2015-16 Roster Thread - Preseason Edition

[Ducks DVM]

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[The Midnight Burrito]

I'll start the thread by saying I don't like the three line theory. Getz/Perry/Kesler on different lines. I think it's a recipe for not having enough dominance on the ice when we need it.

 

[AngelDuck]

Stewart is going to be fine in a depth role, I just have always liked Santorelli more. He's our underrated depth pickup IMO.

Stewart will get his usual 35 points, 15 goals...lot of physical play too.

He's at least as good as Palmieri, if not better

I think the speculation about his work ethic to this point is being overblown. He's just not clicking yet. It's early, it happens. we have to wait until game 10 to judge any veteran

 

[Sojourn]

We're either ignoring what might be going on under the hood or we're not. There are lots of ways leadership can manifest. I can also invent a thousand reasons why Stewart may not look as if he's not working up to Sojourn's standards. We can't know, obviously. But we're much more willing to speculate sometimes.

Go ahead. Give me ten reasons why Stewart doesn't look like he's working hard. Is he economical? Fluid? Just that good? Or is it simply that preseason doesn't matter, ignoring the fact that Stewart's work ethic is well known to be questionable. I mean, if you're going to condescend, go all out man. Let's hear it.

Leadership and work ethic are simply two different things. Would you question someone's goal scoring behind the scenes? Their skating? I don't know why it bothers you why I'd question his work ethic, but say that we don't know about leadership. Is it because it's Fowler? Because having viewed Fowler, I'd say he isn't a particularly physical player. Do I need to go behind the scenes for that? I'd also say his wrist shot is pretty weak. Behind the scenes? No? Yes? I mean, come on, dude. Some things are just going to be apparent on the ice. Some things aren't.

Edit: I'm not saying Stewart isn't a good player. I'm not saying he can't have a good season for us. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that a player, who is known for having questionable work ethic, has come to camp and not really shown he's willing to change his tune. If it helps, I said the same thing about Penner, so this isn't anything I have against Stewart. Hell, it still bothers me when Getzlaf gets lazy too. I'm not sure what you expect here. Am I just not allowed to be unhappy with a player at this point?

 

[snarktacular]

Stewart almost had 40 points last year, he is not on his way out of the league. it's pre-season, it doesn't matter.

Chris Stewart last year, not on his way out of the league: 81 gp, 14 goals, 36 points.

Dustin Penner 13-14, on his way out of the league: 67 gp, 14 goals, 35 points. (aka higher ppg)

edit: Dany Heatley 13-14, on his way out of the league: 76 gp, 12 goals, 28 points.

 

[AngelDuck]

Chris Stewart last year: 81 gp, 14 goals, 36 points.

Dustin Penner 13-14, his last year before out of the league: 67 gp, 14 goals, 35 points. (aka higher ppg)

Kind of hard to compare. Stewart played most his games on the dumpster fire Sabres while Penner got to play with P & G for a good portion of his points.

I think Stewart is a more capable all around depth player, and he's only 27 whereas Penner was 30+

 

[KatellaKid]

Go ahead. Give me ten reasons why Stewart doesn't look like he's working hard. Is he economical? Fluid? Just that good? Or is it simply that preseason doesn't matter, ignoring the fact that Stewart's work ethic is well known to be questionable. I mean, if you're going to condescend, go all out man. Let's hear it.

Leadership and work ethic are simply two different things. Would you question someone's goal scoring behind the scenes? Their skating? I don't know why it bothers you why I'd question his work ethic, but say that we don't know about leadership. Is it because it's Fowler? Because having viewed Fowler, I'd say he isn't a particularly physical player. Do I need to go behind the scenes for that? I'd also say his wrist shot is pretty weak. Behind the scenes? No? Yes? I mean, come on, dude. Some things are just going to be apparent on the ice. Some things aren't.

Edit: I'm not saying Stewart isn't a good player. I'm not saying he can't have a good season for us. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that a player, who is known for having questionable work ethic, has come to camp and not really shown he's willing to change his tune. If it helps, I said the same thing about Penner, so this isn't anything I have against Stewart. Hell, it still bothers me when Getzlaf gets lazy too. I'm not sure what you expect here. Am I just not allowed to be unhappy with a player at this point?

Oh, the irony....

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I mean, if you're going to condescend, go all out man. Let's hear it.

Go ahead. Give me ten reasons why Stewart doesn't look like he's working hard. Is he economical? Fluid? Just that good? Or is it simply that preseason doesn't matter, ignoring the fact that Stewart's work ethic is well known to be questionable.

Sure.

1. He's slow to adjust to coaching changes.
2. He's having trouble adjusting to the new system.
3. He's having trouble communicating with his line mates.
4. He breaks in new equipment slowly.
5. He's in great shape.
6. He's been told not to sweat the games and concentrate on the system.
7. He has perceived from context that he need not sweat the games, and simply concentrate on the system.
8. He's following Getzlaf's lead.
9. He misses his friends.
10. Boudreau hasn't found an effective way of connecting with him yet.

No idea if any of that's true. I doubt any of it's true. He's probably being lazy. He is fluid, though. And in good shape. His prior failings may be known, but that's true for every player. Even young defensemen.

Leadership and work ethic are simply two different things.

They are. How does one manifest in a way that eliminates doubt and one doesn't?

Would you question someone's goal scoring behind the scenes? Their skating? I don't know why it bothers you why I'd question his work ethic, but say that we don't know about leadership. Is it because it's Fowler? Because having viewed Fowler, I'd say he isn't a particularly physical player. Do I need to go behind the scenes for that? I'd also say his wrist shot is pretty weak. Behind the scenes? No? Yes? I mean, come on, dude. Some things are just going to be apparent on the ice. Some things aren't.

You're presuming a character flaw based on what you see. Not that he's not skating hard - you (and many) made the leap that he's not skating hard because he has a poor work ethic. I'm not saying that's a bad leap to make. There are lots of examples of good leaps for all kinds of players. Some we (me included) make and some we don't. You can stick to your guns and swear to me that it's just different, darn it! But it isn't. It's sophistry either way.

Stewart's laziness and Fowler's timidity are both fair assumptions. One has traction. That interests me. I'm not offended on either player's behalf.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

Kind of hard to compare. Stewart played most his games on the dumpster fire Sabres while Penner got to play with P & G for a good portion of his points.

I think Stewart is a more capable all around depth player, and he's only 27 whereas Penner was 30+

Penner also was habitually fat and not a great skater to begin with. All the optics were against him.

 

[Sojourn]

Oh, the irony....

Yeah, it really isn't.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

Chris Stewart last year, not on his way out of the league: 81 gp, 14 goals, 36 points.

Dustin Penner 13-14, on his way out of the league: 67 gp, 14 goals, 35 points. (aka higher ppg)

edit: Dany Heatley 13-14, on his way out of the league: 76 gp, 12 goals, 28 points.

stewart can skate, both of those guys can barely move
there is probably more to penner being out of the league than we know

 

[Sojourn]

Sure.

1. He's slow to adjust to coaching changes.
2. He's having trouble adjusting to the new system.
3. He's having trouble communicating with his line mates.
4. He breaks in new equipment slowly.
5. He's in great shape.
6. He's been told not to sweat the games and concentrate on the system.
7. He has perceived from context that he need not sweat the games, and simply concentrate on the system.
8. He's following Getzlaf's lead.
9. He misses his friends.
10. Boudreau hasn't found an effective way of connecting with him yet.

No idea if any of that's true. I doubt any of it's true. He's probably being lazy. He is fluid, though. And in good shape. His prior failings may be known, but that's true for every player. Even young defensemen.

Is being in good shape actually an excuse for not working? Seems the opposite to me.

Those are all decent enough reasons, though unlikely. I do consider past precedent here. I also consider that Getzlaf sends a bad message sometimes, and I've mentioned that before.

They are. How does one manifest in a way that eliminates doubt and one doesn't?

I didn't say they did. For all I know, Stewart is doing everything he's being asked off the ice. Hell, he could be doing everything he's being asked on the ice too.

You're presuming a character flaw based on what you see. Not that he's not skating hard - you (and many) made the leap that he's not skating hard because he has a poor work ethic. I'm not saying that's a bad leap to make. There are lots of examples of good leaps for all kinds of players. Some we (me included) make and some we don't. You can stick to your guns and swear to me that it's just different, darn it! But it isn't. It's sophistry either way.

Stewart's laziness and Fowler's timidity are both fair assumptions. One has traction. That interests me. I'm not offended on either player's behalf.

Actually, I'm not assuming he isn't skating hard because he has poor work ethic. At least not entirely. But I absolutely feel that a player with questionable work ethic should have something to prove. Maybe Boudreau doesn't agree with me. I haven't got a clue. But yeah, this is obviously my opinion here. I don't think Stewart is working hard enough, and I don't like it.

 

[snarktacular]

Go ahead. Give me ten reasons why Stewart doesn't look like he's working hard. Is he economical? Fluid? Just that good? Or is it simply that preseason doesn't matter, ignoring the fact that Stewart's work ethic is well known to be questionable. I mean, if you're going to condescend, go all out man. Let's hear it.

Leadership and work ethic are simply two different things. Would you question someone's goal scoring behind the scenes? Their skating? I don't know why it bothers you why I'd question his work ethic, but say that we don't know about leadership. Is it because it's Fowler? Because having viewed Fowler, I'd say he isn't a particularly physical player. Do I need to go behind the scenes for that? I'd also say his wrist shot is pretty weak. Behind the scenes? No? Yes? I mean, come on, dude. Some things are just going to be apparent on the ice. Some things aren't.

Edit: I'm not saying Stewart isn't a good player. I'm not saying he can't have a good season for us. I'm saying that I don't like the fact that a player, who is known for having questionable work ethic, has come to camp and not really shown he's willing to change his tune. If it helps, I said the same thing about Penner, so this isn't anything I have against Stewart. Hell, it still bothers me when Getzlaf gets lazy too. I'm not sure what you expect here. Am I just not allowed to be unhappy with a player at this point?

The way I read it is less that you aren't allowed to question Stewart's effort and more others should be allowed to question Cam's leadership.

edit: to phrase it bodaciously, why is one allowed a white knight and the other is not

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I didn't say they did. For all I know, Stewart is doing everything he's being asked off the ice. Hell, he could be doing everything he's being asked on the ice too.

And, scene.

 

[Sojourn]

The way I read it is less that you aren't allowed to question Stewart's effort and more others should be allowed to question Cam's leadership.

They can. I've never said people can't question his leadership. All I said on the subject is that we aren't really in a position to see for sure.

Personally, I don't really think he has been one. Beauchemin is the guy who I've felt was our leader on the blue line. I just concede that leadership is the type of thing that varies person to person, and a great deal of it is going to take place in the locker room or on the bench. Niedermayer was a lead by example guy. Someone like Pronger is known for being vocal.

I do think the fact Boudreau has said he wants him to step up is pretty telling that he hasn't been as involved in the process as they want him to be.

Edit: Interestingly put. But I'm not going to defend Fowler's leadership, or lack thereof. Unless it's just stupid stuff, like when Getzlaf was being an idiot on the ice, I'm not really going to say much about leadership except that we don't know.

 

[snarktacular]

Kind of hard to compare. Stewart played most his games on the dumpster fire Sabres while Penner got to play with P & G for a good portion of his points.

I think Stewart is a more capable all around depth player, and he's only 27 whereas Penner was 30+

All that is true, I'm more pointing out that the "almost 40 points," the sole evidence provided in the OP, clearly isn't enough.

 

[Paul4587]

I think Stewart is a more capable all around depth player, and he's only 27 whereas Penner was 30+

Not to mention Penner was seemingly more interested in his DJing career and off ice activities than he was playing hockey.

 

[AngelDuck]

All that is true, I'm more pointing out that the "almost 40 points," the sole evidence provided in the OP, clearly isn't enough.

Yeah that makes sense. I get what you're saying now.

Penner also was habitually fat and not a great skater to begin with. All the optics were against him.

Not to mention Penner was seemingly more interested in his DJing career and off ice activities than he was playing hockey.

Yep. Penner's time was up for multiple reasons that don't really apply to Stewart at this point

 

[TheJoeMan]

Stewart has played all of two preseason games. He's not on a try-out or two-way deal so he knows he's going to be in the lineup. Plus he's mainly been practicing on the top line. That all tells me he knows he doesn't have to fight for his spot in the lineup so when the games really matter is when we should really be concerned if this kind of effort persists. Would it be nice if he was skating his ass off right now and making an impression? Sure. But that wouldn't mean anything either. I'd rather he not shoot his wad and risk an injury in meaningless games. That goes for all of the veterans. Some guys just need to be on always like Cogs and Kes. Look at Perry and Getzlaf. Those two aren't moving their feet at all nor should they be. It doesn't help Stewart's case that he has a history of lazy behavior so the optics are troubling but that still doesn't matter. When the games actually count and we have 17 other guys all working as hard as they can then we can really be concerned.

 

[alcolol]

Stewart has played all of two preseason games. He's not on a try-out or two-way deal so he knows he's going to be in the lineup. Plus he's mainly been practicing on the top line. That all tells me he knows he doesn't have to fight for his spot in the lineup so when the games really matter is when we should really be concerned if this kind of effort persists. Would it be nice if he was skating his ass off right now and making an impression? Sure. But that wouldn't mean anything either. I'd rather he not shoot his wad and risk an injury in meaningless games. That goes for all of the veterans. Some guys just need to be on always like Cogs and Kes. Look at Perry and Getzlaf. Those two aren't moving their feet at all nor should they be. It doesn't help Stewart's case that he has a history of lazy behavior so the optics are troubling but that still doesn't matter. When the games actually count and we have 17 other guys all working as hard as they can then we can really be concerned.

I'm a firm believer that you play the way you practice. If you're to say preseason games are merely for practice, then his effort level thus far would be a sign of things to come.

How can you logically say Kesler and Cogliano always need to be "on" but Stewart doesn't? It's a double standard that frankly doesn't make any sense. He should realize that he's being counted on for production when he's playing on the first line alongside Getzlaf.

 

[TheJoeMan]

I'm a firm believer that you play the way you practice. If you're to say preseason games are merely for practice, then his effort level thus far would be a sign of things to come.

How can you logically say Kesler and Cogliano always need to be "on" but Stewart doesn't? It's a double standard that frankly doesn't make any sense. Him playing on the first line with Getzlaf should be enough for him to realize that he's being counted on for production.

I'm not saying that I think Kesler and Cogliano always need to be on, I'm saying based on watching them play meaningless games they themselves feel they always have to be on. Ever play a pickup game and there's that guy who's playing like it's Game 7? They're those kind of players. They don't know how to play the game other than at full-throttle. Some players don't need to play like that to be effective.

But if what you're saying is true then Getzlaf and Perry should be terrible players. Perry was first star the other night and he was terrible other than his two goals which were all Rakell. The thing is we know those two step up when it matters. The problem is we don't know that yet with Stewart. I mean we shouldn't be at least a little concerned but a couple of lazy efforts in some preseason games is hardly enough to indict a player before he's had a chance to really prove himself.

 

[Duck Off]

I'll start the thread by saying I don't like the three line theory. Getz/Perry/Kesler on different lines. I think it's a recipe for not having enough dominance on the ice when we need it.

I agree. IMO, we lack too many scoring wingers to pull it off. I think it would be doable if we had another scoring winger (JVR or Hall for example). However, we're not going to do well icing a lineup with a top line of Sekac-Getzlaf-Stewart. Just not going to happen.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

I agree. IMO, we lack too many scoring wingers to pull it off. I think it would be doable if we had another scoring winger (JVR or Hall for example). However, we're not going to do well icing a lineup with a top line of Sekac-Getzlaf-Stewart. Just not going to happen.

But Sekac would be such a great finisher if he would just finish /duncecap.

 

[Ducks DVM]

I agree. IMO, we lack too many scoring wingers to pull it off. I think it would be doable if we had another scoring winger (JVR or Hall for example). However, we're not going to do well icing a lineup with a top line of Sekac-Getzlaf-Stewart. Just not going to happen.

We can just claim Etem off of waivers. Problem solved.

Sekac Getzlaf The Next Crosby

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Not sure I agree Stewart is close to being on his way out of the league. Tough to gauge his interest league-wide given his desire to play for a good team and Murray's penchant for reclamation projects, but he did sign a contract, as opposed to a PTO when many vets were signing them, and did so fairly early. He's just too young and skilled to flame out just yet, and he likely knows that.