Prospect Info: 2016-17 Flyers Prospects - Top 20 SKATERS, #5

[Hiesenberg]

Really not sure how Rubtsov is running away with this, given how little most of us have seen of him.

I think its just the recent hype of his drafting. I'm excited for him but he's 17, played juniors and nobody knows much about him.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

Sure, but according to some observers, Myers would have been a first round pick, is RHD, and a year further along.

I don't think it's crazy at all to rank Rubtsov higher, but I'm surprised by the margin.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Sure, but according to some observers, Myers would have been a first round pick, is RHD, and a year further along.

I don't think it's crazy at all to rank Rubtsov higher, but I'm surprised by the margin.

I think the Myers folks are a vocal minority so it seems like he is more highly regarded than he actually is around here. I think that most people probably have him solidly in the 6-10 range.

 

[Caser]

So, is Lyubimov eligible to be added to the poll? Or is he too old?

 

[Stizzle]

I think the Myers folks are a vocal minority so it seems like he is more highly regarded than he actually is around here. I think that most people probably have him solidly in the 6-10 range.

6th would be acceptable with Provorov, Sanheim, TK, Morin, and Rubtsov ahead of him in some order. That's not unrealistic. If people rank him any lower than that they just aren't paying attention imo.

 

[Curufinwe]

So, is Lyubimov eligible to be added to the poll? Or is he too old?

Good point.

He's the same age as Weal and Alt so I will add him to the next poll.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Isn't it a little misleading to say Myers is "a year further along" as if that's necessarily a positive given how little he showed offensively until his age 19 Junior season?

Rubtsov showing a complete game at Center while being a year and a half younger was a big reason I voted for him.

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

A year further along doesn't necessarily mean a year closer. Rubtsov will spend at least two full years in Russia, and I don't expect Myers to get to the NHL much before that.

Again, I have no issue with rating Rubtsov, particularly if you are bullish on the offensive upside. It's just harder for me to gauge that for a Russian junior, and I'm surprised the vote is running so far in one direction.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

6th would be acceptable with Provorov, Sanheim, TK, Morin, and Rubtsov ahead of him in some order. That's not unrealistic. If people rank him any lower than that they just aren't paying attention imo.

I think with guys like NAK, Hagg, and Lindblom still out there, it is perfectly reasonable to have him 9-10. It's also perfectly reasonable to have him above these guys. Reasonable minds can differ. I think the hype starts getting a bit much when he's listed ahead of guys like Rubstov, Konecny, and Morin because he had one good season AFTER he went undrafted. For those singing the praises of Myers, what are your thoughts on guys like Jeremy Lauzon, a guy that played on the same team as Myers and put up more points in fewer games and put up more points on the QMJHL all star team? Is he a better prospect than Myers?

I honestly know nothing about the guy, but it would seem a guy putting up more points in fewer games, being a 2nd round pick, playing on the same all star team and putting up more points there, unless the guy just can't skate or something (which would be surprising given his high draft selection and his play in the Q), would be a better prospect, or at least on the same level.

 

[Tripod]

I think the Myers folks are a vocal minority so it seems like he is more highly regarded than he actually is around here. I think that most people probably have him solidly in the 6-10 range.

I view Myers as better than Stanley...so could have been a top 20 pick. But I view German as someone who dropped due to lack of exposure and teams drafting for need.

I have Myers going next.

 

[Appleyard]

I view Myers as better than Stanley...so could have been a top 20 pick. But I view German as someone who dropped due to lack of exposure and teams drafting for need.

I have Myers going next.

In my mind Rubtsov & Jost on talent/skill/ability level were pretty much neck and neck... I had them right next to each other in the last ranking I posted here in May.

 

[Stizzle]

I think with guys like NAK, Hagg, and Lindblom still out there, it is perfectly reasonable to have him 9-10. It's also perfectly reasonable to have him above these guys. Reasonable minds can differ. I think the hype starts getting a bit much when he's listed ahead of guys like Rubstov, Konecny, and Morin because he had one good season AFTER he went undrafted. For those singing the praises of Myers, what are your thoughts on guys like Jeremy Lauzon, a guy that played on the same team as Myers and put up more points in fewer games and put up more points on the QMJHL all star team? Is he a better prospect than Myers?

I honestly know nothing about the guy, but it would seem a guy putting up more points in fewer games, being a 2nd round pick, playing on the same all star team and putting up more points there, unless the guy just can't skate or something (which would be surprising given his high draft selection and his play in the Q), would be a better prospect, or at least on the same level.

It doesn't matter that he was undrafted. These guys are so young. Things change so rapidly in those years. Wayne Simmonds wasn't drafted in his 1st year of eligibility, either was Shayne Gostisbehere. It doesn't matter. Sanheim went from a kid barely on the radar to a 1st round pick in half a season. We drafted Sam Morin in the 1st round after having a 16 point season. Myers had 8 points in his initial draft season.

You list Robert Hagg as someone who'd you consider ranking over Myers. I have no idea why. Hagg has barely improved in years. He's almost the same player he was when he was a highly touted 16 year old. At the beginning of his draft year he was a projected top 10 pick, and thought as possibly the next great Swedish defenseman. It doesn't matter. Things change so much when you're that age. He developed early and now has been passed by.

As for Jeremy Lauzon, he's a fine prospect. But first off, you kept mentioning the All-Star team. That was 2 games. So let's relax on that. He didn't play in either the Moncton or Shawinigan series, so I've seen much less of him than Myers. I think I watched every game from those playoff rounds. From what I've seen, he doesn't flash the same offensive instincts as Myers. His hockey IQ also seems questionable. Myers was the one named as a finalist for QMJHL defenseman of the year, not Lauzon. I have no clue if that matters at all, but I'm just throwing it out there. Overall, I much prefer what Myers brings to the table. He's loaded with talent, can do almost everything, and is showing rapid improvement. Myers is also right-handed. The importance of this seems lost on so many people.

There is seriously an extreme need for right-handed defensemen in the NHL by almost every team. Your value shoots up incredibly. Taylor Hall is one of the very best 5v5 scorers in the league and 24 years old. He just got traded for a guy strictly because he's right-handed. The Islanders could have had Hall for Hamonic and turned it down because he's right handed. Those 2 defensemen wouldn't sniff getting a return like that if they were lefty. If Gudas was left-handed the deal we gave him becomes pretty unattractive. But he's right-handed, so the deal has to be judged differently.

This is probably my last post in response to this subject. I really don't have the energy to engage in a long back and forth like you are known for. People can vote for whoever they want. I just think passing over a monster D with big upside like Myers for a complimentary winger like NAK, or a guy like Hagg who is living off draft hype is foolish.

 

[Random Forest]

Sure, but according to some observers, Myers would have been a first round pick, is RHD, and a year further along.

I don't think it's crazy at all to rank Rubtsov higher, but I'm surprised by the margin.

It shouldn't be surprising. Rubtsov was a consensus 1st round pick. Myers is one of those players who "could have" gone in the first round had he been available. I'd say he's held in similar regard to a prospect like Laberge who wouldn't have surprised anybody going in the top 25... or the middle of the second. Myers is closer to a prospect in that range than to Rubtsov.

As for people not having seen Rubtsov play... well, yeah, but let's be honest, ranking prospects is half scouting... but also half logic and intuition. Bob McKenzie doesn't personally scout every player on his list, and yet he has a very good intuition for where to rank each player because of the perception he gets from people he speaks to. We can logic our way into deducing that Rubstov is probably ahead of Myers who is probably closer to Laberge.

Obviously subjective values can change that calculus, but it shouldn't be surprising to see the aggregate margin given that.

 

[Magua]

As for Jeremy Lauzon, he's a fine prospect. But first off, you kept mentioning the All-Star team. That was 2 games. So let's relax on that. He didn't play in either the Moncton or Shawinigan series, so I've seen much less of him than Myers. I think I watched every game from those playoff rounds. From what I've seen, he doesn't flash the same offensive instincts as Myers. His hockey IQ also seems questionable. Myers was the one named as a finalist for QMJHL defenseman of the year, not Lauzon. I have no clue if that matters at all, but I'm just throwing it out there. Overall, I much prefer what Myers brings to the table. He's loaded with talent, can do almost everything, and is showing rapid improvement. Myers is also right-handed. The importance of this seems lost on so many people.

Lauzon reminds me of Letang-lite with brain-lite. He's got some great offensive ability and physicality, but his hockey sense can be spotty. Defensively, every time I watched him, he seemed sloppy and didn't leave me with a lot of confidence. I prefer Myers as a 2-way, pro style d man, and biased as I am, it never struck me as particularly close.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

It doesn't matter that he was undrafted. These guys are so young. Things change so rapidly in those years. Wayne Simmonds wasn't drafted in his 1st year of eligibility, either was Shayne Gostisbehere. It doesn't matter. Sanheim went from a kid barely on the radar to a 1st round pick in half a season. We drafted Sam Morin in the 1st round after having a 16 point season. Myers had 8 points in his initial draft season.

It doesn't matter that he went undrafted but it doesn't matter that his one good season was in his post draft year. He's a year older and a year more experienced. If he played that way in his draft year he may have been drafted, but he didn't. So your basing your entire opinion on one season of juniors as an 18/19 year old.

You list Robert Hagg as someone who'd you consider ranking over Myers. I have no idea why. Hagg has barely improved in years. He's almost the same player he was when he was a highly touted 16 year old. At the beginning of his draft year he was a projected top 10 pick, and thought as possibly the next great Swedish defenseman. It doesn't matter. Things change so much when you're that age. He developed early and now has been passed by.

That's fine, like I said it is reasonable to differ on that. You like him better than Hagg, right now I don't.

As for Jeremy Lauzon, he's a fine prospect. But first off, you kept mentioning the All-Star team. That was 2 games. So let's relax on that. He didn't play in either the Moncton or Shawinigan series, so I've seen much less of him than Myers. I think I watched every game from those playoff rounds. From what I've seen, he doesn't flash the same offensive instincts as Myers. His hockey IQ also seems questionable. Myers was the one named as a finalist for QMJHL defenseman of the year, not Lauzon. I have no clue if that matters at all, but I'm just throwing it out there. Overall, I much prefer what Myers brings to the table. He's loaded with talent, can do almost everything, and is showing rapid improvement. Myers is also right-handed. The importance of this seems lost on so many people.

I'm curious how a guy with more points in about 20 fewer games doesn't show the same offensive instincts as Myers...was he scoring by accident or is this one of those things where you tell me his goals/assists were easy and Myers were all difficult points? As for the rest, you may be righy, like I said I know nothing of Lauzon, I'm just curious that if Myers is better in some minds than Morin/Konecny/Rubstov and Lauzon at least on paper seems at least as good as him, whether or not that meant Lauzon was a better prospect than those three.

There is seriously an extreme need for right-handed defensemen in the NHL by almost every team. Your value shoots up incredibly. Taylor Hall is one of the very best 5v5 scorers in the league and 24 years old. He just got traded for a guy strictly because he's right-handed. The Islanders could have had Hall for Hamonic and turned it down because he's right handed. Those 2 defensemen wouldn't sniff getting a return like that if they were lefty. If Gudas was left-handed the deal we gave him becomes pretty unattractive. But he's right-handed, so the deal has to be judged differently.

While it is important, I don't think it impacts contracts or prospect rankings unless it's a situation where everything else is equal.

This is probably my last post in response to this subject. I really don't have the energy to engage in a long back and forth like you are known for. People can vote for whoever they want. I just think passing over a monster D with big upside like Myers for a complimentary winger like NAK, or a guy like Hagg who is living off draft hype is foolish.

So why respond at all? "I'd like to give my two cents but if anyone disagrees just know I'm not going to discuss or defend my position."

 

[Random Forest]

In a redraft, Lauzon would go very early in the second if not the first. Pretty much the same as Myers would.

Myers wins if you value raw potential. Lauzon wins if you value polish. It's not unreasonable to make a case for either.

Predictably, asking this question on the Flyers forum elicits answers mentioning Lauzon's decision making. If you asked this on the Bruins forum, you'd get responses mentioning Myers's track record. Not exactly sure how the comparison was brought up, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be evidence of.

 

[Curufinwe]

It'll be exciting to see Myers ranked as our 6th best prospect after not even being signed a year ago.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

When it comes to someone like Hagg I'll gladly take Myers smaller sample size in juniors over Hagg's three pedestrian years in the SHL & AHL now. I get he's playing in a higher league but he wasn't exactly drafted as a project type. He was a pretty built kid when he was drafted.

I don't even have Hagg in my top ten personally. Myers & Friedman have surpassed him at this point for me as they're trending upward while Hagg's leveling off at best.

 

[Magua]

In a redraft, Lauzon would go very early in the second if not the first. Pretty much the same as Myers would.

Myers wins if you value raw potential. Lauzon wins if you value polish. It's not unreasonable to make a case for either.

Predictably, asking this question on the Flyers forum elicits answers mentioning Lauzon's decision making. If you asked this on the Bruins forum, you'd get responses mentioning Myers's track record. Not exactly sure how the comparison was brought up, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be evidence of.

I don't know how you can come away with watching Lauzon and see "polish." He has some very junior qualities to his game. Evaluating on this year alone, track record or draft status placed aside, I think Myers has both greater 2-way polish at present (though still needs work himself) and more raw potential.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

In a redraft, Lauzon would go very early in the second if not the first. Pretty much the same as Myers would.

Myers wins if you value raw potential. Lauzon wins if you value polish. It's not unreasonable to make a case for either.

Predictably, asking this question on the Flyers forum elicits answers mentioning Lauzon's decision making. If you asked this on the Bruins forum, you'd get responses mentioning Myers's track record. Not exactly sure how the comparison was brought up, but I'm not sure what it's supposed to be evidence of.

The point was that I am curious how folks voting for Myers ahead of Rubstov/Konecny/Morin viewed a guy that played the same competition on the same team and outscored him by five points in almost 20 fewer games (and outscored him on the same all star team and had a better ppg in the playoffs).

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Not that many people have voted for Myers over Konecny, Morin, & Rubtsov the last three polls. Konecny ran away with the #3 spot. Morin & Rubtsov took most of the votes for #4. Rubstov is currently running away with the #5 spot. Myers will likely run away at #6 & then is where the poll likely really gets interesting.

 

[Striiker]

Don't you guys see what happening here?

He's trying to bait someone into saying Myers is as good as those three but Lauzon is worse so that he can say that we overvalue our prospects and call everyone else's busts. He's attempted to make that claim a few times now, but had nothing to back it up, so now he's trying to manufacture evidence he can use in the future.

 

[Random Forest]

I don't know how you can come away with watching Lauzon and see "polish." He has some very junior qualities to his game. Evaluating on this year alone, track record or draft status placed aside, I think Myers has both greater 2-way polish at present (though still needs work himself) and more raw potential.

I disagree. Lauzon is further along on his development curve in terms of tying his game together. In other words, you can roughy discern what type of player he projects to be. I really don't have any clue what type of player Myers might be at the next level. I just know he has some tantalizing attributes. But he could be anything from a two-way, all situations guy to a specialist of some kind. Lauzon's projection is much easier.

It depends on how you define "polish" I suppose.

 

[Curufinwe]

Don't you guys see what happening here?

He's trying to bait someone into saying Myers is as good as those three but Lauzon is worse so that he can say that we overvalue our prospects and call everyone else's busts. He's attempted to make that claim a few times now, but had nothing to back it up, so now he's trying to manufacture evidence he can use in the future.

This nonsense has been going on for almost a year now.

 

[FLYguy3911]

I'm curious to see what Lauzon does this year. He started out the season on fire on RN's 1st powerplay and when they were scoring 5+ goals per game. He came back down to earth and then got hurt and was pretty ineffective the rest of the way.

Our buddy Craig Button seems to prefer Myers to Lauzon (and Chabot) FWIW.