Olympics: 2014 - Finland Roster Discussion

[FiLe]

You don't just scout players to see if they can make the team or not, you want to see what roles they can have and how they behave in certain situations on the ice.

Well, it's not like there isn't ample material of said players as it was. So much in fact, that I don't really see how seeing one live game is going to change any perspections.

Besides, it's not to say that scouting even a known quantity is a complete waste of time, the only question is if that time could be used even better. Though as ThatGuy22 pointed out, there weren't really any better games available that day, so in that sense they're excused.

 

[Gaps]

Could just be a good oppurtunity to see three of their likely Olympians playing in one game. Between the AHL and the NHL, there were only 8 games Sunday. As far as I can tell, the only other Fin in action in any of them was Jurki Jokipakka in the Marlies vs Stars game. Not exactly a player even on the radar for the team.

That is a good point, but I do hope they keep the social calls to a minimum during the trip. As far as we know, this is the only trip they will make to NA so I would prefer it if they didn't waste time on 'scouting' no-brainers and strengthening their relationships with their sauna buddies.

 

[FiLe]

That is a good point, but I do hope they keep the social calls to a minimum during the trip. As far as we know, this is the only trip they will make to NA so I would prefer it if they didn't waste time on 'scouting' no-brainers and strengthening their relationships with their sauna buddies.

If any social calls are made, they can't really even explain these visits away by maintaining good relations with the players. It seems a little odd that their participation would really be dependent on the coach coming and saying hi - and there's no need to maintain the relations long-term either, as both Erkka and Kurri will be off the management after this season. Which is all the more reason they should be spending their time turning those last remaining stones rather than wasting their time socializing. What comes to staying on good terms with the pool, there's a new guy in helm next fall who'll have to start that from scratch anyway.


To be fair though, we don't ofc know all they've done during their trip, so could be we're calling them slackers for nothing. Still, it's easy to adopt the mindset when you can't recall a single "scouting trip" like this when the coaches actually fully pay mind to the genuinely unknown quantities.

 

[EverybodyLovesRay]

Who's gonna be, or should be the captain? Mikko or Saku?
I'd like to see C in Saku's chest, for the last time.. But, when the last name is Koivu, it's still a good choice.

 

[Gaps]

Who's gonna be, or should be the captain? Mikko or Saku?
I'd like to see C in Saku's chest, for the last time.. But, when the last name is Koivu, it's still a good choice.

I don't see the point of 'one last time' at all. I know I said my goodbyes 4 years ago. Time for a change. If you look at IS's poll, Mikko is winning by a landslide.

 

[FiLe]

Currently the situation is, I think, that Mikko is saying it should be Saku... and Saku is saying it should be Mikko.

My take is that the bros will duke it out and the one standing will stick the letter onto the guy on the floor.

 

[EverybodyLovesRay]

I don't see the point of 'one last time' at all. I know I said my goodbyes 4 years ago. Time for a change. If you look at IS's poll, Mikko is winning by a landslide.

yeah, well I prefer Saku, I just think that he's better leader. But Im pretty sure they'll choose Mikko, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Gaps]

Currently the situation is, I think, that Mikko is saying it should be Saku... and Saku is saying it should be Mikko.

My take is that the bros will duke it out and the one standing will stick the letter onto the guy on the floor.

Agreed. I think they should just take a hint from the fans this time and make everyone happy.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Always preferred the older players to captain but i quess Saku stated doesnt want that role anymore so should be Mikko. Id like to see in that scenario Saku and Kimmo Timonen be the 2 Alternate captains. Väänänen, Salo, Selänne other good alternates.

 

[Jongdo]

How about Kukkonen?

 

[Gaps]

This week's Urheilusanomat has a short feature on Vatanen and whether he will be allowed to go to the Olympics from the AHL. There is a short quote from Keklu where he states Columbus would certainly not object if Finland wanted Melart in Sochi. Based on this, it does seem that AHL players (even with NHL contracts) indeed require a separate permission to go. Basically the conclusion is that in practice they will let Vatanen go because having a farm player go to the Olympics makes them happy but in theory it sounds like they could object.

 

[FiLe]

Basically the conclusion is that in practice they will let Vatanen go because having a farm player go to the Olympics makes them happy but in theory it sounds like they could object.

Well, it's still no different actually, as it's still the decision of the NHL organization, not the AHL one. If the player still wants to go and his NT wants him, he gets to go.

Technically, the NHL club can tell any player who has a contract with them to refuse, if they don't want him to go. The most famous case happened with Turin, when the Flames told Kipper to go to Hawaii instead of Italy, and he obliged.

So in a sense, we could still have games with none to very little NHLers if the clubs just told their players to stay at home. It'd of course be a senseless act because the league breaks no matter what. The AHLers are more prone to be requested to stay and more prone to oblige, because they do have games to play and generally flipping the bird to the hand that feeds you is considered a bad career move.

Actually, similar agreement is also in place for all the IIHF tournaments, and we have seen players choose to play for the internationals rather than heading to the farm. Can't recall a case from any olympics, but IIRC Jonas Holos gave the Avs the finger and chose to play for the 2011 WHC instead of reporting to Lake Erie despite being told to do so. It effectively ended his career in North America, but the IIHF did nothing to prevent his participation.

 

[loudis]

Tiki's lineup:

Filppula-Koivu-Ruutu
Timonen-Salo

JJ-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Määttä-Vatanen

Granlund-Barkov-Selänne
Kukkonen-Karalahti

Korpikoski-OJ-Komarov
Väänänen-Hietanen

Rask-Niemi-Rynnäs

Tiki going with junior pairing Määttä-Vatanen under Aaltonen-Kontiola-JJ --> when this line has the puck it's going to be fun but when they dont, are Aaltonen and Kontiola responsible enough to help out Vatanen? I know JJ knows how to defend but does these guys?

3rd line is going to get lots of minuses, Barkov and MG wont have energy to put up any offence cause Selänne and Karalahti are just terrible below the blueline.

Rynnäs as 3rd string? Why all the players who these experts worshipped when they were in europe doesn't get any attention when they head to NA?? Raanta was sick last year both Liiga and WC, but now nobody has him on roster predictions? Same thing with Melart and Järvinen. I may be wrong but didn't both Niemi and Lehtonen say that they would go even as 3rd string?

 

[Erikfromfin]

Its just Tiki talk but his got the 8 defenders right but need to fix that 2nd pairing.

 

[Gaps]

At least Tiki left most of the has-beens at home. But I don't like his 2nd line, the 3rd line, the 4th line C or the 2nd pairing. And yes, I believe we have better candidates than Rynnäs outside the NHL for the 3rd string goalie.

Well, it's still no different actually, as it's still the decision of the NHL organization, not the AHL one. If the player still wants to go and his NT wants him, he gets to go.

Technically, the NHL club can tell any player who has a contract with them to refuse, if they don't want him to go. The most famous case happened with Turin, when the Flames told Kipper to go to Hawaii instead of Italy, and he obliged.

So in a sense, we could still have games with none to very little NHLers if the clubs just told their players to stay at home. It'd of course be a senseless act because the league breaks no matter what. The AHLers are more prone to be requested to stay and more prone to oblige, because they do have games to play and generally flipping the bird to the hand that feeds you is considered a bad career move.

Actually, similar agreement is also in place for all the IIHF tournaments, and we have seen players choose to play for the internationals rather than heading to the farm. Can't recall a case from any olympics, but IIRC Jonas Holos gave the Avs the finger and chose to play for the 2011 WHC instead of reporting to Lake Erie despite being told to do so. It effectively ended his career in North America, but the IIHF did nothing to prevent his participation.

I think even 'recommending' a player not go to the Olympics when there is a deal on this is a ****** trick to pull.

Well, we finally found out Erkka's stance on the AHL: http://www.iltasanomat.fi/mmkiekko/art-1288623474496.html

He does not know for sure if he can take an AHL player to Sochi or not. They have not even thought about it. Well, they had better because we need Vatanen in any case.

 

[FiLe]

I think even 'recommending' a player not go to the Olympics when there is a deal on this is a ****** trick to pull.

Yeah, tell me about it. But like I said, it'd make little to no sense because said player would be doing nothing anyway. The league breaks, there's no games so you'd have all those guys at home, fiddling their thumbs. It'd be pretty damn hard to explain it away.

He does not know for sure if he can take an AHL player to Sochi or not. They have not even thought about it. Well, they had better because we need Vatanen in any case.

No way. Pretty effin' professional. Even I've bothered to check out what's the word on this, and I'm a simple couch analyst like the rest of us.

 

[Wings4Life]

Tiki's lineup:

Filppula-Koivu-Ruutu
Timonen-Salo

JJ-Kontiola-Aaltonen
Määttä-Vatanen

Granlund-Barkov-Selänne
Kukkonen-Karalahti

Korpikoski-OJ-Komarov
Väänänen-Hietanen

Rask-Niemi-Rynnäs

I'd probably shuffle the D-pairings a little. I would also replace the 3G and 4C with more suitable candidates, I mean there are still guys like Niemi out there who are more than deserving such a role (if not a better one).

I am a fan of Tiki's top 6. This is the most balanced top 6 Finland can ice this year, provided Aaltonen is on his game that is. Too bad JJ just got bumped to the third line in Pitt, but two months to start the season in the top 6 should be enough to keep him sharp for Sochi.

 

[Erikfromfin]

Pretty quiet for a day here. I quess have to come up with something. Rank the finlands centers from 1 to 10. Just the best overall player that combines everything from offense to defense to faceoffs to leadership to experience to anything. simply put best center in vacuum.

in Alphabetical order

Barkov Aleksander
Filppula Valtteri
Granlund Mikael
Immonen Jarkko
Jokinen Olli
Kapanen Niko
Koivu Mikko
Koivu Saku
Kontiola Petri
Lehterä Jori

 

[loudis]

Pretty quiet for a day here. I quess have to come up with something. Rank the finlands centers from 1 to 10. Just the best overall player that combines everything from offense to defense to faceoffs to leadership to experience to anything. simply put best center in vacuum.

in Alphabetical order

Barkov Aleksander
Filppula Valtteri
Granlund Mikael
Immonen Jarkko
Jokinen Olli
Kapanen Niko
Koivu Mikko
Koivu Saku
Kontiola Petri
Lehterä Jori

Mikko , Valtteri , Mikael , Aleksander , Saku , Petri. Just because Saku is my hero, he's before Petri. Sadly, age starts to show up in his body

 

[FiLe]

I quess have to come up with something.

You know, there's no really need to make noise simply because the sake of silence...

Putting players who have their individual strengths and weaknesses in some kind of ranking is a tough ordeal, and pretty much nonsensible anyway because you have to value different things based on their presumed role in the team. Perhaps one can point out one or two or three who appear to be most prominent, but after that trying to rank them into any order turns into complete crapshoot.

That being said, is there one that could be named as the overall best right now? Well... gotta be Flip. Period.

 

[Erikfromfin]

I apologize for creating discussion

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

Mikko should be captain. Saku's play.. well, if he wasn't Saku Koivu he might not get chosen..

3rd goaltender should be the guy we'll count on in the world championships, but otherwise this will be the first time Finland goes into the Olympics with the best goaltender out there.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

If I had the chance to choose the rooster it would look like this:

Filppula-M.Koivu-J.Jokinen
Granlund-O.Jokinen-Selänne
Korpikoski-Barkov-Ruutu
Joensuu-S.Koivu-Komarov
Kontiola

Vatanen-Salo
Timonen-Määttä
Väänänen-Järvinen
Lepistö

and the goalies

 

[JJTT]

OJ played really well last night vs Minnesota. He's been very solid in the 3 games i have seen him this year. No wonder Erkka is considering him for the team.

Kontiola will have to producing at ppg-rate if he wishes to be on the team.

 

[FiLe]

Here's something to chew on: I heard a rumor that Lydman is coming back, about to strike a deal with a certain Lüga team.

Now, this is at least for the moment pretty much HNA (Horsemen News Agency) material, so take it for what it is - but hypothetically, could he still have time to catch the olympic train?