GDT: 2014 NHL Trade Deadline Day (Wednesday, Marth 5th, 3pm ET) - Pens Only II

[Waffle Fries]

I think you're going to have to give up 2 of the 3, and I think mostly because Bennett is getting a little overrated around here lately. I like him but he hasn't proven he won't get banged up at this level and he's a good prospect but not an elite one.

If anything, Bennett has probably become underrated by a majority of this board who, since his injury, have cast him aside. We absolutely cannot trade our only top six wing prospect for a player that likely wouldn't even be used as a top six winger on our team. We would be weakening our weakest position even further.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

If anything, Bennett has probably become underrated by a majority of this board who, since his injury, have cast him aside. We absolutely cannot trade our only top six wing prospect for a player that likely wouldn't even be used as a top six winger on our team. We would be weakening our weakest position even further.

Yeah sounds like his stock is all over the place around here at the moment. Whatever our situation at wing I think he would have to be included to outbid other teams. Kesler makes the team better even if he's not a wing, and it doesn't mean we can't get another wing in the offseason. That's just where I personally stand on it. If the only thing stopping us from acquiring a really good player for 3 playoff runs is the hope that Beau can last a full season and become a 20 goal scorer in time for it to matter, I'll take the established player.

 

[Bishop7979]

I'm not sold on kesler, bringing him in does nothing to address the depth on the third /fourth line, if he moves here his lack of playing time on the pp and lack of quality line mates is going to hurt his effectiveness/offensive output and trading away the package that is rumored on the main trade page Sutter/Bennett/Pouliot and a 1st further destroys our depth for a playoff run and takes away our only quality young forward.

I can understand trading Sutter, he's just not really fitting with out current lineup and style of play. I think he would do better if he were not expected to play a shut down role and if he were given better line mates. If we can move him in a package for a winger for sid and still bring in a more typical third line defensive center, guys more in the mold of a goc, nielsen, richardson, gordon, or moore along with a physical third/fourth line winger Foligino (from buff) Drew Miller, Mackenzie ext. I'd be happy.

Though if we are going big I have to back Vanek, he'd be a cheaper trade target than Kesler, he may be able to be resigned. He is a guy who has been productive on crap teams, he's hard to knock off the puck, has a hell of a shot and is young enough he could be productive with use for years to come. I keep hearing that he's too slow but Billy G fit in well with Sid and was slower than Vanek.

We would have 16 million in cap space for next season with Sid, Geno, Kunitz, Neal, Duper, Letang, Martin, Maata, Scuds and Bort all signed. You could afford Vanek, flesh out the bottom six with Duper as a third line winger and bring in a bottom pairing defender with that cap space.


As an example, you could sign Vanek at 6.5 w/ Sid and Bennett, keep Geno with Kunitz and Neal. Bring in Goc at 2 mil to play with Dupers and Gibson/Megna and on the fourth line bring back Vitale and sign Mackenzie to play with Adams or a call up like Machachek or Sill.

You could resign Nicky for 3.5 and still have close to 1.5 in cap space left. This is with the assumption that Sutter and or Despres is traded to get Vanek.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah sounds like his stock is all over the place around here at the moment. Whatever our situation at wing I think he would have to be included to outbid other teams. Kesler makes the team better even if he's not a wing, and it doesn't mean we can't get another wing in the offseason. That's just where I personally stand on it. If the only thing stopping us from acquiring a really good player for 3 playoff runs is the hope that Beau can last a full season and become a 20 goal scorer in time for it to matter, I'll take the established player.

Catch 22. Kesler will be taking up 5m and they will need BB on his ELC to play in the top six.

No money to sign a UFA winger.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Catch 22. Kesler will be taking up 5m and they will need BB on his ELC to play in the top six.

No money to sign a UFA winger.

I agree, a lot can change in an offseason though cap-wise. They could easily lose Orpik and Niskanen. Of course now I'm talking about them playing some younger guys which obviously is a sore spot for a lot of people haha

 

[IcedCapp]

This is a really sexy forward lineup, though...

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Chris Kunitz ($3.725m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Ales Hemsky ($5.000m)
Jussi Jokinen ($2.100m) / Evgeni Malkin ($8.700m) / James Neal ($5.000m)
Taylor Pyatt ($1.550m) / Ryan Kesler ($5.000m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Tanner Glass ($1.100m) / Joe Vitale ($0.550m) / Craig Adams ($0.700m)
Chris Conner ($0.550m) / Brian Gibbons ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Brooks Orpik ($3.750m) / Olli Maatta ($0.894m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) / Matt Niskanen ($2.300m)
Simon Despres ($0.840m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Deryk Engelland ($0.567m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Jeff Zatkoff ($0.538m)
LTIR
Kris Letang ($3.500m)
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m)
Tomas Vokoun ($2.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2013-14 crunched using simulation date of 2014-03-04)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,311,667

 

[Zen Arcade]

Kyle Brodziak is supposedly available. He wouldn't be a bad option for the third line, good defensively, chips in some offense, hard worker, plays center and wing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Guys, I totally welcome the trade for....who's the equivalent of Craig Adams that's available right now?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Please God,

Give Ray Shero the wisdom to do nothing tomorrow.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Guys, I totally welcome the trade for....who's the equivalent of Craig Adams that's available right now?

Mark Eaton?

There is no other Adams available... we have them already.

 

[billybudd]

Just curious to the thought of posters on the proposed package of Sutter, dumolin/despres, 1st vs the package (at the time) Shero gave for Hossa. More, less, equal?

In retrospect, Shero gave up garbage for Hossa, but at the time, it looked more substantial than the current rumored package looks.

Espo wasn't a better prospect than, say, Brian Dumoulin, but he was far, far more highly regarded.

Colby Armstrong was on the first line at the time, while Sutter's on the third.

Eric Christensen had a big shot, a ton of skill and just shredded the lower leagues (even if he was perceived to still be finding his way in the NHL). A similar piece to him has not yet been rumored to be included.

 

[zero8771]

Why do people keep saying sutter + bennett + dp + 1st.

That is never happening. In fact I seriously doubt even bennett and dp go together.

Seems like typical HF trade board inflation... its almost never as much as speculated here

 

[Waffle Fries]

Yeah sounds like his stock is all over the place around here at the moment. Whatever our situation at wing I think he would have to be included to outbid other teams. Kesler makes the team better even if he's not a wing, and it doesn't mean we can't get another wing in the offseason. That's just where I personally stand on it. If the only thing stopping us from acquiring a really good player for 3 playoff runs is the hope that Beau can last a full season and become a 20 goal scorer in time for it to matter, I'll take the established player.

The more I think about, the less I actually want Kesler (because I feel he will be used as 3C and not 1RW) and the less I actually think he helps us long term.

It's not as simple as "we can get another wing in the offseason." We haven't signed a top 9 winger in free agency in a very, long time. We haven't signed a top 6 free agent winger at all in my memory. There are not very many quality top 6 free agent wingers to even hit the market, and then the prices get out of hand. Fixing our top six issues through free agency doesn't work, and most importantly, there is a cap. We need young players on ELCs

The second way to acquire forwards is through the draft, and we don't have any wing prospects outside of Bennett who would likely be able to step in and make an impact in the top six in the next two seasons. We traded away our first last year. A Kesler trade would require us to trade away our first yet again. We don't have a second. Outside of the first round you aren't going to find players who can make an impact right away.

Finally we could acquire a top six winger through a trade. But in a Kesler trade we would be using a large majority of our valuable assets to acquire him. We can trade some of our defense prospects, but we can't keep relying on them to get us wingers or we'll run out.

Next year with Kesler and without Bennett we'd be looking at this for our forward group:

Kunitz-Crosby-X
X-Malkin-Neal
X-Kesler-X
X-X-X

With a collection of Dupuis and Adams as the only forwards currently signed to fill in those 7 holes. Megna and Gibbons are RFAs, but shouldn't be in our top six, Dupuis should never be put on Crosby's line again, and Kunitz isn't getting any younger and will likely need to be replaced after two more years. Kesler is almost 30 as well. We'll need youth on the wing.

Without Bennett we're just left hoping and praying that Shero can pull out some miracles in free agency or start drafting forwards if we ever have a first round pick again, and I don't want to bank on that.

If we can get Kesler without Bennett included, I'm much more open to it although I still have my issues with trading for a third line center when we don't really need to.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Mark Eaton?

There is no other Adams available... we have them already.

They could always bring back Philippe Dupuis, he was so worthless with WBS last season that he was injured for a month before I realized he wasn't playing.

 

[billybudd]

Why do people keep saying sutter + bennett + dp + 1st.

That is never happening. In fact I seriously doubt even bennett and dp go together.

Seems like typical HF trade board inflation... its almost never as much as speculated here

Huh? Lebrun said Shero and Gillis talked once today. I seriously doubt that was to change the defenseman and add another asset that wasn't asked for in a panic. Just because Vancouverites have gone into asset creep on the trade board in the last 3 days doesn't mean Shero did that.

 

[HuskerTornado]

I just kind of want to not look at anything until 3 tomorrow.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

The more I think about, the less I actually want Kesler (because I feel he will be used as 3C and not 1RW) and the less I actually think he helps us long term.

It's not as simple as "we can get another wing in the offseason." We haven't signed a top 9 winger in free agency in a very, long time. We haven't signed a top 6 free agent winger at all in my memory. There are not very many quality top 6 free agent wingers to even hit the market, and then the prices get out of hand. Fixing our top six issues through free agency doesn't work, and most importantly, there is a cap. We need young players on ELCs

The second way to acquire forwards is through the draft, and we don't have any wing prospects outside of Bennett who would likely be able to step in and make an impact in the top six in the next two seasons. We traded away our first last year. A Kesler trade would require us to trade away our first yet again. We don't have a second. Outside of the first round you aren't going to find players who can make an impact right away.

Finally we could acquire a top six winger through a trade. But in a Kesler trade we would be using a large majority of our valuable assets to acquire him. We can trade some of our defense prospects, but we can't keep relying on them to get us wingers or we'll run out.

Next year with Kesler and without Bennett we'd be looking at this for our forward group:

Kunitz-Crosby-X
X-Malkin-Neal
X-Kesler-X
X-X-X

With a collection of Dupuis and Adams as the only forwards currently signed to fill in those 7 holes. Megna and Gibbons are RFAs, but shouldn't be in our top six, Dupuis should never be put on Crosby's line again, and Kunitz isn't getting any younger and will likely need to be replaced after two more years.

Without Bennett we're just left hoping and praying that Shero can pull out some miracles in free agency or start drafting forwards if we ever have a first round pick again, and I don't want to bank on that.

If we can get Kesler without Bennett included, I'm much more open to it although I still have my issues with trading for a third line center when we don't really need to.

That's a very accurate long term picture IMO. In all honesty though does Bennett make that much of a difference in that picture? You'll have Sutter (on a new deal he probably won't deserve) and Bennett, who I'm a fan of but honestly hasn't proven much yet, instead of Kesler. To say Kesler is more trouble than he's worth is fair, I'd just counter with the idea that the alternative isn't really very appealing.

I'm not advocating somehow finding a way to add another $4-5 million forward next year, but you can fill your lineup in many ways. The problem with my argument is I can't give any tangible scenarios. All I can say is that decent players, Dupuis/Jokinen-type players and bottom sixers become available at different times every calendar year, some of them go through the first two waves of free agency unsigned, etc. I'm of the opinion there are ways to stabilize the forwards between now and next season. In the man time, Kesler and another less than ideal but important move to acquire an every day forward or two would make the team better.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They could always bring back Philippe Dupuis, he was so worthless with WBS last season that he was injured for a month before I realized he wasn't playing.

Sign that man to a 3 year contract! Bylsma will think it's Pascal Dupuis back from the 'grave' and put him on the 1st line.

 

[IcedCapp]

They could always bring back Philippe Dupuis, he was so worthless with WBS last season that he was injured for a month before I realized he wasn't playing.

friend to me today (watches every Pens game, but does not post on message boards and stuff),

"The Penguins waived Chuck Kobasew? He's on the team?"

Yep.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Sign that man to a 3 year contract! Bylsma will think it's Pascal Dupuis back from the 'grave' and put him on the 1st line.

He saw first unit powerplay time last year over more deserving players and was used to protect leads in spite of taking needless penalties.

What I'm saying is that he already knows the system.

 

[billybudd]

All I know about the other Dupuis is he was responsible for one of the most-blatant kneeing majors of the last 15 years.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

friend to me today (watches every Pens game, but does not post on message boards and stuff),

"The Penguins waived Chuck Kobasew? He's on the team?"

Yep.

I wish I had that ignorance. It really would be bliss. A Chucky doll in skates would be better.

He saw first unit powerplay last year over more deserving players and was used to protect leads in spite of taking needless penalties.

What I'm saying is that he already knows the system.

That sounds disturbingly familiar.


Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
As of this hour (1:30ish), #pens feel comfortable with where they stand in #KeslerWatch - but not convinced he will be moved by deadline

Okay?

 

[Michael8771*]

We'll See what happens in a few hours, gonna catch some sleep and get up early for TDL.

 

[Waffle Fries]

That's a very accurate long term picture IMO. In all honesty though does Bennett make that much of a difference in that picture? You'll have Sutter (on a new deal he probably won't deserve) and Bennett, who I'm a fan of but honestly hasn't proven much yet, instead of Kesler. To say Kesler is more trouble than he's worth is fair, I'd just counter with the idea that the alternative isn't really very appealing.

I'm not advocating somehow finding a way to add another $4-5 million forward next year, but you can fill your lineup in many ways. The problem with my argument is I can't give any tangible scenarios. All I can say is that decent players, Dupuis/Jokinen-type players and bottom sixers become available at different times every calendar year, some of them go through the first two waves of free agency unsigned, etc. I'm of the opinion there are ways to stabilize the forwards between now and next season. In the man time, Kesler and another less than ideal but important move to acquire an every day forward or two would make the team better.

We have been searching for a winger for Sid for 8 years. If 8 years isn't long enough to stabilize the forwards, it doesn't seem very likely that we can finally accomplish that in 6 months.

There are 4 spots on a roster for top six wingers. Without Bennett, only one of those spots is filled by someone that can play there for the remainder of Crosby and Malkin's prime years.

Moving Bennett creates a hole that wasn't there without even filling a current one. I don't want any more Dupuis/Jokinen types on the team. It's time to get long term solutions. So yes, I think Bennett makes a big difference in that picture because with him, that's one less piece we have to search for.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Please God,

Give Ray Shero the wisdom to do nothing tomorrow.

I am ok with this, unless all he gives up is a 3rd and/or 4th to get some depth, the going rate for veteran players or rentals even seems to be that, which is nice, but tomorrow it will mean teams might use desperation to get more, Shero not doing anything is something I am on board with as well.

Keep our assets.