Speculation: 2014 Trade Deadline Discussion | Part XI | Please, Kesler Don't Hurt Em!

[wgknestrick]

Why do so many people keep penciling Gibbons on the first line even with a healthy lineup?

Because he is most likely our best forward prospect and has produced in that position. There are about 10 larger fish to fry before him. You are worried about a scraped knee after you fell down from being shot in the chest.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

While I'm not totally against trading for Kesler, I think we can get more for less with other players, and wait till the offseason to finish that job. I'm very against the idea of trading for yet another dman, I think I'll have to retire watching for the season it that happens. This is a down year, we should wait it out (as painful as that may sound) and build this team the right way. It can be done

I guess the value of trading for a Dman depends on if they do land Kesler. Let's face it Letang is done and Martin will only be rounding into form around when the playoffs start. Plus Shero likes D depth (obviously). As was mentioned on the radio yesterday, McDonald from the Isles only makes $550k. I can't argue with acquiring a guy that makes that little.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Because he is most likely our best forward prospect and has produced in that position. There are about 10 larger fish to fry before him.

No. Not at all. He is far from our best forward prospect. Bennett is so much better than him and it really isn't close. Crosby's line has not produced at even strength with Gibbons in that spot. The idea that Gibbons on the first line isn't the biggest problem moving forward is insane.

 

[thecore]

I guess the value of trading for a Dman depends on if they do land Kesler. Let's face it Letang is done and Martin will only be rounding into form around when the playoffs start. Plus Shero likes D depth (obviously). As was mentioned on the radio yesterday, McDonald from the Isles only makes $550k. I can't argue with acquiring a guy that makes that little.

Except you don't know the assets that will be required to get him, on top of what we probably pay for Kesler, for at the very best a marginal upgrade over Bort or Despres, and only in the short term.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I only really want Shero to trade for Kesler, even with the asking price, if he's happy playing RW with Sid.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that Shero/Bylsma really want to go back to the 3C model. Shero tried his damnedest to keep Staal, even at a ridiculous rate, before ultimately trading him. This year has been a bit of a throw away year with the cap going down a bunch, and Shero not being able to shift assets and build the way he wants to. I'm not a fan of the 3C model, I think it spreads talent too thin, but with the cap going up Shero can feasibly make it work again. It's going to take a lot of moves, and a complete retooling of our 3rd line, but it's possible. And, to be frank, if we're hell-bent on going back to the 3C model, Kesler is about as perfect a guy you could possibly hope for as your 3C behind Sid and Geno. I don't know, obviously just speculating, but it makes sense. Ever since Staal left, the team's changed noticeably, and for the worse. It's not directly because we lost Staal, but because we lost the only approach Shero and Bylsma seem to be comfortable with, and that's the 3C.

I don't think we get Kesler, honestly. I want him on this team, as I think we need him desperately, but I don't see it happening as time drags on. Ideally, he'd be a phenomenal fit with Sid, but only if he wants to play there. If the grand scheme is to play him as a 3C and shift the focus back to becoming a deeper lineup throughout the top 9, he's the perfect guy to do that, too.

Only about 30 hours to go, boys. Get ready to be supremely disappointed by us acquiring Zidlicky and MacDonald, and losing Despres for peanuts.

 

[mikethelegacy]

Why do so many people keep penciling Gibbons on the first line even with a healthy lineup?

I think ds246pit was making his lineup for the rest of this season.

Obviously Duper would replace Gibbons and he would go to the 3rd/4th line.

When Bennett is back, throw him with Geno for developmental reasons, and the Juice can be set loose on the 3rd line with (hopefully) Kesler.

I get excited just thinking about that possibility.

 

[Hydro]

I guess the value of trading for a Dman depends on if they do land Kesler. Let's face it Letang is done and Martin will only be rounding into form around when the playoffs start. Plus Shero likes D depth (obviously). As was mentioned on the radio yesterday, McDonald from the Isles only makes $550k. I can't argue with acquiring a guy that makes that little.

It just pains me to see that they would be willing to give up assets for players when we have players that are perfectly capable of doing that job. But management/coaching staff do not like the players enough to consistently play them, and that's all that matters unfortunately

 

[Ugene Magic]

No. Not at all. He is far from our best forward prospect. Bennett is so much better than him and it really isn't close. Crosby's line has not produced at even strength with Gibbons in that spot. The idea that Gibbons on the first line isn't the biggest problem moving forward is insane.

Bottom six, and you can almost say the entire bottom six screams a big, hello.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

No. Not at all. He is far from our best forward prospect. Bennett is so much better than him and it really isn't close. Crosby's line has not produced at even strength with Gibbons in that spot. The idea that Gibbons on the first line isn't the biggest problem moving forward is insane.

I think the bottom 6 forwards need the most work but I also agree about the first line. That is such a glaring hole come playoff time. Gibbons will get sealed off/roughed up come playoff time.

 

[Tender Rip]

As was mentioned on the radio yesterday, McDonald from the Isles only makes $550k. I can't argue with acquiring a guy that makes that little.

What a weird argument. MacDonald is an UFA to be and will make a ton more next season. He would cost assets to acquire just the same, and moving forward we wouldn't need him unless we traded away a couple of D-men.

 

[Captain Hook]

I'd be disturbed by their defensive performance if I were Shero and I would look into a veteran D but Bylsma is about as bad a lineup decision maker as there is in the league. The kids should play and the veteran brought in should be the fallback. Guys like Orpik should also be taken to task and scratched if they aren't performing. That isn't how it works with DB though.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Except you don't know the assets that will be required to get him, on top of what we probably pay for Kesler, for at the very best a marginal upgrade over Bort or Despres, and only in the short term.

It's not so much about how good he is compared to our guys but about depth. As far as what to give up, it all depends on the lay of the land by tomorrow afternoon. If Kesler comes here and we have a few assets left I would keep going if possible. Without a big acquisition though I'd probably just make a tweak or two and admit that there's too much to trade for this year.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Bottom six, and you can almost say the entire bottom six screams a big, hello.

I disagree. If Crosby's line can't produce we could have the best bottom six in the league and still get knocked out in the first round. Crosby and Geno are most important. Build around them instead of neutralizing them.

I think ds246pit was making his lineup for the rest of this season.

Obviously Duper would replace Gibbons and he would go to the 3rd/4th line.

When Bennett is back, throw him with Geno for developmental reasons, and the Juice can be set loose on the 3rd line with (hopefully) Kesler.

I get excited just thinking about that possibility.

So even on a team with Ryan Kesler and a healthy Beau Bennett, Sid still doesn't get to play with talent?

 

[StutzlesTapeJob]

deadline time is fun.

Agree with those saying the team isn't in a great spot to win this year. However, i think that depends on who we draw. Aside from "hottest goalie in the playoffs", we are particularly ill suited against teams like the bruins in the east, blues in the west.

I like madinsomniacs overview of where the team is at. Adding Kesler for the right price would be a great skill addition, but unless he plays wing, it's not what we need & it would cost a pretty penny.

I do like the grit and edge he brings though. As i think about it, if we could keep keep Sutter and acquire Kesler to play wing, i would like:

Kunitz Crosby Kesler
Neal Malkin JJ
Megna Sutter BB

That would be 3 solid lines going into the playoffs. Winning that 3rd line battle is going to be the key for us. Every team is going to try and net out our top two lines. We need a 3rd line which is skilled, big, and fast enough to play against 1st or 2nd lines. Then we could go back to creating mismatches for Sid and Geno.

Maybe in my old age (29 now) i look back on guys like malone, roberts, and ruutu with too much historical fondness. I don't think any were particularly amazing players, or "keys to success" on their own. But they gave this team a certain depth and beef (for lack of a better term). Our current team needs to win good clean systems games, which playoff battle level and increased obstruction rarely allow.

So tying this all up. As much as Kesler would be a sexy add, I would rather see us move less assets to create a 3rd and 4th line which can:
- Up the ante in physical - war type games
- 3rd line which can "shut down" opposition 1st and 2nd lines
- Wear a team down over a series
- Provide that instant spark when the team needs it

I don't think we are far off. Would like to see a guy like Matt Martin from the islanders. Tuomo Ruutu. Marcus Foligno. Klinkhammer, Setoguc.

Doubt it could ever happen but Callahan could be a good fit here as well to play top 6.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Regarding Carolina (maybe) being forced to cut salary and Jordan Staal (possibly) being the one to get moved... I haven't followed Carolina at all, have they played Jordan exclusively at Centre, or have they played him at wing as well?

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

What a weird argument. MacDonald is an UFA to be and will make a ton more next season. He would cost assets to acquire just the same, and moving forward we wouldn't need him unless we traded away a couple of D-men.

Not a weird argument at all when there's a salary cap and the team doesn't have a lot of space. I'm saying I don't want to add a Dman but a solid guy that makes $550k is a special case. If he costs a ton then I have no problem not doing it.

 

[Kesid]

Zidlicky? Why? I would rather have Weaver, because he should be cheaper. I know we're missing two RD now, but Martin should be back after few weeks and then you have Martin, Nisky and Weaver on RD and Maatta, Orpik and Scuds as LD. Martin, Nisky and Olli can move puck very well, so pair them with others and you should be okay.

And please no to Hemsky. He is not the right winger for Sid. Hemsky never shoots, holds the puck too long and he is trying to play every chance to empty net. Just play BB with Sid and get another top 9 winger so he or JJ can play with Sutter (or Kesler).

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Regarding Carolina (maybe) being forced to cut salary and Jordan Staal (possibly) being the one to get moved... I haven't followed Carolina at all, have they played Jordan exclusively at Centre, or have they played him at wing as well?

Far as I know they played him at center only but not positive. Doesn't really matter because this is probably the most baseless rumor I've heard in a long, long time. Yeah trade J. Staal. Then watch E. Staal demand a trade in a year or two and see where your team stands. Ridiculous.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Regarding Carolina (maybe) being forced to cut salary and Jordan Staal (possibly) being the one to get moved... I haven't followed Carolina at all, have they played Jordan exclusively at Centre, or have they played him at wing as well?

At center. I doubt they move him. Probably Cam Ward, Pitkanen who will be a UFA. Even Ward at 6.3 cap hit and the way he has played since last year is going to be hard to move

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm on the Kesler train now. Pay the price Ray and get it done.

 

[Shockmaster]

Not a weird argument at all when there's a salary cap and the team doesn't have a lot of space. I'm saying I don't want to add a Dman but a solid guy that makes $550k is a special case. If he costs a ton then I have no problem not doing it.

I though I heard that the price for MacDonald would be pretty high. I can't see Shero being able to get both Kesler and MacDonald given the limited assets he has this year.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Far as I know they played him at center only but not positive. Doesn't really matter because this is probably the most baseless rumor I've heard in a long, long time. Yeah trade J. Staal. Then watch E. Staal demand a trade in a year or two and see where your team stands. Ridiculous.

I'm not counting on, hoping for, or waiting to see a Jordan Staal trade. I'm just mining for information.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I though I heard that the price for MacDonald would be pretty high. I can't see Shero being able to get both Kesler and MacDonald given the limited assets he has this year.

Me neither. Snow probably wants a first for MacDonald. If not, he wants a 2nd which we don't have.

I like the idea of acquiring MacDonald though. He would be a rental as we would not re-sign him with Letang's contract kicking in next season.

 

[Daeni10]

Not a weird argument at all when there's a salary cap and the team doesn't have a lot of space. I'm saying I don't want to add a Dman but a solid guy that makes $550k is a special case. If he costs a ton then I have no problem not doing it.

So you would give up a first round pick for a guy who just turned down a 4 year 16 million $ offer and would be a pure rental? You could argue to get him for a first if you really are in need for d and are able to keep him, we are neither. So hell no, even if he plays for free this year I wouldnt do it.

 

[thecore]

I'm on the Kesler train now. Pay the price Ray and get it done.

Yeah. I feel that more than anything this team needs a shakeup, and long term leadership and shift in attitude like I think Kesler can bring. Not rental leadership like Morrow or Iginla.

Acquiring Kesler might not give us the best chance at winning the cup this year (as acquiring a few solid wingers for the same assets), but it does give us an overall better chance in the next 3 years.