Prospect Info: 2014 NHL draft discussion - Part III

[StronGeer]

I meant to get both... Dream scenario. IE: trade #9 pick for 15 (Larkin) and 30 (Vrana)... I know, not gonna happen, one or both could go much higher, but maybe throw in a Postma trade for a pick, or something... Whatever happens this will be an interesting draft and I expect us to do well.

Yeah that's tricky as I think only ANA has 2 1st rounders this year in that range, and their first one is only one behind us. They wouldn't give us both to move up one spot.

The only way that could happen, if you wanted to trade down is trade our first for a first and a second, and then make another trade for the additional pick. In other words, more work in 20 minutes than Chevy has done in 3 years

 

[truck]

I agree, Kosmachuk will transition quickly and he'll be a mainstay on the Jets for a very long time.

I hope you are right. He has a long way to go yet though.

 

[Bob E]

I hope you are right. He has a long way to go yet though.

I agree. Let's see how he does in the A for a year or two first.

 

[NBjet]

I agree. Let's see how he does in the A for a year or two first.

Yes, of course, walk before you run etc., but my eye test tells me this kid is a playa...
Some corroboration here: http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/12/19/5227734/scott-kosmachuk-goal-scorer-winnipeg-jets-prospect

 

[ps241]

I really like Kosmo but the jump to professional hockey is huge so I think we need to be patient.

 

[jetkarma*]

It is understood that we need to temper expectations , or rather not expect all or most prospects will turn out to reach their ceiling.

Some things to keep in mind is that a lot of prospects need to adapt their game or transition from being "the guy" , the one who drives the offense , gets tonnes of ice time , premium linemates and prime ice time. Some of course can segue to the NHL and not miss a beat , or barely.

I think several of our prospects have the type of game , skill set and mindset to be successful at a lesser role in the NHL , Kosmachuk among them. He has that chippyness , that bite , that dog on a bone game that compliments his skating and offensive instincts imo. After he was drafted I said that he reminded me a bit of Ken Linseman , whose nickname was the rat . That is a good thing.

He is going have growing pains , will need to learn to play with and against men ,be responsible defensively but if he accepts that he may need to tier down , I have solid hopes he can be a contributing plus player , hopefully as a third line winger , certainly as a fourth if he embraces that .

We aren't ready to have our bottom 6 forwards be bolstered by our prospects immediately , we are getting close though . This time next year I expect to have at least 3 be ready to really contribute to the parent team.

 

[truck]

Yes, of course, walk before you run etc., but my eye test tells me this kid is a playa...
Some corroboration here: http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/12/19/5227734/scott-kosmachuk-goal-scorer-winnipeg-jets-prospect

One of my favorite authors.

While I do think Kossy plays the game in a way that will transition quickly to pro, I am not sure how much scoring he will take with him.

He arguably already has pro level skating, a pro level shot and a high compete level, but it will take more than those raw skills to score in the AHL. I am hopeful that he can apply his gifts and impress in short order, but plenty of kids struggle.

I will say this though - it will be huge for the Jets if Kossy can become a long term middle 6 player.

Hitting on top picks is vital, but the team needs somebody taken outside the first to greatly outplay their draft position.

Hopefully at least one of Kossy, Lowry and Lipon - if not all three - can post 60+ points in the AHL next year.

 

[jetkarma*]

One of my favorite authors.

While I do think Kossy plays the game in a way that will transition quickly to pro, I am not sure how much scoring he will take with him.

He arguably already has pro level skating, a pro level shot and a high compete level, but it will take more than those raw skills to score in the AHL. I am hopeful that he can apply his gifts and impress in short order, but plenty of kids struggle.

I will say this though - it will be huge for the Jets if Kossy can become a long term middle 6 player.

Hitting on top picks is vital, but the team needs somebody taken outside the first to greatly outplay their draft position.

Hopefully at least one of Kossy, Lowry and Lipon - if not all three - can post 60+ points in the AHL next year.

Agree with your post for the most part but if we get one 60 + player from those three I will be happy ... and surprised.

Highly doubt Lipon sniffs that , A rookie getting 60 would indicate some real positives , Lowry if he gets the right ice time and linemates may be a 60 point guy , which paired with his other attributes would be a very successful year imo.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

truck's talking about 60 in the A, jetkarma. If any of those three got a sniff of 60 in the NHL, we'd have hit the jackpot. I think all three of them have a good shot at being useful contributors in some role though.

 

[jetkarma*]

truck's talking about 60 in the A, jetkarma. If any of those three got a sniff of 60 in the NHL, we'd have hit the jackpot. I think all three of them have a good shot at being useful contributors in some role though.

Oh I know he is talking about getting those points in the AHL , so am I.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Oh I know he is talking about getting those points in the AHL , so am I.

Ah, sorry: saw your mention of rookie, and assumed you were talking about the bigs.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Heading over to the comments section of AIH now but Holden where is the top tier here? I assume between Dal Colle and Tuch? The reason I am not thrilled with #9 is I believe we can get a solid pick at #9 but I think there is a clear upper tier that we missed (pending sliders and insane GM's above us).

Clear line between top 6 and the rest. Everyone in my rankings from 7 to 19 is really close. 20 is probably the start of "tier 3" and that tier is again 15+ deep. There is just not as many clear tiers as years past, this is a very close draft.

I've talked to at least one NHL scout that has Dal Colle outside of the top 10 as well, just FYI.

The one question I have is he a centre of Left wing because I see him listed as both? ISS does have him rated as the second best player "At faceoff’s" in this draft class so one would think that makes him a centre. The key for me from what I have seen we would not be selling out skill wise to get a two way player. I love his speed and intelligence and think he has nice offensive upside

Larkin has primarily played C but he can play wing. I'd say Larkin projects more to center than a guy like Dal Colle even. Most players listed at C can play wing though. Reverse isn't always true, which is why I tend to be much higher on C's in general. Ritchie and Tuch are only wingers to crack my top 10.

 

[jetkarma*]

Ah, sorry: saw your mention of rookie, and assumed you were talking about the bigs.

No worries of course , the three of them scoring 60 points would be really unlikely , but more than welcomed of course.

Would like to see Kosmachuk play with Lowry and Lowry be healthy for the whole year

 

[Bob E]

Considering the IceCaps didn't have one guy reach 60 pts this year, if 1 or more of those 3 guys reach that level, I'll be very pleased as well.

Lowry should improve on his rookie season, so I would be happy with a 25g/25a/50 pt season from him. If Kossy can do something similar, that's a very solid rookie season.

 

[truck]

Agree with your post for the most part but if we get one 60 + player from those three I will be happy ... and surprised.

Highly doubt Lipon sniffs that , A rookie getting 60 would indicate some real positives , Lowry if he gets the right ice time and linemates may be a 60 point guy , which paired with his other attributes would be a very successful year imo.

I agree with what you said above about these guys having what it takes to succeed in a lesse roles, but the Jets need players to overplay those roles. Somebody has to for the team to have long term success.

Lippy, I am not sure where his offensive game will top out, but he put up 43 points as a rookie and earned himself some looks on both the top line and on the pwerplay. He surely beeds to round out his game, but even last year I though he was one of the slicker playmakers on the IceCaps. I am not sure we have seen his ceiling.

 

[truck]

No worries of course , the three of them scoring 60 points would be really unlikely , but more than welcomed of course.

Would like to see Kosmachuk play with Lowry and Lowry be healthy for the whole year

I don't think any of them will score 60. I want / hope one or more will because that would suggest to me that said player might have more than a bottom six NHL ceiling. That's what I meant.

 

[NBjet]

It is understood that we need to temper expectations , or rather not expect all or most prospects will turn out to reach their ceiling.

Some things to keep in mind is that a lot of prospects need to adapt their game or transition from being "the guy" , the one who drives the offense , gets tonnes of ice time , premium linemates and prime ice time. Some of course can segue to the NHL and not miss a beat , or barely.

I think several of our prospects have the type of game , skill set and mindset to be successful at a lesser role in the NHL , Kosmachuk among them. He has that chippyness , that bite , that dog on a bone game that compliments his skating and offensive instincts imo. After he was drafted I said that he reminded me a bit of Ken Linseman , whose nickname was the rat . That is a good thing.

He is going have growing pains , will need to learn to play with and against men ,be responsible defensively but if he accepts that he may need to tier down , I have solid hopes he can be a contributing plus player , hopefully as a third line winger , certainly as a fourth if he embraces that .

We aren't ready to have our bottom 6 forwards be bolstered by our prospects immediately , we are getting close though . This time next year I expect to have at least 3 be ready to really contribute to the parent team.

Yeah, but I think that his dog-on-a-bone attitude is complimented by some innate creative offensive instincts... sure, he's feisty and fast, but he also puts the puck in the net as well as just about any of his current peers. Plus, he isn't that small... he's listed lately as 6' and 190, and with his tenacious character he's likely to show up to camp pushing 200 lbs. We eventually need to get more scoring out of our 3rd and 4th lines, and I think that he's the just the type of player to be able to do so. Hopefully we will get a hint of things to come in the fall...

 

[truck]

Considering the IceCaps didn't have one guy reach 60 pts this year, if 1 or more of those 3 guys reach that level, I'll be very pleased as well.

Lowry should improve on his rookie season, so I would be happy with a 25g/25a/50 pt season from him. If Kossy can do something similar, that's a very solid rookie season.

Jaffray was one point shy, plus O'Dell and Kael would have hit 60 if they played more games.

I should have been more clear. I don't think any of them will get there, but I would like to be surprised by one or more because of what ot would do for the system.

 

[jetkarma*]

Yeah, but I think that his dog-on-a-bone attitude is complimented by some innate creative offensive instincts... sure, he's feisty and fast, but he also puts the puck in the net as well as just about any of his current peers. Plus, he isn't that small... he's listed lately as 6' and 190, and with his tenacious character he's likely to show up to camp pushing 200 lbs. We eventually need to get more scoring out of our 3rd and 4th lines, and I think that he's the just the type of player to be able to do so. Hopefully we will get a hint of things to come in the fall...

I concur about him having skating skills and a plus shot and that knack for being in the right place to capitalize on scoring opportunities , which is why I think he has a chance to succeed as a plus player even if he doesn't transition his offensive dominance to the next level ( then he would have to do that to the next next level as well ) .

As for his size he is under 6 feet , pretty certain of that and likely less than 190 , he has adequate size , could be better of course but it will be fine if his overall game is too. He should provide what you mentioned , a bump for the bottom 6 as far as scoring , and hopefully keeping his edginess as well.

I mentioned this before and yes it is looking ahead and there are no guarantees but I like the line of Lowry and Kosmachuk centered by Copp and hopefully not too far off into the future. That could be a year from now . Could be a good third line and would be a great fourth line initially.

 

[NBjet]

I concur about him having skating skills and a plus shot and that knack for being in the right place to capitalize on scoring opportunities , which is why I think he has a chance to succeed as a plus player even if he doesn't transition his offensive dominance to the next level ( then he would have to do that to the next next level as well ) .

As for his size he is under 6 feet , pretty certain of that and likely less than 190 , he has adequate size , could be better of course but it will be fine if his overall game is too. He should provide what you mentioned , a bump for the bottom 6 as far as scoring , and hopefully keeping his edginess as well.

I mentioned this before and yes it is looking ahead and there are no guarantees but I like the line of Lowry and Kosmachuk centered by Copp and hopefully not too far off into the future. That could be a year from now . Could be a good third line and would be a great fourth line initially.

That sounds like an interesting line to me too! Who are some of the other rookies likely to join the boys on the Rock? I look forward to seeing how how Kossy and Helly make out at the next level... I'm expecting good things.

 

[jetkarma*]

I agree with what you said above about these guys having what it takes to succeed in a lesse roles, but the Jets need players to overplay those roles. Somebody has to for the team to have long term success.

Lippy, I am not sure where his offensive game will top out, but he put up 43 points as a rookie and earned himself some looks on both the top line and on the pwerplay. He surely beeds to round out his game, but even last year I though he was one of the slicker playmakers on the IceCaps. I am not sure we have seen his ceiling.

I agree with you that we need players to out perform their draft or acquisition costs.

I am more looking at a realistic or more tempered projection , partly because I think our top 6 is good and could be more than that. As we all seem to agree it is more we don't have the bottom depth that can contribute , these players ( and others ) are close to changing that . Perhaps one may turn out to be a average second line player but if they become plus players at the third or fourth line level , that still helps us substantially.

I do get what you mean , but personally I think Copp could or will be a win , Hellebycuk could be , and Hutchinson should be , as well as Frolik . So those are some players that to me look to realistically be wins and maybe big time wins.

I have been critical of the Atlanta regime ( still believe they were truly poor ) but we may get a couple small positives in O'Dell and Klingberg . Both have impressed me this playoff run and I can see that they could be better options than what we currently have at the bottom of the roster , and that could be next October.

 

[truck]

That sounds like an interesting line to me too! Who are some of the other rookies likely to join the boys on the Rock? I look forward to seeing how how Kossy and Helly make out at the next level... I'm expecting good things.

Ryan Olsen and that is about it. I have long been a fan of his game. Nice tools, primarily skating, and he is smart defensively. He uses his size well and battles hard for pucks and prime positions. He was a quality WHLer.

He isn't a prospect on par with the others we've discussed, but he should be a decent AHL contributor and has an outside (way outside) shot of making the show in a depth role. I have long thought if him as the player the Jets thought they were getting in Sutter (albeit a less fighting version).

I am very curious to see how he looks away from Kelowna. Nobody there scored a ton, but he was always near the top of the team. Is there more there when he us left off the chain? Will be interesting to see.

 

[allan5oh]

These players will join the Ice Caps:

Ryan Olsen
Connor Hellebuyck
Scott Kosmachuk

Hopefully Jordan Samuels-Thomas is there as well.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

The more I'm hearing and based off my own expectations this draft is going to be a complete mess in terms of predictions. It's going to be all over the place.

Also the more I hear, the more I am not as much worried about Larkin being the Jets pick but rather Larkin might not even make it to the Jets. Interesting.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

These players will join the Ice Caps:

Ryan Olsen
Connor Hellebuyck
Scott Kosmachuk

Hopefully Jordan Samuels-Thomas is there as well.

There's quite a few interesting draft picks that might step right onto IceCaps as well (Richard Nejezcheleb, Colby Cave, Lucas Wallmark among others).