Speculation: 2016-17 ★ Trade Proposals and Speculation ★

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Why trade Honka at all? I don't think one Sami Vatanen fixes this defense.

I think he'd definitely fix the right side. Honka certainly could too, but that's more of a gamble. I think Vatanen might be a decent mid point projection for Honka. If Honka turn out better than Vatanen, you're probably pretty happy. If he's worse than Vatanen, you're probably sad.

Anyways, back to Vatanen and why I want him. Penalty killing, statistically speaking he is very, very, very good with a man down as far as goals against and shots against per minute are concerned. I don't think Honka will ever develop that specific skill set (but maybe).

If your top defenseman isn't gonna kill (and probably shouldn't), everybody else has to excel. And, the only two defenseman in the organization who I think are even half decent on the PK are Johns and Hamhuis.



Why trade Honka?

Well, I'd only do that to get an all around LD. Or, in the event that he becomes a luxury.

With just Klingerg as the only defenseman on the team that can move the puck, he's certainly not a luxury right now. If a guy like Vatanen or Shattenkirk was brought in however, then yeah. I'd consider Honka a luxury at that point.

 

[Mr Misty]

I think he'd definitely fix the right side. Honka certainly could too, but that's more of a gamble. I think Vatanen might be a decent mid point projection for Honka. If Honka turn out better than Vatanen, you're probably pretty happy. If he's worse than Vatanen, you're probably sad.

Anyways, back to Vatanen and why I want him. Penalty killing, statistically speaking he is very, very, very good with a man down as far as goals against and shots against per minute. I don't think Honka will ever develop that specific skill set. But maybe. And if your top defenseman isn't gonna kill (and probably shouldn't), everybody else has got to excel.

And the only 2 defenseman in the organization who I think are even half decent on the PK are Johns and Hamhuis.

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Why trade Honka?

Well, I'd only do that to get an all around LD. Or, in the event that he becomes a luxury. With just Klingerg as the only defenseman on the team that can move the puck, he's certainly not a luxery. If a guy like Vatanen or Shattenkirk was brought in however, then yeah. I'd consider Honka a luxury at that point.

You want Pateryn to play every night? Or Oleksiak on his off side? Not sure what is fixed by losing Johns and Honka.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

You want Pateryn to play every night? Or Oleksiak on his off side? Not sure what is fixed by losing Johns and Honka.

If Johns is gone, we'd at least be keeping Hamhuis and Roussel, so I'd be happy about that.

We'd still be in the same position we are now, in desperate need of an all around lefty. And yeah, that's my top priority. I'm willing to trade Honka, Spezza or Klingberg to fix that, I've made no secrets about that. It's just that I hate most of the top 4 lefties available.

 

[Mr Misty]

If Johns is gone, we'd at least be keeping Hamhuis and Roussel, so I'd be happy about that.

We'd still be in the same position we are now, in desperate need of an all around lefty. And yeah, that's my top priority. I'm willing to trade Honka, Spezza or Klingberg to fix that, I've made no secrets about that. It's just that I hate most of the top 4 lefties available.

So you traded two of those pieces to not accomplish your top priority?

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

So you traded two of those pieces to not accomplish your top priority?

Yeah, for sure.

Adds some certainly to the top 4 and helps out on the PK. So that definitely addresses secondary priorities. Granted, it makes new holes, but I'm comfortable with that. No such thing as a free lunch after all.

Most importantly though, you're going from a 34 year old with a partial NTC/NMC to a 26 year old without any clauses. And as time goes on, the younger guy's trade value will resist decay for longer. So it's not like I'm blowing all my trade ammunition on superfluous parts.

Clearly, if a deal to trade Spezza and/or Honka to address the top need presents itself, then I'd happily toss my idea aside. Till then, you can catch me day dreaming about Sami.

 

[txomisc]

Why not target Cam Fowler. Would it take more than Spezza and Honka to get him?

I do think its about time to trade Spezza. I dont expect him to be a 60 point player anymore and has his production dips he has the potential to go from an asset to an albatross.

 

[Satan]

Fowler isn't as good as his reputation would lead you to believe.

 

[Mr Misty]

Fowler is 1 year away from UFA as well. Not a risk I want to gamble Honka on. Wonder if Spezza @ 4m plus Johns would get it started?

 

[txomisc]

Fowler isn't as good as his reputation would lead you to believe.

he is certainly better than vatanan.

 

[MBTendy]

Let's dangle our top pick for Lindholm

 

[Hull Fan]

Why on Earth does anyone want to bring back Sharp? An aging veteran who's been injured this year and has drastically declined in production. Didn't we see this with Whitney in his final year? Except this time Sharp doesn't already have a contract. He may or may not want to move but my question is, production on the ice...does he still have it? I have no doubt his injury is hampering things but Sharp is all but invisible at this point and keeping him seems likely to prevent a younger guy from grabbing a spot. I had no idea Remi Elie was that good a hockey player. Who else is hiding down in Texas that is ready for a shot?

Leadership is a luxury on a team that first and foremost needs better players. If there's not enough leadership between Benn, Seguin, Spezza, Hamhuis, Cracknell, etc. there are other bigger problems on this roster.

I don't particularly want the contract Oshie is going to demand either. If there's a trade for an out of favor or less than fantastic short term cap player, great. If not may the two best men between Dickinson, Stransky, McNeil, Gurianov, Smith, and Ully win.

 

[LT]

Let's dangle our top pick for Lindholm

How does this make any sense for Anaheim?

 

[ZeHockeyFan]

How does this make any sense for Anaheim?

I think that was a sarcastic post. Both Lindholm and Vatanen are on envious cap-friendly deals. I don't see Anaheim dealing him, even if they consider dealing Vatanen. If Anaheim does well during these playoffs, I fully expect them to try and lock-up Fowler long-term.

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Klingberg+Spezza (with retention) for Lindholm+Vatanen

 

[HabsTown]

Would you guys be open to Emelin for Eakin?

 

[Satan]

Would you guys be open to Emelin for Eakin?

absolutely not

 

[WhoahNow]

How about we don't trade Honka...I like Honka

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

When you consider the cap friendly contract Klingberg has, I doubt we should trade him, unless the return is equally good and cost controlled. The only problem is, there is little value in trading one type of D for another, and usually these trades are for different positions (Weber for Subban being a notorious exception)

 

[Ghost of Kyiv]

Jordie Benn was our only untouchable. Now that he's gone, everyone else is fair game.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

FWIW, talked to Brent Sevyrn last night on way back to seat and he thought Jamie O should be the third protection, but added he is not sure what Nill thinks. Also thinks they will add a UFA D or trade for one.

It may not matter, as Heika pointed out, what team would take the lower end of the worst D in the league? Eakin, Ricthie and/or Roussel, whoever is unprotected are probably more attractive to LV than any Stars D.

Personally, presuming Vegas isn't going to come out of the blocks a winner, their marketing will focus on fights or physicality, like the Stars first year here. That would make IMHO Roussel and Johns the most valuable commodities, although with the former McPhee/Eakin connection, if he were exposed, maybe him as a true 2C on an expansion team. 3C at worst. Although, you could also say he did trade him once for Ribs.....

And, while pure speculation on my part, I did sit last night wondering if the Stars are artificially creating some Johns/Oleksiak doubt, specifically (or mostly) intended to confuse LV a bit by making JO look more attractive. Wouldn't be the craziest idea.

That said, I will admit I am a Johns fan over Jamie, so my thought process may be a bit skewed.

 

[Mr Misty]

FWIW, talked to Brent Sevyrn last night on way back to seat and he thought Jamie O should be the third protection, but added he is not sure what Nill thinks. Also thinks they will add a UFA D or trade for one.

It may not matter, as Heika pointed out, what team would take the lower end of the worst D in the league? Eakin, Ricthie and/or Roussel, whoever is unprotected are probably more attractive to LV than any Stars D.

Personally, presuming Vegas isn't going to come out of the blocks a winner, their marketing will focus on fights or physicality, like the Stars first year here. That would make IMHO Roussel and Johns the most valuable commodities, although with the former McPhee/Eakin connection, if he were exposed, maybe him as a true 2C on an expansion team. 3C at worst. Although, you could also say he did trade him once for Ribs.....

And, while pure speculation on my part, I did sit last night wondering if the Stars are artificially creating some Johns/Oleksiak doubt, specifically (or mostly) intended to confuse LV a bit by making JO look more attractive. Wouldn't be the craziest idea.

That said, I will admit I am a Johns fan over Jamie, so my thought process may be a bit skewed. And, hopefully by admitting that, it will keep Misty from making several long winded posts pointing out same.......

Well they can protect one of them, so it would be pretty crazy to do something like that unless they plan on protecting Hamhuis instead or getting somebody else in to protect without paying one of Oleksiak/Johns in the process.

Nothing wrong with being partial to Johns, righties are harder to find and he has that kind of skillset that old time hockey folks always overvalue, and guys like him are always over-drafted.

 

[Mr Misty]

I wonder if we really stepped in it moving Jordie. If a team like the Islanders who has too many defensemen to protect was looking to move one, trading Jordie and Johns for CDH means they get at least one cheap and decent player for him and possibly 2.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Misty,

Probably right that any deception would have limited value, but it was a thought.

As to Jordie, I guess you don't know what you got til its gone. He did seem pretty solid the last few years, and at least one site had his possession numbers averaging out to solid second pair D, something we have been looking for forever, and we had it and let it go. That said, he was used on third pair most, so maybe his numbers puff up a bit against lesser competition. Not to worry about it now. As someone said, trading out third pair D is like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Of all the comments made by Sevryn last night, he was most emphatic that they need to bring in an outside D in the off season, as in "They need to do SOMETHING". Again, not sure an announcer is privy to their thoughts, but he is an inside hockey guy. And, for that matter, when your D and PK are last in the league, that would be pretty obvious to anyone. Not that Haimus has made a big difference, so its is still a crap shoot.

As far as I can tell, the Stars statistically give up the most in tight, quality scoring chances in the NHL. If I understand correctly, half of that is Kari giving up more rebounds than the average goalie, and our D not clearing them, last night excepted.

There was a replay of a close Sharks chance, in slow motion, on the jumborton. The two Stars in the picture were Faksa and Shore. No D to be found. Why wouldn't the D be in close clearing the man and puck from the crease?

I recall Ludwig mentioning a D man who never crossed the centerline of the ice from his side. I see the Stars D running all over the place. I think they need a simpler system that keep the D near the crease, but I am no expert, of course. They were much better last night at clearing those rebounds and blocking shots.

Heika said the practiced it a lot this week. So, the question is, why wait til now to practice a basic?

 

[Dallasman]

Misty,

Probably right that any deception would have limited value, but it was a thought.

As to Jordie, I guess you don't know what you got til its gone. He did seem pretty solid the last few years, and at least one site had his possession numbers averaging out to solid second pair D, something we have been looking for forever, and we had it and let it go. That said, he was used on third pair most, so maybe his numbers puff up a bit against lesser competition. Not to worry about it now. As someone said, trading out third pair D is like re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Of all the comments made by Sevryn last night, he was most emphatic that they need to bring in an outside D in the off season, as in "They need to do SOMETHING". Again, not sure an announcer is privy to their thoughts, but he is an inside hockey guy. And, for that matter, when your D and PK are last in the league, that would be pretty obvious to anyone. Not that Haimus has made a big difference, so its is still a crap shoot.

As far as I can tell, the Stars statistically give up the most in tight, quality scoring chances in the NHL. If I understand correctly, half of that is Kari giving up more rebounds than the average goalie, and our D not clearing them, last night excepted.

There was a replay of a close Sharks chance, in slow motion, on the jumborton. The two Stars in the picture were Faksa and Shore. No D to be found. Why wouldn't the D be in close clearing the man and puck from the crease?

I recall Ludwig mentioning a D man who never crossed the centerline of the ice from his side. I see the Stars D running all over the place. I think they need a simpler system that keep the D near the crease, but I am no expert, of course. They were much better last night at clearing those rebounds and blocking shots.

Heika said the practiced it a lot this week. So, the question is, why wait til now to practice a basic?

That's on the coaching staff if it's taken THIS long to implement a defensive system like that. Ruff can't be let go soon enough if that is indeed the case.

I'm all for bringing in an outside dman to this organization and I will trumpet Karl Alzner as a UFA dman we should go after.

 

[BeaverSports]

I'm all aboard that Alzner train.