GDT: 2015-16 Training Camp and Preseason Thread

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Avsboy

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Dec 12, 2006
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Roy is for the most part a very good coach. He stresses speed and offense, and gets along with the players and makes them better. Think about EJ, for example.

He does have negatives. He has loyalty to his vets, even those that aren't that good. He targets certain players, and some of those targets have not been good additions. If the team is winning, he sticks with the team.

By all means it's possible Roy has changed. He did have those negatives, though.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
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Roy is for the most part a very good coach. He stresses speed and offense, and gets along with the players and makes them better. Think about EJ, for example.

He does have negatives. He has loyalty to his vets, even if they aren't that good. He targets certain players, and some of those targets have not been good additions. If the team is winning, he sticks with the team.

By all means it's possible Roy has changed. He did have those negatives, though.

I feel I addressed this when I mentioned that the lack of depth. Aside from Siemens or Noreau, both of whom were injured at times that it was thought they'd be getting called up last year.

A lot more players were brought in that he and Sakic want. They had to ride out some of the prospects/players that didn't fit with their vision. I'm not saying I believe 100% that the same old guys we rag on will be waived and sent packing, but I DO believe there's a better chance of that happening than there was the last 2 seasons because of the depth that's been brought in.
 

Avsboy

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I feel I addressed this when I mentioned that the lack of depth. Aside from Siemens or Noreau, both of whom were injured at times that it was thought they'd be getting called up last year.

A lot more players were brought in that he and Sakic want.

I would phrase it as Sakic and Roy have improved their ability to identify depth pieces. When Roykic came in, the depth additions were Cliche, Holden, Guenin, Talbot, Bordeleau and later Stuart, Redmond, Berra (I could be missing someone). That is partly due to lack of available options out there. But Avs missed plenty of great opportunities to add better pieces to surround the core.

Look at what they've done recently. They've added Beauchemin (not a core player IMO), Gormley, Comeau, and Skille. Looks much better. They've also engaged with Europe much more, which is huge.

I'm leaving it open that, on top of identifying better pieces, they may also change their ways and allow for the better players to play. Maybe Roy will make big changes to the team even if it is winning. It's possible.

I certainly hope that Gormley is given an opening night spot over Holden or Stuart, and that Everberg or Skille get a spot over McLeod. The better players are clearly the better players.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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That's a good way to put it RL. And I can see that its a lot like how Roy doesn't want to change his lineup when they are winning, so they won the division with these guys and I can see it maybe led to a bit of a honeymoon period with them where it was all about keeping the whole team together and I do believe they see the team dynamic as more important than some other orgs do. Some teams take much more of a "you are just a number" approach. Some teams call guys up and down 10+ times a year. Some teams bring in a dozen guys on PTO they have no intention of keeping. Maybe they realized now that they need to have better in certain areas. There's just so many bodies now something has to give. I don't think they entirely will turn over a new leaf, coaches will forever like safe veterans.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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Isn't that every coach though? They cling to their veterans and favorites. At least Roy isn't old school to go with it.

I'm not a fan of Holden or Guenin, but if you think about it, loyalty to their vets is a common critique amongst the best coaches. Bowman, Babcock, etc.... There's a reason for it, and it has to do with being experienced in what makes up a good "team." Roy's been around long enough to have learned that same lesson.

In a lesser role, the vet with his weaknesses doesn't hurt the team as much as some might think, but he helps the team in areas many fans might not be aware of.

Personally I don't think that applies to Holden, but despite me not being a fan, I can see that possibly applying to Guenin to an extent, and even more so guys like McLeod and Stuart, whom I think are very undervalued.

Just to be clear though, my ideal situation is Gormley-Stuart making up the bottom pair, and Holden and Guenin being scratches while Redmond is waived/sent down.
 
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Papa Francouz

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Nov 25, 2013
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The only thing more that I would ask for from training camp is to see the NCAA prospects in action, but obviously that's something that is out of the hands of the Avs. I just really want to see Compher in a scrimmage/game atmosphere, as well as Greer. I think a Greer-Bleackley-Compher checking line is a real possibility in the future, and I would love to see those guys skate together.
 

Jarey Curry

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May 2, 2015
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I would phrase it as Sakic and Roy have improved their ability to identify depth pieces. When Roykic came in, the depth additions were Cliche, Holden, Guenin, Talbot, Bordeleau and later Stuart, Redmond, Berra (I could be missing someone). That is partly due to lack of available options out there. But Avs missed plenty of great opportunities to add better pieces to surround the core.

I think that an offseason earlier, why they weren't so active was because they were winning so why fix something like that? Then came the reality on the next season, but without 112 points roykic would have surely been more active then
 

Steerpike

We are never give up
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Hopefully they take home the message that they can't ever be complaisant with the team they have assembled. There is always room for growth.
 

InjuredChoker

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I'm not a fan of Holden or Guenin, but if you think about it, loyalty to their vets is a common critique amongst the best coaches. Bowman, Babcock, etc.... There's a reason for it, and it has to do with being experienced in what makes up a good "team." Roy's been around long enough to have learned that same lesson.

In a lesser role, the vet with his weaknesses doesn't hurt the team as much as some might think, but he helps the team in areas many fans might not be aware of.

Personally I don't think that applies to Holden, but despite me not being a fan, I can see that possibly applying to Guenin to an extent, and even more so guys like McLeod and Stuart, whom I think are very undervalued.

Just to be clear though, my ideal situation is Gormley-Stuart making up the bottom pair, and Holden and Guenin being scratches while Redmond is waived/sent down.

holden and guenin wouldn't qualify as vets that bowman and babcock were (too) loyal for, though.
 

Freudian

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Jul 3, 2003
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Even if there has been a lack of options before due to lack of depth and many injuries, that's no longer the case. We will see how deep Roy's loyalty to his Scrub Club runs.
 

gorgos

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Regarding Andreas Martinsen's tan. His biological father was half-Ugandan, half Indian. He has never met his father however, and was raised by his mother and his step-dad.
 

cgf

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I think that an offseason earlier, why they weren't so active was because they were winning so why fix something like that? Then came the reality on the next season, but without 112 points roykic would have surely been more active then

I think preparing for the Summer of ROR was a bigger factor than being content with the team as was.
 

RockLobster

King in the North
Jul 5, 2003
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I would phrase it as Sakic and Roy have improved their ability to identify depth pieces. When Roykic came in, the depth additions were Cliche, Holden, Guenin, Talbot, Bordeleau and later Stuart, Redmond, Berra (I could be missing someone). That is partly due to lack of available options out there. But Avs missed plenty of great opportunities to add better pieces to surround the core.

When I think of "Depth", I think of it as "options". Nearly everyone you listed were players that were immediately plugged into the lineup when they came to the Avalanche, usually because they were "better" than the players that would have otherwise played.

Now, yes we have those same guys you mentioned, but on top of that Everberg, Rendulic, Martinsen (who, through the 2-Day camp, appears as if he'll be given some good opportunities), Comeau (replacing McGinn who we practically didn't have at all last year), Winchester (who I still believe was meant to take Cliche's spot), Hamilton, Hishon (some love him, some don't "get the hype"...I think he's more in the middle), and perhaps even Skille. And that's just forwards, and that's not mentioning Rantanen. On the Defensive side, I think it's even more prevalent because the only 2 players that would have been worth a call-up last year, Siemens & Noreau, were injured at the times we would have been looking at calling them up. But now, we have Zadorov in the Top-4, have Gormley who is likely to at least make the opening night Roster, and then Bigras, Geertsen, Siemens, and Noreau as players who could potentially see time with the Avs (Geertsen perhaps not, but I don't think there's a doubt that he'll be a "favorite" of Roy's)...of course, some bad things would have to happen for them to see time with the Avs, but the point I was making is that they would be better players to bring up than the likes they'd had in the past (Hello Karl Stollery!)

Just saying in the past, it's possible (not sure how likely though), that Roy played at least SOME of these guys because the alternatives weren't as good as they are. I think we forget sometimes that our depth guys we would bring up in case of injury were players like DVG (nothing against him, but he was nothing special) and Stollery. In 2 years, the Avs have come pretty far in replacing the depth throughout their system. So, like I said, it may not happen, but I believe we're starting to see more of how Sakic and Roy want this team built, and with the newer players they've brought in, there's more of a chance now, than in the last 2 years, that some of those scrubs we complain about could lose their spots.
 

StayAtHomeAv

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May 20, 2014
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Roy is for the most part a very good coach. He stresses speed and offense, and gets along with the players and makes them better. Think about EJ, for example.

He does have negatives. He has loyalty to his vets, even those that aren't that good. He targets certain players, and some of those targets have not been good additions. If the team is winning, he sticks with the team.

By all means it's possible Roy has changed. He did have those negatives, though.

He isn't that loyal. He traded away Talbot, a guy he targeted to bring in, for a Rookie. He let Hedja walk and brought in Gormley. He tried to replace Cliche last year. He didn't keep his arguably favorite player because of a million dollars or so. He had no problem putting Berra on a very short leash. Benoit wasnt extended. Guenin or Redmond will be off the team this year.

Maybe he just thinks more highly of Stuart, Holden and McLeod than fans do and it has nothing to do with loyalty.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
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Denver
burgundy-review.com
On Grigorenko and Rantanen, a lot has been written about them just the last few pages. We are also going to record a podcast tonight and cover it as well. In short, Rantanen has looked like he can play with NHL players. Grigorenko might have been the best player in camp over the two days.

Thanks for the info gorgos.
 

tucker3434

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On Grigorenko and Rantanen, a lot has been written about them just the last few pages. We are also going to record a podcast tonight and cover it as well. In short, Rantanen has looked like he can play with NHL players. Grigorenko might have been the best player in camp over the two days.

Thanks for the info gorgos.

Not surprised but thrilled to hear it. Hope they both continue it today and over the preseason.
 
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