Salary Cap: 2015 offseason roster-building thread I | Charts in post #1 | Cap projection: $71.5M

[Jag68Sid87]

As a "young wing" with an eye having a long, productive, lucrative career, Chicago would be my second or third to last choice among NHL franchises, which is the same conclusion Morin, Pirri and, allegedly, Jimmy Hayes came to when they asked out without any control over where they'd be going.

So, yes. Pittsburgh would be preferable. As would Phoenix, San Jose, Boston, Vancouver and twenty other clubs.

Not choosing Pittsburgh isn't nearly as weird as choosing Chicago, fourth line minutes and, on the next contract, fourth line pay. Better to take a VP track job with Jed's Flowers than a data entry clerk position at Google that has slim to zero possibility of advancement.

Yes, because Pittsburgh is the bastion of career advancement for today's young NHLer.

Give me a break, bb.

What you're talking about is, IN THEORY, this would be as desirable as any place in the NHL for a young winger to choose.

But reality bites my friend.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Yes, because Pittsburgh is the bastion of career advancement for today's young NHLer.

Give me a break, bb.

What you're talking about is, IN THEORY, this would be as desirable as any place in the NHL for a young winger to choose.

But reality bites my friend.

He's more talking about him choosing Chicago than him not choosing Pittsburgh...

 

[DesertPenguin]

One thing thats been bugging me since the GMHR presser:

He said getting top 6 wingers was the top priority, and that it would likely have to be through trade. Who are his trade chips here?

Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Hornqvist, Maatta should be untouchable. Perron is worth more to us on the roster than he is as a trade chip. Dupuis is damaged goods and locker room glue, so from two fronts he should be safe. Sundqvist and Kapanen are part of the solution to getting younger and faster, so you have to think they're not moving.

I would certainly hope he's going to try to hold on to the 1st round pick. The prospect pool is going to get thin real quick here once we graduate some of these guys to the big club.

On D you could maybe afford to move out one of Pouliout, Dumoulin or Harrington, but ideally we need those guys to enter the lineup on cost controlled contracts to afford a competitive roster.

Kunitz and Spaling could be dealt, OK, but is there much value there? Bennett doesn't have much value. Sutter? Ok but you need to be able to replace him and I don't think Sundqvist should be just handed that. Maybe its a competition between him and Spaling?

Does one of our goalie prospects get moved? We could decide to tap Murray as the goalie of the future and send out Jarry, but unproven AHL goalies not named Jonathan Bernier or John Gibson don't have much value either.

So what can you get for Brandon Sutter, Scott Harrington and some dinged up spare parts?

 

[EbonyRaptor]

That guy's exhibit A in why it would make more sense to sign practically anywhere but Chicago (Minnesota would also be a bad choice, imo). TT's getting somewhat limited minutes and often gets bounced to the fourth.

Maybe he could learn a lot from Kane in practice, but when his contract expires, I don't see how he's going to have the numbers for the big raise he'd be angling towards. There's a lack of opportunity, even without TT to jump over.




Strange, if what you say is true, that 4 young Chicago forwards trying to break into the NHL have demanded trades or refused to sign in the last two seasons (5, if Jimmy Hayes was a trade request as has been rumored). In your boundless wisdom, is that something you can explain? I'm guessing it's more likely you didn't even know that.

I think to compare the forwards who didn't/couldn't make it with the Hawks with the potential of Panarin is apples/oranges. Looking at each of the players and considering the timing makes more sense.

Pirri - doesn't play defense and not dedicated enough - can't play for Q
Morin - not good enough skater to play fast game
J.Hayes - not good enough skater to play fast game
K.Hayes - chose not to sign with Hawks - his reasons are unknown to me.

All of those guys would have had to compete for playing time with the current roster. Most likely Sharp, Bickell and maybe Versteeg will be gone due to the Cap. Teravainen plays a different position/role than Panarin so not really competition for same spot. The Hawks will have 4 top-6 players after trades this summer - Toews, Kane, Hossa and Saad. Teravainen may get one of the open top-6 spots but there is a spot open and since Saad is the only LW - it would be a spot for Panarin.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

these reports about friend players wanting to play for the same team need to die. it never happens. we've heard it time and time again and it never ever happens. not in a cap era anyway... the closest we got are the Sedins and on top of being twins they took massive paycuts for making it happen...

If you disregard all the times that friends actually did go to play together then you're 100% right. Awesome argument!

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

As a "young wing" with an eye having a long, productive, lucrative career, Chicago would be my second or third to last choice among NHL franchises, which is the same conclusion Morin, Pirri and, allegedly, Jimmy Hayes came to when they asked out without any control over where they'd be going.

So, yes. Pittsburgh would be preferable. As would Phoenix, San Jose, Boston, Vancouver and twenty other clubs.

Not choosing Pittsburgh isn't nearly as weird as choosing Chicago, fourth line minutes and, on the next contract, fourth line pay. Better to take a VP track job with Jed's Flowers than a data entry clerk position at Google that has slim to zero possibility of advancement.

Why would any unproven young scoring winger think that Pittsburgh would give them a legit opportunity though, bb?

The Hawks can be a tough nut to crack, but at least they've developed a few over the past decade.

 

[billybudd]

Yes, because Pittsburgh is the bastion of career advancement for today's young NHLer.

Give me a break, bb.

What you're talking about is, IN THEORY, this would be as desirable as any place in the NHL for a young winger to choose.

But reality bites my friend.

No, I'm not. I made no argument for why Pittsburgh would be a better landing spot than, for example, Arizona. Or even Carolina. I can't tell you I wouldn't pick Dallas over Pittsburgh in his shoes. In fact, I probably would.

All I'm saying is a young, scoring wing trying to navigate Chicago's depth chart is career suicide, which is why almost all of their own such players demand out these days. They lost to trade demand and refusal to sign a supporting cast better than that of most teams in the last 24 months.

You can be the smartest marketer in the world, but if a company won't have any marketing job openings for several years, there are several similar people ahead of you and you agree to clean the office to get your foot in the door, the only thing in your future is vacuum cleaners and dust rags.

Why would any unproven young scoring winger think that Pittsburgh would give them a legit opportunity though, bb?

The Hawks can be a tough nut to crack, but at least they've developed a few over the past decade.

They might not. The not-with-Penguins thing is disappointing, but not all that weird. The sign-with-Hawks thing is what has me mystified.

 

[cassius]

As a "young wing" with an eye having a long, productive, lucrative career, Chicago would be my second or third to last choice among NHL franchises, which is the same conclusion Morin, Pirri and, allegedly, Jimmy Hayes came to when they asked out without any control over where they'd be going.

So, yes. Pittsburgh would be preferable. As would Phoenix, San Jose, Boston, Vancouver and twenty other clubs.

Not choosing Pittsburgh isn't nearly as weird as choosing Chicago, fourth line minutes and, on the next contract, fourth line pay. Better to take a VP track job with Jed's Flowers than a data entry clerk position at Google that has slim to zero possibility of advancement.

Guys like Pannarin want to win now.

They can win now in a place like Chicago.. not in Pittsburgh. There is 0 culture of winning here in Pittsburgh. The only culture that exists here is characterized by consistent underachievement, missed opportunities, turmoil, inept management, and a revolving door of castoffs. This franchise is a total disaster. I can understand why UFA's want no part of it.

 

[billybudd]

I think to compare the forwards who didn't/couldn't make it with the Hawks with the potential of Panarin is apples/oranges. Looking at each of the players and considering the timing makes more sense.

Pirri - doesn't play defense and not dedicated enough - can't play for Q
Morin - not good enough skater to play fast game
J.Hayes - not good enough skater to play fast game
K.Hayes - chose not to sign with Hawks - his reasons are unknown to me.

All of those guys would have had to compete for playing time with the current roster. Most likely Sharp, Bickell and maybe Versteeg will be gone due to the Cap. Teravainen plays a different position/role than Panarin so not really competition for same spot. The Hawks will have 4 top-6 players after trades this summer - Toews, Kane, Hossa and Saad. Teravainen may get one of the open top-6 spots but there is a spot open and since Saad is the only LW - it would be a spot for Panarin.

I find it difficult to believe the Blackhawks will trade three players at the same position in the same summer.

This is off-topic, but while Jimmy Hayes is uncoordinated, he covers a ton of ground. He just looks slow because he's the size of two people.

 

[NatureBoy]

Guys like Pannarin want to win now.

They can win now in a place like Chicago.. not in Pittsburgh. There is 0 culture of winning here in Pittsburgh. The only culture that exists here is characterized by consistent underachievement, missed opportunities, turmoil, inept management, and a revolving door of castoffs. This franchise is a total disaster. I can understand why UFA's want no part of it.

Unfortunately most of that is true! A lot of players don´t sign in Pittsburgh because they don´t think they can have success, especially young guys. They see the horrible job this organization has done over the last couple of years developing young players and that they don´t get the playing time they need and deserve. That has a lot to do with it.......

 

[EbonyRaptor]

I find it difficult to believe the Blackhawks will trade three players at the same position in the same summer.

This is off-topic, but while Jimmy Hayes is uncoordinated, he covers a ton of ground. He just looks slow because he's the size of two people.

The main piece is Sharp and he's the only legit top-6 LW. Bickell and Versteeg are more 3ed line players. It's all speculation at this point - including the signing of Panarin until he actually signs - but the Hawks have to shed a ton off the Cap and Sharp is the asset that will clear the most Cap space and bring the best return so he's the most probable player to be traded. That will open up a LW spot somewhere on the top three lines which is where Panarin would play.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

One thing thats been bugging me since the GMHR presser:

He said getting top 6 wingers was the top priority, and that it would likely have to be through trade. Who are his trade chips here?

Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Hornqvist, Maatta should be untouchable. Perron is worth more to us on the roster than he is as a trade chip. Dupuis is damaged goods and locker room glue, so from two fronts he should be safe. Sundqvist and Kapanen are part of the solution to getting younger and faster, so you have to think they're not moving.

I would certainly hope he's going to try to hold on to the 1st round pick. The prospect pool is going to get thin real quick here once we graduate some of these guys to the big club.

On D you could maybe afford to move out one of Pouliout, Dumoulin or Harrington, but ideally we need those guys to enter the lineup on cost controlled contracts to afford a competitive roster.

Kunitz and Spaling could be dealt, OK, but is there much value there? Bennett doesn't have much value. Sutter? Ok but you need to be able to replace him and I don't think Sundqvist should be just handed that. Maybe its a competition between him and Spaling?

Does one of our goalie prospects get moved? We could decide to tap Murray as the goalie of the future and send out Jarry, but unproven AHL goalies not named Jonathan Bernier or John Gibson don't have much value either.

So what can you get for Brandon Sutter, Scott Harrington and some dinged up spare parts?

My best guess is:

2016 first rounder
DP
Sutter
KK
Bennett in a package (I think he has a second round value)

If you put DP or KK in a package with Sutter, you can get back a hell of a winger. If the Leafs take Hanifan, they will really need a pivot.

I could see a Sutter + KK for JVR deal.

It's obviously not likely, but it's a scenario with the right value. Getting the type of legit, skilled top six winger this team needs is going to be painful in terms of price.

 

[WayneSid9987]

No way they trade KK.
They'd trade Maata before they did that imo.

Well, atleast the Pens were interested in Panarin. Gotta start somewhere.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

My best guess is:

2016 first rounder
DP
Sutter
KK
Bennett in a package (I think he has a second round value)

If you put DP or KK in a package with Sutter, you can get back a hell of a winger. If the Leafs take Hanifan, they will really need a pivot.

I could see a Sutter + KK for JVR deal.

It's obviously not likely, but it's a scenario with the right value. Getting the type of legit, skilled top six winger this team needs is going to be painful in terms of price.

I agree, I think other teams will covet DP most highly of all of our trade assets that I would be willing to part with. But I can see a Sutter + KK + misc picks or B level prospect for JVR type deal. And although it would hurt, I'd do that 8 days a week.

The other package I could see going out is DP + Bennett + a mid rounder for a JVR type guy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

No way they trade KK.
They'd trade Maata before they did that imo.

I'm 99% sure this isn't the case.

- first this team no longer has the depth to lose Maatta
- secondly, Maatta's trade value will remain low until he proves he can play healthy for a sustained period.

I agree, I think other teams will covet DP most highly of all of our trade assets that I would be willing to part with. But I can see a Sutter + KK + misc picks or B level prospect for JVR type deal. And although it would hurt, I'd do that 8 days a week.

The other package I could see going out is DP + Bennett + a mid rounder for a JVR type guy.

Not sure with MR in Toronto that they will covet DP. I do agree that DP would be their most coveted asset by far though.

 

[Shrimper]

Trading KK, Maatta and Pouliot would go completely against what Rutherford has just said about getting younger.

 

[Ugene Magic]

With how Letang has been getting cheap-shot after cheap-shot for concussions I don't see where they can lose either of Maatta or Pouliot.

One of Dumoulin, Harrington or other will have to go instead.

Tough choices will have to be made for sure.

 

[Mischa]

Trading KK, Maatta and Pouliot would go completely against what Rutherford has just said about getting younger.

So was trading despres tbf

 

[penguins2946*]

I really don't see any of Dumoulin, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot or KK getting moved. I'm betting Bennett and Sutter are going to be used as prime trade chips.

 

[Shrimper]

So was trading despres tbf

Yeah, but this time he means it.

 

[Sideline]

I really don't see any of Dumoulin, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot or KK getting moved. I'm betting Bennett and Sutter are going to be used as prime trade chips.

I hope you're right, but I really doubt it. JR has a long history or trading away youth like the world is ending by the end of the decade.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I really don't see any of Dumoulin, Harrington, Maatta, Pouliot or KK getting moved. I'm betting Bennett and Sutter are going to be used as prime trade chips.

No, that's who people want to trade. Not the pieces it will actually take to land a very good top six winger with skill.

There's a huge difference between the pieces other GMs will want and who this board wouldn't mind seeing traded.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

My best guess is:
I could see a Sutter + KK for JVR deal.

It's obviously not likely, but it's a scenario with the right value. Getting the type of legit, skilled top six winger this team needs is going to be painful in terms of price.

I can see why the Pens would make that deal. I like the logic of why the Leafs would make the deal (to get a center).

But I cant believe they would trade JVR - a guy who seems to be good for 25g/50+points (on a crap team), making like $4.25mil a year - ... for a 30point guy, who will likely get over $4.5mil, who disappears rather often.

If the Leafs want to trade JVR, they will get a heck of a lot more than Sutter and KK.

 

[cassius]

JVR is intriguing - I'd be up for that

Panarin signs with CHI

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I can see why the Pens would make that deal. I like the logic of why the Leafs would make the deal (to get a center).

But I cant believe they would trade JVR - a guy who seems to be good for 25g/50+points (on a crap team), making like $4.25mil a year - ... for a 30point guy, who will likely get over $4.5mil, who disappears rather often.

If the Leafs want to trade JVR, they will get a heck of a lot more than Sutter and KK.

It's possible they get a better package, no one can say for sure.

I do know they badly need another pivot and there is such a dearth of them around, that the Leafs aren't likely to find a much better pivot on the market than Sutter.

I suspect they are going to take one with their fourth overall pick though, so the point is kind of moot.