GDT: 2015 NHL Entry Draft - Part III

[Yossarian54]

After having a day or two and a horrible hangover to think about this draft I quite like it.

Liked:
-Boeser
-Jasek
-McNally trade (getting something)

Meh/don't know enough to have an opinion:
-Brisebois
-Zhukenov
-Gaudette
-Olsen
-Neill

Disliked:
-Lack trade
-No Bieksa trade

I said before the draft in the Benning/management thread that Benning's words don't match his actions. He talks about meat and potatoes and scrums and then goes and gets Baertschi and Clendening. I think this draft reflects it, weird discouraging signs pre-draft in the videos released, then go for skill picks and Russians as well as 'real good' Canadian boys.

I also love the not-serious theory that that photo of Benning looking shocked is when he saw who Boston was going to draft. Bravo to whoever came up with that.

 

[Wilch]

I'm just glad our scouting staff didn't go completely bonkers and take someone off the board with our first.

 

[KDizzle]

After having a day or two and a horrible hangover to think about this draft I quite like it.

Liked:
-Boeser
-Jasek
-McNally trade (getting something)

Meh/don't know enough to have an opinion:
-Brisebois
-Zhukenov
-Gaudette
-Olsen
-Neill

Disliked:
-Lack trade
-No Bieksa trade

I said before the draft in the Benning/management thread that Benning's words don't match his actions. He talks about meat and potatoes and scrums and then goes and gets Baertschi and Clendening. I think this draft reflects it, weird discouraging signs pre-draft in the videos released, then go for skill picks and Russians as well as 'real good' Canadian boys.

I also love the not-serious theory that that photo of Benning looking shocked is when he saw who Boston was going to draft. Bravo to whoever came up with that.

Actually Benning has been pretty consistent in matching his actions with what he's intending on doing. He said he wanted:
1) The team to be faster and harder to play against - he gets Virtanen and not Nylander.
2) Puck movers - signs Hutton and Subban (albeit with much foot-dragging), drafts Forsling then trades for Clendenning, and drafts Brisebois, who by all accounts is a smooth-skating defenseman with a good first pass.
3) Guys that can finish - signs Vrbata (after failing to get Iginla, which, doesn't contradict that desire to get a finisher), drafts guys with good shots - McCann, Boeser, and even Virtanen.
4) Guys that can be physical - Drafts Tryamkin (who doesn't seem overly physical but Benning probably wants him to develop into a Chara lite), acquires Pedan, signs Dorsett and Sbisa. Tries to get Lucic.
5) Guys that will mentor youth - signs Miller and Dorsett

I think it's quite clear he's trying to find guys that fit specific roles on the team.

The issue with Benning isn't that he doesn't back up his talk... it's that his talk is outdated, he's a terrible negotiator, his pro-scouting is terrible, and he is completely unaware of how to operate in a cap world.

He clearly has a vision for how he wants to build this team, but he is failing primarily in assigning proper value to specific roles. I mean, we've got 12.25 Million (17%) tied up in essentially role players (Miller, Sbisa, and Dorsett). Proper valuation is an absolute requirement to work within the confines of a cap and we will see this team struggling in a few years to keep our young talent. We've seen it already in the Lack trade and we'll see it again when Benning wants to keep Dorsett over a guy like Gaunce because Dorsett is a "mentor".

 

[Yossarian54]

Actually Benning has been pretty consistent in matching his actions with what he's intending on doing. He said he wanted:

No I don't agree. I think that the cliches that we've fixed on here, with the meat and potatoes and the scrums and whatnot has created an impression that he will consistently go for the MacKenzie Stewarts of this world. While he has done so with respect to Dorsett and Sbisa, it's not reflected in the rest of his drafting and trading.

The rest of the scenario you've described is supposition. This is clearly a team in need of a rebuild and I suspect Benning actually recognises that. We shall see what happens when we actually need to re-sign younger players as to whether this occurs.

 

[DCantheDDad]

Our last 2 drafts fit this, lots of praise for great deafting but nothing has come out them yet and may never. Or they might be the two best drafts in the clubs history. Sit back and wait.

My issue with Boston is they could have risked trading down. 90% chance they get their guys and multiple 2nds. The 10% chance they miss out, well chances are they got as good or better anyway.

This is why I am laughing at Boston. It's not that the picked a player early, it's that they could have traded back to get other guys, plus their guy.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Ryan Lambert from Puck Daddy gave the Canucks a D+ grade for their entire draft (picks and transactions):

Vancouver Canucks: They did a decent job at the draft, which helps in two or three years. They traded a really good goalie, which hurts the next year or two. Just have a fire sale already. D+

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/n...rds--and-boston-s-near-failure-135709648.html

Agree with the last sentence.

 

[Ryp37]

Hoping ZK can come in here and share some thoughts on our new token Russian Zhukenov

 

[CanaFan]

Ryan Lambert from Puck Daddy gave the Canucks a D+ grade for their entire draft (picks and transactions):



https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/n...rds--and-boston-s-near-failure-135709648.html

Agree with the last sentence.

I don't agree with confusing the draft with 'draft day' as they are two wholly different things. I liked their draft and the 'types' of players they selected, especially Boeser and Jasek. This is more important than the trades to me as this tells me a lot about how this team will use the draft in future years, i.e. drafting for skill in all leagues, not just a few.

The actual day itself was tough and I can understand a lot of the negativity that is going around these boards and in the local media. The Lack trade was poor and I agree with many that say he didn't need to be traded immediately if the return was only what Carolina was offering. No need to rush that one.

The Bieksa deal I have less issue with. It's complicated to move a player with an NTC as you are caught between having a deal to take to the player and having the player express their willingness to be part of a potential deal. Sounds like Benning tried to get Kevin and his family excited about SJ so that he would wave but the negotiations for the actual compensation were complicated by DW's refusal to give up the (presumably discussed) 2015 2nd. It sucks how it turned out but I find a lot of the anger at Benning is misdirected.

As for missing out on Lucic and Hamilton, I feel the former was a blessing in disguise (he's not the direction this team should be going in) while the latter was a case of Boston 'rushing' the trade, as it was reported that many GM's weren't even aware that Hamilton was being shopped. Would have been amazing to acquire him but I'm not sure realistically we even could have. Calgary is about 2-3 years ahead of us in their rebuild and so have accumulated more and higher picks than us. We need to follow their lead in 2016 and 2017, which may lead to an opportunity to get a Hamilton-type player then.

All in all a tough weekend to watch but it is a result mainly of our position being halfway between a rebuild and trying to compete. This strategy means we are truly doing neither all that well.

 

[KDizzle]

I don't agree with confusing the draft with 'draft day' as they are two wholly different things. I liked their draft and the 'types' of players they selected, especially Boeser and Jasek. This is more important than the trades to me as this tells me a lot about how this team will use the draft in future years, i.e. drafting for skill in all leagues, not just a few.

The actual day itself was tough and I can understand a lot of the negativity that is going around these boards and in the local media. The Lack trade was poor and I agree with many that say he didn't need to be traded immediately if the return was only what Carolina was offering. No need to rush that one.

The Bieksa deal I have less issue with. It's complicated to move a player with an NTC as you are caught between having a deal to take to the player and having the player express their willingness to be part of a potential deal. Sounds like Benning tried to get Kevin and his family excited about SJ so that he would wave but the negotiations for the actual compensation were complicated by DW's refusal to give up the (presumably discussed) 2015 2nd. It sucks how it turned out but I find a lot of the anger at Benning is misdirected.

As for missing out on Lucic and Hamilton, I feel the former was a blessing in disguise (he's not the direction this team should be going in) while the latter was a case of Boston 'rushing' the trade, as it was reported that many GM's weren't even aware that Hamilton was being shopped. Would have been amazing to acquire him but I'm not sure realistically we even could have. Calgary is about 2-3 years ahead of us in their rebuild and so have accumulated more and higher picks than us. We need to follow their lead in 2016 and 2017, which may lead to an opportunity to get a Hamilton-type player then.

All in all a tough weekend to watch but it is a result mainly of our position being halfway between a rebuild and trying to compete. This strategy means we are truly doing neither all that well.

Just a footnote on the Hamilton deal, but it was reported that Calgary opened up discussions quite early with Boston. So kudos for them to taking that initiative as it probably led Sweeney to put the blinders on and give Calgary a sweetheart deal. And it's not like the Canucks had the assets this year to get that deal done. Perhaps throwing in a Cassels or a Kassian would have given them a leg up but it seems clear that Sweeney was really only looking to deal with Calgary.

 

[beachcomber]

Ryan Lambert from Puck Daddy gave the Canucks a D+ grade for their entire draft (picks and transactions):



https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/n...rds--and-boston-s-near-failure-135709648.html

Agree with the last sentence.

Ryan Lambert? Lol, he is brutal.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Add another to the pile:

Disappointing Drafts

2. Vancouver Canucks

With the improvements that the Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers are making, the Vancouver Canucks needed to keep pace, and General Manager Jim Benning had a relatively weak draft. In addition, the team traded away Eddie Lack, failed to land assets this year for players who may have been available, and then passed on critically important picks. Brock Boeser is an intriguing prospect thanks to his ability to score, but has some question marks beyond that, and the rest of their draft seemed lackluster.

Dmitry Zhukenov is an unknown boom-or-bust prospect, and Vancouver fans do seem to be generally pleased with Carl Neill, who does have some room for improvement. The Canucks opted for Adam Gaudette, who has a limited ceiling, and Lukas Jasek, who hasn’t been able to put everything together yet. Overall, with prospects like Travis Konecny, Oliver Kylington, and Nikita Korostelev available with their picks, it was disappointing that the team opted for safer picks rather than home-runs.

The Canucks face a situation where the Sedin twins and other talents are aging, except the big problem is the team doesn’t appear to have replacements ready to fill their spots in-house. It’s a problem that stems from weak drafts spent on questionable talents, this one included.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/125799/2015-nhl-draft-winner-losers-weekends-draft/2/

 

[CanaFan]

Add another to the pile:



http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/125799/2015-nhl-draft-winner-losers-weekends-draft/2/

Another silly assessment of the events. Especially to view it "relative to" other teams, especially Edmonton. Were they gonna have a better draft than us? Uh ya, they could have forfeited every pick and still had the best draft of the day. And that's the thing about being at the bottom, it's generally pretty easy to "get better". They had picks galore but the thing is they "paid" for those picks by having a cluster **** of a season. Until fans on this board are prepared to have a similar disaster of a regular season - some are coming around to it, others still have a strong aversion - it isn't reasonable to expect to have a better draft as well. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

It was a reasonably good day for drafting, given where and how many picks we had. It was a crap day for getting anything else done but until Management and Ownership are prepared to tear it down, days like this should be expected.

 

[MS]

I'd give the drafting itself a C or maybe a C+ and the transactions/roster work a colossal F.

 

[Jay Cee]

Add another to the pile:



http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/125799/2015-nhl-draft-winner-losers-weekends-draft/2/

I like how it is completely prefaced by fan reaction. Does that mean, gee...Hf Boards fan reaction? How indicative is that of general fan reaction?

 

[banme*]

I'd give the drafting itself a C or maybe a C+ and the transactions/roster work a colossal F.

Odd, the drafting seemed to align with what you preach. Care to elaborate?

 

[The Iron Goalie]

I would give the Canucks a B. Really liked their draft picks, and Even though I was dissapointed with the Lack deal, it doesn't ruin the whole draft for me.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

Add another to the pile:



http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/125799/2015-nhl-draft-winner-losers-weekends-draft/2/

So the author thinks we had a bad draft for passing on Kylington at 23, instead opting to take Boeser? Yeah, that's one of the worse 'analysis' you'll ever read...

There isn't one pick that I disagree with. Can't remember the last time I could say that. Hard not to love a draft when that happens - got the guy I was hoping for in Brock Boeser too.

Had Sauve flashbacks when I saw the name Brisebois at 66, then started digging into him deeper and love that pick. Sounds like a Tanev clone, with very few weaknesses - weaknesses that should go away as he grows and matures into his 6'2 frame.

The theme of the day seemed to be guys with smarts, good skating, big shots and high compete level. These are the attributes I want the team to keep pursuing.

Boeser, Baertschi and Brisebois is a nice trio to come away with at the top of this draft. You've got the playmaker, the finisher and the puck mover on the backend.

Benning earned the benefit of the doubt with this draft. It's extremely encouraging having that peace of mind going forward that he's going to run a very solid draft table - he obviously came to Vancouver with a strong reputation for doing just that, but it's nice to see him back it up.

 

[MS]

Odd, the drafting seemed to align with what you preach. Care to elaborate?

#1 pick seemed reasonable. Liked the Czech pick.

Brisebois I'm OK with ... although I don't like his developmental situation or how he didn't perform with better teammates at the U-18s.


What I want to see after the top 2 rounds are high-IQ, high-producing players who fell due to size/skating concerns. This is the profile for the vast majority of the picks that make it.

Instead we see more 'toolsy', under-producing players. Thankfully there are no obvious utter disaster picks like Stewart or Hannay ... but I don't think this fits the profile of an outstanding draft. We'll see.

 

[CAPTAIN CANUCK 71]

From a Hockey Future article today... does anyone know if Benning made any attempts to get Barzal?

This same article had the Isles having the Best Draft largely due to making it happen with Barzal.

Disappointing Drafts

1. Boston Bruins

The Boston Bruins stripped away some of the identity of their franchise by trading away Milan Lucic and Dougie Hamilton, and then used those acquired assets reaching for questionable picks that may have been available later in the draft. Among the notable talking points of the draft, the Bruins amassed three consecutive first-round picks, but didn’t use one of them on Mathew Barzal, a consensus top-10 talent. Beyond that, the team opted to select Zach Senyshyn, who was buried on the depth chart behind top prospects in Sault Ste. Marie, but would have likely been available in the second round.

The remainder of the Bruins draft looks a little light on skill, as most of the 10 prospects they added are limited in what tools they bring to the table and don’t project as anything more than role players. The beauty of the draft is that this is just a starting point, but these players will have a lot of work to do in order to prevent this crop from being considered a disappointment, especially considering some of the names that were available when they picked at various points.

Peter Chiarelli was cast aside in favor of Don Sweeney, and the Bruins are the talk of the town for all the wrong reasons. The Bruins did face salary cap problems, but a lackluster draft left a sour taste behind, especially after the team chose to move two fan favorites and special talents. No matter who is at the helm, the Bruins have their work cut out for them moving forward.

2. Vancouver Canucks

With the improvements that the Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers are making, the Vancouver Canucks needed to keep pace, and General Manager Jim Benning had a relatively weak draft. In addition, the team traded away Eddie Lack, failed to land assets this year for players who may have been available, and then passed on critically important picks. Brock Boeser is an intriguing prospect thanks to his ability to score, but has some question marks beyond that, and the rest of their draft seemed lackluster.

Dmitry Zhukenov is an unknown boom-or-bust prospect, and Vancouver fans do seem to be generally pleased with Carl Neill, who does have some room for improvement. The Canucks opted for Adam Gaudette, who has a limited ceiling, and Lukas Jasek, who hasn’t been able to put everything together yet. Overall, with prospects like Travis Konecny, Oliver Kylington, and Nikita Korostelev available with their picks, it was disappointing that the team opted for safer picks rather than home-runs.

The Canucks face a situation where the Sedin twins and other talents are aging, except the big problem is the team doesn’t appear to have replacements ready to fill their spots in-house. It’s a problem that stems from weak drafts spent on questionable talents, this one included.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Benning definitely should have pushed harder to get the 16th. Barzal being there was a complete fluke out for the Islanders. As soon as the Bruins pissed away their picks he should have been all over that.

Again, who knows if he was or not or if the Oilers just preferred the Islanders' offer. But still...Barzal would have been a huge steal there.

 

[Peen]

The only pick I don't like is Gaudette

Otherwise I'm not complaining.

 

[ahmon]

I like our 2015 Draft(purely on draft picks) much more than our 2014 draft.

1. Brock Boeser - Surefire top 6 sniper, I see him being a top line forward in the future.
Absolutely love this pick. Still in shock it happened. A+

2. Brisebois - Minimal viewings, but has a lanky frame with good agility and decent hockey sense. Plays like Vlasic, potential 2nd pairing dman. B

3. Dmitry Zhukenov- Skilled forward with good work ethic and willing to play in traffic. I like this pick B+

4. Carl Neill - Has some skill with good size. But I see a lack of mobility and subpar decision making. Don't like this pick. C-

5. Adam Gaudette - Can't rate

6. Lukas Jasek - a bit like Zhukenov, skilled. Got to keep drafting these types of prospects in the later rounds. B+

7. Tate Olson - typical toolsy lanky dman. At this point, I probably would have wanted the Canucks to take a chance on Aho, but its not a bad pick. B


Considering we picked 23rd, and then picked in the 3rd round. I think there is a good chance we get 2 NHLers if not more. And frankly I like Boeser more than Virtanen or McCann.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Now about the Lack trade. It sucks.

After the season ended. Our most untouchable forward should be Horvat, our most untouchable dman should be Tanev. And the goalie should Lack.

The decision to keep Miller/Markstrom over Lack is terrible.

 

[pitseleh]

What I want to see after the top 2 rounds are high-IQ, high-producing players who fell due to size/skating concerns. This is the profile for the vast majority of the picks that make it.

Instead we see more 'toolsy', under-producing players. Thankfully there are no obvious utter disaster picks like Stewart or Hannay ... but I don't think this fits the profile of an outstanding draft. We'll see.

Agree completely with this. Zhukenov had a good U18, but he was pretty miserable in a league that isn't exactly known for churning out players. Gaudette had a poor statistical season in the USHL too. At that stage, I'd wager production will get you more NHLers than tools.

 

[VC]

So the author thinks we had a bad draft for passing on Kylington at 23, instead opting to take Boeser? Yeah, that's one of the worse 'analysis' you'll ever read...

There isn't one pick that I disagree with. Can't remember the last time I could say that. Hard not to love a draft when that happens - got the guy I was hoping for in Brock Boeser too.

Had Sauve flashbacks when I saw the name Brisebois at 66, then started digging into him deeper and love that pick. Sounds like a Tanev clone, with very few weaknesses - weaknesses that should go away as he grows and matures into his 6'2 frame.

The theme of the day seemed to be guys with smarts, good skating, big shots and high compete level. These are the attributes I want the team to keep pursuing.

Boeser, Baertschi and Brisebois is a nice trio to come away with at the top of this draft. You've got the playmaker, the finisher and the puck mover on the backend.

Benning earned the benefit of the doubt with this draft. It's extremely encouraging having that peace of mind going forward that he's going to run a very solid draft table - he obviously came to Vancouver with a strong reputation for doing just that, but it's nice to see him back it up.

Yea that doesn't make sense. He was taken 60th, would of been poor value taking him at 23. Maybe if the Canucks did a series of trades with the 23rd pick to turn it into multiple picks ranging in the 2nd and 3rd round would that of made sense.

I didn't know anything about Boeser before the draft but like everything I've heard about since so yes I agree, Boeser, Baertschi and Brisebois looks like good usage of picks in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd round.

 

[SgtToody]

Are there any stats or info on the success rate of drafting 2nd year eligible guys? We picked 2 players who were passed over last year, but I am wondering how often has a player like that turned into an NHLer; or even a 4A player (to borrow the baseball term).