2015- A summer of dissapointment and incompetence?

[Evil Little]

I'm disappointed that there's dozens of LHD signed (I'm exaggerating) but only 1 top-4 capable one. That's a bad situation and nothing was done to remedy it.

It seems pretty clear that the intention is to move one of the three top 4 RHD to the left to address this.

I am growing concerned that TNSE's apparent strength in evaluating Junior talent is outweighed by a lack of ability to assess NHL talent. There are too many Ponikarovsky/Pavelec/Stuart/Thorburn/Stempniak type decisions for me to feel good about the brain trust.

You can add Setoguchi to that list, too, but there's also Frolik, Clitsome, Hutchinson, um Stempniak, and Stafford on the flip side, amongst others.

I think what we have learned is that Chevy is a mid-tier GM; not top-10, but probably not bottom-10 either.

A bit early to speculate on that, I think. He seems to be the only GM in the league who has been given the mandate to slowly develop without bottoming out. It's not going to look the same as every other team.

 

[Whileee]

I'd have to say i'd give him a C


I thought we did excellent at the draft

Losing Frolik was bad

Bringing back burmi draws that to about an even

Signing Stafford is maybe a slight negative, but the term makes it manageable

We did excellent at the draft which I loved.

We seem committed to giving the young guys a good shake which I love.

The blackmarks to me are

No replacement/resigning of one of stempniak/tilusty
No Ladd contract/movement
No Buff contract/movement

A favorable contract or trade to Buff or Ladd by the end of training camp would be worth one letter grade increase each.

A good moneypuck signing/camp invite for a replacement to stemp/tilusty would be worth moving that flat C to a C+


If the kids are unable to stick and either Halishuck, Fraser, or Peluso are on-ice regulars that'll quickly drop to a D or worse.


That's pretty much how i see it.

What if....

Copp's in for Slater.
Armia's in for Stempniak.
Ehlers is in for Tlusty.

I'm okay with that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wanted to give a C- or a D+ but it is not an option so I gave a C. Some of the criticisms are valid and should be discussed. The post is not about the draft so extra credit shouldn't be attributed to a solid draft by the Jets imo - edit - well I guess it's about the summer so I guess a solid draft should count. Takes it from a D+ or C- to a C.

The Fro situation was mishandled badly going back to last year. I disagree that it was a win because it was a rental situation. He was an asset that should have been signed or leveraged. It's not like he went for pricing way over market value. Fro = depth. The kind of thing you see on playoff teams.

Stafford is a moderate over payment. Chevy felt he had to do it otherwise his trade with Buffalo looks like a bust (at least until a prospect from the deal blossoms in a few years).

Peluso and Halischuk - these guys don't matter one way or another. A lot of time is spent talking about them like they matter. As players they don't. The contracts, however, you overpay Peluso a couple hundred grand and then dicker with Fro for the same amount and let him walk.

Burmi - meh.

I don't really like Tlusty, but for the money wow. I do think Stemp will take a 1 year deal from someone and it should have been us. Out of Stemp and Tlusty we should have worked a deal with Stemp. If we want to make the playoffs and win a series or two we need better depth. I'd rather have Stemp or Tlusty over Peluso any day. We have enough size and toughness already. EDIT - I just saw Stemp signed a PTO with the Devils

Ladd - they telegraphed an imminent deal a few months ago. Hasn't happened but I think it will.

Buff - they should have moved him. Looks like it is being managed like Frolik and the next thing you know we have no Buff and no assets in return. Trade him. If you're not going to sign him, trade him. If you're not going to trade him, sign him. ------ Stop worrying about the cap - we aren't even close and we won't be two years from now either.

I am really on the fence with Chevy. I was a big critic last year. The Buffalo trade looks good and were strong down the stretch and made the playoffs - awesome. So Chevy is getting a ton of credit. But I am still conflicted here. For the first time we had league average goaltending. Why did it take so long to be 'average' and will it happen again this year? If not, does Chevy deserve blame? Well, if he gets credit for making the playoffs then yes he needs to share the blame if we don't.

First bolded - Yes!
Second bolded - we aren't close to the cap but if we don't move Buff we certainly will be next year and for years after. Buff may or may not be worth it. That is obviously a long discussion.
Third bolded - Yup again. Things have to go both ways.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Chevy gets a B from me too. I agree with all your comments.

And regarding Frolik, by all accounts the Jets offer was at least as good as the deal he signed with the Flames. He wanted out.

All accounts? I haven't seen anything to even hint that was the case. Just no! All accounts say we easily could have had him last summer.

 

[Grind]

What if....

Copp's in for Slater.
Armia's in for Stempniak.
Ehlers is in for Tlusty.

I'm okay with that.

That's what's got them a C from me.

C+ if there was at least one insurance player.

Those ranking drop if Halishuck and Fraser are those insurance players and we end up needing them.

 

[JetsFan815]

45% Giving Chevy a C or less. Damning numbers for Chevy

 

[Grind]

45% Giving Chevy a C or less. Damning numbers for Chevy

less then half providing an average or below rating is "damning"? I consider C a positive vote. C is generally considered "average or slightly below average" is it not?

how about:


"81%" give Chevy a passing grade (C or higher). Fantastic numbers for Chevy!

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm torn on this one:

On the one hand, Chevy and his team deserve credit for an impressive drafting resume and making the playoffs last year when many of us (myself very much included) felt they would be on the outside looking in.

On the other hand, there is no question in my mind that this team is, as another poster pointed out, worse than the one that finished the season last year. Worse still, is Chevy's apparent disinterest in improving it, especially when veterans all over the league are available for the one year deals that won't impact the Ladd/Buff/Trouba/Scheif/Lowry discussions.

I am growing concerned that TNSE's apparent strength in evaluating Junior talent is outweighed by a lack of ability to assess NHL talent. There are too many Ponikarovsky/Pavelec/Stuart/Thorburn/Stempniak type decisions for me to feel good about the brain trust. Couple that with some questionable in-game personal management by Maurice and I am concerned.

The Kane thing is interesting because the return is good in the circumstances, but Chevy himself bears some responsibility for creating the circumstances. A drunk driver who causes a crash, but then heroically pulls a victim out the the flames of their car is not totally a hero.

I think what we have learned is that Chevy is a mid-tier GM; not top-10, but probably not bottom-10 either.

I'm going to have alot of trouble in future not thinking of Chevy as the drunken hero of GMs. Perfect analogy.

I think what we should have learned is that even though Chevy is successfully building a competitive team here he is not doing it without making his share of mistakes along the way. He has stumbled a couple of times and seems to have some blind spots but no one is perfect. Overall the team keeps getting better each year. It could probably be progressing a little faster but it could also be going the other way. Buff/Ladd could keep it going or turn it backwards. We will have to continue to wait on that one.

 

[JetsFan815]

less then half providing an average or below rating is "damning"? I consider C a positive vote. C is generally considered "average or slightly below average" is it not?

how about:


"81%" give Chevy a passing grade (C or higher). Fantastic numbers for Chevy!

C is a positive grade? Since when? Would you be happy getting a C in university? I graduated just a year and a half ago and between me and my friends, A/A+ is good, a B+ is acceptable if limited to 1 course a semester, B is a major disappointment and anything below B is essentially failing. At UManitoba in most honours programs you'd have to retake the class if you get a C and that class is a pre-req for another class that you wanna take.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

C is a positive grade? Since when? Would you be happy getting a C in university? I graduated just a year and a half ago and between me and my friends, A/A+ is good, a B+ is acceptable if limited to 1 course a semester, B is a major disappointment and anything below B is essentially failing. At UManitoba in most honours programs you'd have to retake the class if you get a C and that class is a pre-req for another class that you wanna take.

C is average. Period. That makes it the most likely grade to be achieved by most people most of the time. When judged against your peers C is good.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I am somewhat in the middle here. I'm convinced that some things have been done wrong this off-season. Frolik should have been kept instead of Stafford, although the Frolik thing goes back to last off-season. Stempniak should have been signed. Peluso should not have been. None of those things add up to a completely botched off-season though and none of them would make much difference to the bringing in of prospects. Stempniak on the 4th line would have kept one prospect out of the lineup until there was an injury. In the meantime that PB time could have been rotated among the rookies. It is not a bad thing for a rookie to get a little time watching and learning. Injuries would keep that total PB time small anyway.

The big issues that will determine the success or failure for this off-season are Ladd and Buff. None of the things that should have been accomplished by now have been done so it does not look good right now.

I didn't vote in this poll and won't until the Ladd/Buff situation becomes more clear.

Actually we have no idea what has happened and what will happen. No one here knows what should or should not have happened. We don't have any clue as to what is going on, as it should be when two sides are negotiating a big deal. For anyone to say that something should have been done by now, is pretty silly since we know literally nothing about the negotiations or lack of them. Likewise, we don't have any way of knowing if it looks good or bad.

There are very few people who know what is going on inside these negotiations, and I don't think any post here.

 

[SensibleGuy]

C is a positive grade? Since when? Would you be happy getting a C in university? I graduated just a year and a half ago and between me and my friends, A/A+ is good, a B+ is acceptable if limited to 1 course a semester, B is a major disappointment and anything below B is essentially failing. At UManitoba in most honours programs you'd have to retake the class if you get a C and that class is a pre-req for another class that you wanna take.

you can set whatever standard you want for yourself. And Honours programs are, well...honours programs right? They are called that for a reason. lol... Doesn't change the fact that C is a passing grade. I'd give Chevy a C+ myself and I think he's done all right.

 

[CaptainChef]

C is average. Period. That makes it the most likely grade to be achieved by most people most of the time. When judged against your peers C is good.

C might be average to some but read the comments of those who gave him a C -- generally not very satisfied. Those that gave him a A-B were happy that he has done enough; the rest are definitely left wanting.

My take is on it is that 45% are unhappy with the job that Chevy has done this summer.

 

[Evil Little]

I'm going to have alot of trouble in future not thinking of Chevy as the drunken hero of GMs. Perfect analogy.

Tim Murray sold the farm for a 2LW, 2/3RHD, and a 2C and Cheveldayoff is the drunk one.

Sweeney trades a young star then pretends it's because he is "upitty", and Cheveldayoff's the drunk one.

Kekalainan's biggest move last year was trading for the worst contract in hockey because he secretly had a worse one. And Cheveldayoff is the drunk one...

 

[Howard Chuck]

What if....

Copp's in for Slater.
Armia's in for Stempniak.
Ehlers is in for Tlusty.

I'm okay with that.

Fine with me, that's D&D.

 

[SensibleGuy]

C might be average to some but read the comments of those who gave him a C -- generally not very satisfied. Those that gave him a A-B were happy that he has done enough; the rest are definitely left wanting.

My take is on it is that 45% are unhappy with the job that Chevy has done this summer.

sorry, but if you read most of those comments they go something like "I wish this or that had been done but overall I'm giving him a C." So yeah, nobody is saying a C is unreservedly positive. Its "passable."

 

[Edgar Halliwax]

All accounts? I haven't seen anything to even hint that was the case. Just no! All accounts say we easily could have had him last summer.

Yes Snerd, by all accounts. For starters, listen to the interview Chevy gave right after they learned Frolik signed with the Flames....

 

[EpicGingy]

Disappointing? To some extent. However that can be washed away provided our young players perform well.

Incompetent? No, I wouldn't say that.

 

[Grind]

C is a positive grade? Since when? Would you be happy getting a C in university? I graduated just a year and a half ago and between me and my friends, A/A+ is good, a B+ is acceptable if limited to 1 course a semester, B is a major disappointment and anything below B is essentially failing. At UManitoba in most honours programs you'd have to retake the class if you get a C and that class is a pre-req for another class that you wanna take.

Since always?

It's a pass grade.

I'm sorry if a pass grade isn't good enough for you, but it is a pass grade

You get a degree and diploma with a C.

Do you get an honours degree? I guess not, but that's for the top tier of performers is it not?

Don't move the goal posts.

Currently, 18% of the polled audience has given him a failing grade. That's not alarming. It's certainly not Damning.

Equating chevy to require the same level of approval you demanded from yourself in your honours degree is kind of like saying you won't be happy unless he's recogonized/considered as a top 7 GM in the league.

If that's your measure for success, then yes, the votes are "damning" against that, but with 30 teams in the league anywhere in the 17-10 range is probably acceptable to me.

The margins are small enough that even bad gm's will occasionally luck out/stumble upon a move or two that put's their team in the upper echelon.

I won't argue, a C is not a ringing endorsement, but as Many people gave him a B as they did a C, both of which are almost double a failing grade independently.

Your not alone in your distress, but you are definitely not a majority.

 

[AWSAA]

Well, I'll give Chevy credit for this. He's done a great job of selling patience, avoiding expectations for the club (in other words, promoting long-term job security for himself). 5 years in now, and he still hasn't addressed obvious holes. Pavelec is still our starter, Mark Stuart remains on the 2nd defensive pairing, continues to employ a useless 4th line, retained Stafford instead of upgrading that spot in our top six/nine.

LLW, Byfuglien, and Enstrom have all pretty much peaked by now. Two of them could be lost for nothing in less than 10 months and counting. To think we could actually regress this season & next (should Ladd and/or Buff walk) is a disturbing thought.

 

[Whileee]

Grades on HF Jets for Chevy are sort of like the Hockey's Future prospect grades. I never really know how to interpret them.

 

[sipowicz]

Chevy seems to be banking on the young guys which is a gamble, I'll reserve judgment a quarter way into the season. We all know there are two directions which this could go.

 

[Grind]

Chevy seems to be banking on the young guys which is a gamble, I'll reserve judgment a quarter way into the season. We all know there are two directions which this could go.

exactly.


Though from my usual probability/logic it would say that having a couple more dice in your hand (ie: a stempniak/tlusty) would be mitigate the chances of it going south.

I'm pretty ok with it though, it's a risk i agree with as i'm excited to see the young guys take a step.

 

[Whileee]

Chevy seems to be banking on the young guys which is a gamble, I'll reserve judgment a quarter way into the season. We all know there are two directions which this could go.

A quarter of the way into the season might be a bit early. Lowry and Scheifele both looked pretty raw after the first 20 games, but were really strong in the last half of their rookies seasons.

 

[sipowicz]

Aside from Burmi, Matt Fraser was the only guy Chevy brought in with NHL experience, with 9 goals in 60 games last year and he has pretty good size he could probably help to upgrade the 4th line.

Grind; Chevy probably should have brought back Stemp, losing (dumping) Tlusty really wasn't a big deal.