2015 NHL Draft Prospect Discussion - 2 first rounders coming home.

[Drew311]

That's part of the problem though, I don't buy that excuse at all.

I'd urge you to compile a list of teams that have had worse home-grown talent than the Leafs over the last 40 years.

It's not pretty, draft positions or not.

Plus you shouldn't blame not drafting well on draft position. Many teams have drafted franchise/impact players outside the top 10.

 

[silentbob37*]

Plus you shouldn't blame not drafting well on draft position. Many teams have drafted franchise/impact players outside the top 10.

It happens, but teams don't regularly do it. Some teams get lucky once in a while.

There is a difference between not drafting well and not drafting franchise talent.

 

[X66]

Its not an excuse. How many teams get top tier talent later in the draft?

Remember in the 90's and 2000's when it was the Red Wings and the Devils who were amazing drafting and development teams? Well the Red Wings got lucky with a couple picks, the Devils didn't and now look at the Devils.....

You can't expect a team with as few early picks as the Leafs last 20-30 years to have drafted and developed top tier talent. This isn't the same as saying they haven't made a mistakes or could be better, but you can't come down on them for it. Now if its still true 5 years from now after 5 years of rebuilding.........

Bruins:
Bergeron
Krejci
Lucic
Marchand

Ducks:
Perry(late first)
Getzlaf(late first)

Hawks:
Keith
Crawford
Byfuglien
Brouwer
Bickell
Bolland
Hjalmarsson

Kings:
Quick
Simmonds(used for trade that helped win a cup)
Toffoli

Habs:
Plekanec
Subban
Gallagher

Preds:
Weber
Rinne
Hornqvist(traded)
Franson
Josi
Smith
---

And that's just looking at some of the contending teams in the NHL right now, all within the last 15 years.

In the last 40 years, the only notable picks outside of the 1st round were Carlyle(lol), Leeman, T.Gill, Domi, Potvin, Modin, Berezin, Markov, Kaberle, S.Thornton, Mair, Ponikarovsky, Wellwood, White, Stajan, Kulemin, Stralman, Reimer, Holzer, Gunnarsson Stalberg and Hayes.

Simply pathetic, and that is 40 years compared to other teams 15...

And as I've stated, they have improved, as you can see by the players names, but how many players on that list would you consider elite? How many key core pieces on successful teams?

Historically, the Leafs are at the bottom of the barrel, but here's hoping that changes in the future.

 

[silentbob37*]

Bruins:
Bergeron
Krejci
Lucic
Marchand

Ducks:
Perry(late first)
Getzlaf(late first)

Hawks:
Keith
Crawford
Byfuglien
Brouwer
Bickell
Bolland
Hjalmarsson

Kings:
Quick
Simmonds(used for trade that helped win a cup)
Toffoli

Habs:
Plekanec
Subban
Gallagher

Preds:
Weber
Rinne
Hornqvist(traded)
Franson
Josi
Smith
---

And that's just looking at some of the contending teams in the NHL right now, all within the last 15 years.

In the last 40 years, the only notable picks outside of the 1st round were Carlyle(lol), Leeman, T.Gill, Domi, Potvin, Modin, Berezin, Markov, Kaberle, S.Thornton, Mair, Ponikarovsky, Wellwood, White, Stajan, Kulemin, Stralman, Reimer, Holzer, Gunnarsson Stalberg and Hayes.

Simply pathetic, and that is 40 years compared to other teams 15...

And as I've stated, they have improved, as you can see by the players names, but how many players on that list would you consider elite? How many key core pieces on successful teams?

Historically, the Leafs are at the bottom of the barrel, but here's hoping that changes in the future.

How many of htose guys are franchise talents? Getzlaf, Perry, Keith, Subban, Weber.....thats about it (goalies a weird thing.....) You're talking like 5 players.

 

[X66]

How many of htose guys are franchise talents? Getzlaf, Perry, Keith, Subban, Weber.....thats about it (goalies a weird thing.....) You're talking like 5 players.

So I'm guessing you also missed the point that stated key core players to a successful team.

Our homegrown talent is historically bad, some of the worst in the entire NHL...it's okay.

 

[silentbob37*]

So I'm guessing you also missed the point that stated key core players to a successful team.

Our homegrown talent is historically bad, some of the worst in the entire NHL...it's okay.

And I guesssed you missed the part where I mentioned and talked abotu franchise players.

You left Rask, Perreault, Markov, Harrison, Steen, & Komarov off your list.

Don't get me wrong, the leafs haven't been amazing at it, and in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's they were pretty terrible (after being pretty good in the 70's) but worst int he NHL....... And you DO have to take draft position and what picks they've made into account.

 

[BigWilly]

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
------------
3) Hanifin
4) Strome
5) Marner
6) Provorov
-------------
7) Barzal
8) Werenski
9) Rantanen
10) Crouse
11) Zacha
-------------
12) Konecny
13) Meier
14) Merkley
15) Svechnikov
16) Connor
17) White
18) Carlo
19) Kylington
20) Boeser

I'd be very happy with anyone from the second tier at Leaf's pick, and the last tier with NSH's pick.

 

[X66]

And I guesssed you missed the part where I mentioned and talked abotu franchise players.

You left Rask, Perreault, Markov, Harrison, Steen, & Komarov off your list.

Rask and Steen were left off of the list because I focused on the Leafs drafted outside of the 1st round. Neither was used as a part of a successful core, largely because they were traded before they flourished, which just further adds to the point that they aren't HOMEGROWN talent for the LEAFS.

Believe me, you don't want me to add the other teams first round picks to further destroy the Leafs list...

There is far more to the NHL than just drafting Franchise players, I hope you understand that.

I believe I did have Markov on the list, but you can go ahead and add Perreault and Harrison, it doesn't really help the cause.
---

Also, none of this discussion relates to my OP that illustrated that Strome and Marner would likely be the best forward home grown talent we'd have in our organization in 40 years, if we keep them of course.

 

[Rielly Good]

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
------------
3) Hanifin
4) Strome
5) Marner
6) Provorov
-------------
7) Barzal
8) Werenski
9) Rantanen
10) Crouse
11) Zacha
-------------
12) Konecny
13) Meier
14) Merkley
15) Svechnikov
16) Connor
17) White
18) Carlo
19) Kylington
20) Boeser

I'd be very happy with anyone from the second tier at Leaf's pick, and the last tier with NSH's pick.

If we get Mcdavid (obviously) or Marner and Carlo I am going to be jacked.

 

[silentbob37*]

Rask and Steen were left off of the list because I focused on the Leafs drafted outside of the 1st round. Neither was used as a part of a successful core, largely because they were traded before they flourished, which just further adds to the point that they aren't HOMEGROWN talent for the LEAFS.

Believe me, you don't want me to add the other teams first round picks to further destroy the Leafs list...

There is far more to the NHL than just drafting Franchise players, I hope you understand that.

I believe I did have Markov on the list, but you can go ahead and add Perreault and Harrison, it doesn't really help the cause.

You included late 1st's on your list for other teams.......

The Leafs have drafted good, important/core players in the past. Not the most of any team, and hte lack of franchise talent in that mix makes the group as a whole look a lot weaker, but again worst drafting team........as I pointed out, the last 10 years they have an above average success rate.

 

[X66]

You included late 1st's on your list for other teams.......

The Leafs have drafted good, important/core players in the past. Not the most of any team, and hte lack of franchise talent in that mix makes the group as a whole look a lot weaker, but again worst drafting team........as I pointed out, the last 10 years they have an above average success rate.

For one team, but they were home grown by the organization, not jettisoned away.

As for the second bolded quote, I stated they are historically bad, which I believe they are.

You shouldn't be infatuated with franchise players, there are many top end players on that list, as well as many other valuable NHL assets.

 

[silentbob37*]

For one team, but they were home grown by the organization, not jettisoned away.

As for the second bolded quote, I stated they are historically bad, which I believe they are.

You shouldn't be infatuated with franchise players, there are many top end players on that list, as well as many other valuable NHL assets.

As I already said, its hte lack of franchies talent int eh leafs pool that makes it look weaker. Take Subban out or Weber and Rinnie or Getzlaf and Perry......and those collections don't look significantly better or worse then what the Leafs have done. Add those guys in.......the teams are significantly better, and the the groups of prospects look significantly better.

 

[Bernier the Boats]

1) McDavid
2) Eichel
------------
3) Hanifin
4) Strome
5) Marner
6) Provorov
-------------
7) Barzal
8) Werenski
9) Rantanen
10) Crouse
11) Zacha
-------------
12) Konecny
13) Meier
14) Merkley
15) Svechnikov
16) Connor
17) White
18) Carlo
19) Kylington
20) Boeser

I'd be very happy with anyone from the second tier at Leaf's pick, and the last tier with NSH's pick.

Provorov on the same tier as Marner, Strome, and Hanifin

 

[BigWilly]

Provorov on the same tier as Marner, Strome, and Hanifin

Personally I believe that Provorov isn't far off from Hanifin.

I was also explicit about the purpose of the tiers, to show my preference.

 

[torontoteamfan]

Bruins:
Bergeron
Krejci
Lucic
Marchand

Ducks:
Perry(late first)
Getzlaf(late first)

Hawks:
Keith
Crawford
Byfuglien
Brouwer
Bickell
Bolland
Hjalmarsson

Kings:
Quick
Simmonds(used for trade that helped win a cup)
Toffoli

Habs:
Plekanec
Subban
Gallagher

Preds:
Weber
Rinne
Hornqvist(traded)
Franson
Josi
Smith
---

And that's just looking at some of the contending teams in the NHL right now, all within the last 15 years.

In the last 40 years, the only notable picks outside of the 1st round were Carlyle(lol), Leeman, T.Gill, Domi, Potvin, Modin, Berezin, Markov, Kaberle, S.Thornton, Mair, Ponikarovsky, Wellwood, White, Stajan, Kulemin, Stralman, Reimer, Holzer, Gunnarsson Stalberg and Hayes.

Simply pathetic, and that is 40 years compared to other teams 15...

And as I've stated, they have improved, as you can see by the players names, but how many players on that list would you consider elite? How many key core pieces on successful teams?

Historically, the Leafs are at the bottom of the barrel, but here's hoping that changes in the future.

I am with u buddy, it is absolutley shocking tht ppl in this board r not talking about how god awful our scouting staff is. The scary part is tht noone has been fired yet lool morrison stll being here is criminal. Idc how many picks u acquire by dealing kessel phaneuf etc if we r almost guaranteed to pick mediocre talent what's the point haha tear everything down shanny

 

[Maplebeasts]

Provorov on the same tier as Marner, Strome, and Hanifin

Yep. The over rating of Provorov continues. He's a damn good prospect and I'd be glad to take him in the top, but I prefer Werenski and Barzal. Having Provorov with Hanifin, Marner, and Strome is also a little off.

 

[Bernier the Boats]

Brandon goals for: 321. Most in the dub. Most goals in the Q is 276. The only CHL team that has scored more goals than Brandon this year is SSM at 327 (after they loaded up with an absurd amount of 95's).

Provorov's offensive ability is starting to become overstated. I like Provorov as much as the next guy, but this notion that his offense is on the same level as guys like Kylington and Werenski is not true.

 

[Shwaguy*]

How many of htose guys are franchise talents? Getzlaf, Perry, Keith, Subban, Weber.....thats about it (goalies a weird thing.....) You're talking like 5 players.

Bergeron too

 

[Shwaguy*]

I am with u buddy, it is absolutley shocking tht ppl in this board r not talking about how god awful our scouting staff is. The scary part is tht noone has been fired yet lool morrison stll being here is criminal. Idc how many picks u acquire by dealing kessel phaneuf etc if we r almost guaranteed to pick mediocre talent what's the point haha tear everything down shanny

Our drafting of late (Let's call it this decade) has been pretty good, although a couple flops with those late firsts hurt a bit.

Who knows, maybe we luck out and finally get our diamond in the rough in Brown.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

For our 2nd pick, here is a kid that I recently put on my wanted list. Think he deserves more attention.

Anthony Beauvillier a born leader.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/chl-top-prospects-game-anthony-beauvillier-a-born-leader/

 

[Sergei Berezin]

^ having trouble understanding why some people have him pegged in the second round. I imagine he's taken in the early 20s.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

^ having trouble understanding why some people have him pegged in the second round. I imagine he's taken in the early 20s.

Listed in the 2nd round on CSB mid-term. I definitely do not share that opinion. He's a first rounder to some scouts.

 

[ULF_55]

As I already said, its hte lack of franchies talent int eh leafs pool that makes it look weaker. Take Subban out or Weber and Rinnie or Getzlaf and Perry......and those collections don't look significantly better or worse then what the Leafs have done. Add those guys in.......the teams are significantly better, and the the groups of prospects look significantly better.

Currently, the Leafs don't have any 1st. line players they've drafted.

I'm not talking about top NHL players, I'm saying any 1st. line players period.

In the system, maybe Nylander.

Leafs need to hit a homerun this year, perhaps steal someone late in the first round.

Leafs are truly deserving of their place in the standings, but it might just get them a chance at their own Seguin.

 

[Menzinger]

The team needs to get some home runs in later round picks. Obviously that's very hard to do - but getting good players beyond the top ten of the draft will be key to building a solid core. Boston, Chicago, La all have those kinds of picks.

 

[Auston Matthews]

The way I see it with the forwards

McDavid
----------------

Eichel
------

Marner
--------




Strome