meyers did have a breakout season. He has a much better draft +1 year than Morin and actually had similar numbers to Morins draft +2 season (regular and playoffs combined) yet he gets overlooked a lot because he was undrafted. I think that was the point he was making.

 

[Rebels57]

But NAK didn't have a 120 point season. Reality is, Meyers did have a breakout season. He has a much better draft +1 year than Morin and actually had similar numbers to Morins draft +2 season (regular and playoffs combined) yet he gets overlooked a lot because he was undrafted. I think that was the point he was making.

Morin is more a of shutdown type defensemen though so comparing the numbers of the two is silly.

 

[JWEKD]

Comparing the numbers is not silly. Morin wasnt a "shutdown" defensemen then. You can't even label him that now. Maybe in the future. Those numbers for those two players is about as comparative as you can get.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Yeah, I don't really understand that claim.

 

[FLYguy3911]

If you adjust for age and consider the difference in scoring between their respective teams, there's not much difference in their per game production. They each had a hand in about 15% of their teams goals.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's fair to compare them since their roles weren't too far apart, but we can't say for sure if they got similar time on the PP without actual ice time numbers. Myers was also six months older than Morin for his draft + 1 season, and played on a better team. They both did very well, Myers was just more of a surprise.

Morin 13-14: 39 points in 65 games (0.6 P/G), Rimouski went 45-16-7 and scored 258 goals in the regular season
Myers 15-16: 61 points in 83 games (0.73 P/G), RNH went 54-9-5 and scored 302 goals in the regular season

Both of them were the second highest scoring dman on their teams.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010282014.html

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0010292016.html

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

But NAK didn't have a 120 point season. Reality is, Meyers did have a breakout season. He has a much better draft +1 year than Morin and actually had similar numbers to Morins draft +2 season (regular and playoffs combined) yet he gets overlooked a lot because he was undrafted. I think that was the point he was making.

But Myers wasn't drafted in the first round. You can't say "If Myers was drafted in the first round" and then did this blah blah blah. You can do that for any player. If this player was bigger, if that player was a better skater, if he scored more points his draft year, etc. Myers draft year was very poor, especially from a point production standpoint (as was the year before). 12 points in 106 games. He absolutely has a good year last year. No argument there at all. If he did that in his draft year, he probably would have been drafted. But he didn't.

 

[Rebels57]

Comparing the numbers is not silly. Morin wasnt a "shutdown" defensemen then. You can't even label him that now. Maybe in the future. Those numbers for those two players is about as comparative as you can get.

My mistake I thought you were comparing Myers not to Morin now.

 

[Tripod]

But Myers wasn't drafted in the first round. You can't say "If Myers was drafted in the first round" and then did this blah blah blah. You can do that for any player. If this player was bigger, if that player was a better skater, if he scored more points his draft year, etc. Myers draft year was very poor, especially from a point production standpoint (as was the year before). 12 points in 106 games. He absolutely has a good year last year. No argument there at all. If he did that in his draft year, he probably would have been drafted. But he didn't.

All he is saying is that on the ice, Myers draft + 1 season is very comparable to Morin's...slightly better. But Morin will get the nod over Myers due to him being a 1st rounder vs undrafted. And I think thats fair to say.

Everyone develops differently and draft day is 1 moment in time. Sean Day developed early, then did very little. Morin was always viewed as a longer term guy who would take longer to develop. Myers jumped in his draft+ 1 season. Luckily for us, we got him and no one else did. He still needs to keep developing like our other D have and that's why I have him after Morin. Because Morin has had the extra 2 years if good development. Myers just needs to continue on his path.

I think this poll can be put to rest. On to the next one.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

I voted Myers, but I've changed my mind to Laberge. He'll be my vote for next prospect

 

[Alex91]

In my opinion:

SHL can have dynasties and teams that have cores. Players in FA are looking to go to teams to win long term.

AHL is a farm system mostly composed of players and coaches that NHL teams are trying to mold into a future asset. Some times it works out that the youth and veterans combined to make a great teams. However once a player is no longer seen as NHLer they tend move on to other leagues where the money is good, or where their family is at, or going back and getting educated. This can lead to teams having very poor bottom 6 forwards. You can never really expect a AHL team to be great for more then 2-3 years, unless your team is a bottom feeder and are holding players back. Good teams seem to keep their #1 and 2 top forward prospects out of the AHL, esp if they are coming out of the CHL

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

The non North American based players typically leave pretty shortly after reality sets in that the NHL isn't going to be a long term option. However North American based players typically hold out pretty long before heading overseas. Some even just accept it & are contempt with playing in the AHL for however long.

Pittsburgh's minor league team WB-Scanton have been a pretty good team for a while now despite not really having a lot of legit prospects down there in that time span. They've just had some good veteran guys to make up for that. It helps that Jon Hynes & Mike Sullivan were coaches there over the year too though.

Even overseas you get a lot of movement not just guys moving from teams within leagues but guys moving to different leagues too. Not every team in the KHL pays out fair money. They've got a fair amount of dead weight teams just as they do rich clubs too.