You really haven't followed prospects a lot have you? First you think Ekblad is better than Jones (which is pretty hilarious) and now you think Button is "stupid", just because you disagree with him? First thing you should always know about lists is, there is no such thing as a "wrong" list. Only when all these players have played 300+ games in the NHL can you go back and say Mr. Button was wrong. If he thinks Virtanen is the #51 best player in this draft, so be it. Even though he thinks he is best 51st player, Button has him in the top 10 for his mock draft so he knows he will be in that position. BUT he also knows Virtanen's faults which RS and I have described in great detail on this site.
Prospect Info: 2014 Draft Thread
- Thread starter henchman21
- Start date
You really haven't followed prospects a lot have you? First you think Ekblad is better than Jones (which is pretty hilarious) and now you think Button is "stupid", just because you disagree with him? First thing you should always know about lists is, there is no such thing as a "wrong" list. Only when all these players have played 300+ games in the NHL can you go back and say Mr. Button was wrong. If he thinks Virtanen is the #51 best player in this draft, so be it. Even though he thinks he is best 51st player, Button has him in the top 10 for his mock draft so he knows he will be in that position. BUT he also knows Virtanen's faults which RS and I have described in great detail on this site.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
The expectations put on top 15 picks is pretty unreal. It was put out there that he would be a top pairing complementary shutdown guy with some offensive upside. If being a bust is not living up to the expectations placed upon the kid when he was draft, yeah I guess you could consider him that as he is never going to be a 2 way top pairing defender. IMO that is not a bust though as many players don't reach expectations. Siemens busting to me would be that he doesn't make it into a top 4 role, and he still can easily reach that. If Siemens pans out to just be a bottom pairing player, I think there is a legitimate debate on him being a bust. It is early though and it will be a couple more years before the picture even starts to come into focus.
It should be said that when Siemens was picked it even seemed Pracey thought he had a bit more 2 way ability.
"The qualities of big blueliner who could skate, that was something that was important for us," Pracey said of Siemens. "He's a smart player, he has the ability to move the puck. … For us, we thought he plays a very complementary game. We think he's going to be a big minute-type of player who will play in all situations. He's also going to make us a team that's difficult to play against. We like that he has this territorial approach to playing defense. We think he leans on people, we think he has a gritty side, we think he makes life unpleasant to the opposition."
It should be said that when Siemens was picked it even seemed Pracey thought he had a bit more 2 way ability.
"The qualities of big blueliner who could skate, that was something that was important for us," Pracey said of Siemens. "He's a smart player, he has the ability to move the puck. … For us, we thought he plays a very complementary game. We think he's going to be a big minute-type of player who will play in all situations. He's also going to make us a team that's difficult to play against. We like that he has this territorial approach to playing defense. We think he leans on people, we think he has a gritty side, we think he makes life unpleasant to the opposition."
- Dec 2, 2007
- 17,274
- 2,226
Button is definitely one of the best professionals when it comes to crafting his own personal drafting list. I'm actually surprised he isn't with a NHL organization right now in some capacity. Perhaps he's waiting to run a scouting department.
One thing as a neutral observer, this draft seems to be particularly volatile after the top 10 or so names. I've seen a lot of the same names floating between 15th and 45th all year. Take Ho Sang for instance.
Sure would be sweet to grab a faller with our pick. There's plenty of instances of those guys working out for their clubs in the past, the first one to come to mind is Saad.
landy92mack29
Registered User
where did I say he's stupid?
this year I followed the avs mainly and only the high prospects I followed(ekblad/reinhart/Virtanen/etc)
putting Virtanen at #51 is an attention grabber. if he thinks he's not that good he could of put him around 20-25 but that wouldn't have got the attention he wanted.
everyone is entitled to their opinion but if you go off board that much you should expect flak.
ekblad is just as good as jones at minimum
Freudian
Clearly deranged
- Jul 3, 2003
- 50,471
- 17,344
Button watches a lot of live hockey. His list is made from personal observation. He does have his preferences that may seem slightly out there, but that doesn't make him a weirdo.
Many rankings seem influenced by other rankings, so if you have seen one you have seen all.
It's too easy to point and laugh at people getting it wrong in hindsight, but if you had access to every teams draft lists, every single team will have a lot of mistakes in there too. That's what happens when you draft 17-18 year olds. There is a lot of projection involved.
Many rankings seem influenced by other rankings, so if you have seen one you have seen all.
It's too easy to point and laugh at people getting it wrong in hindsight, but if you had access to every teams draft lists, every single team will have a lot of mistakes in there too. That's what happens when you draft 17-18 year olds. There is a lot of projection involved.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
Two things... the rare times that draft boards get leaked, teams have vastly different opinions that other teams. The Avs have had ROR and Bigras as mid 1st round picks... those would be off the board considering the rankings by the media. Button comes from an organization background and he forms his list that way. I don't agree with him on many areas, but I guarantee there are some organization lists that look similar.
Second... saying Ekblad is as good as Jones is going to be digging yourself a hole. Jones was the best defensive prospect to come out in years.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
- 52,339
- 31,500
Just picked up my Hockey News Draft Preview...in the Avs section, it says that Siemens "is starting to look like a bust".
Nothing like giving a 20 year old, 1st year pro even a little chance.
As always, The Hockey News is continuing to do a great job justifying my subscription cancellation from 3-4 years ago (Father's day gift).
Wasn't that a direct quote from Dater at some point this year? Twitter maybe?
That whole sentence sounds really familiar, and I remember us giving him crap here for it.
Edit: BTW, I just looked at the games played for the draft that year. Larsson, Hamilton, and Brodin have all established themselves as NHLers to an extent so far, but they were all taken in the top 10 before Duncan.
Of the D men taken behind him, the most amount of games played in the NHL by a D man is 52 by Ryan Murphy, and most are in the 1-20 games range.
It's absolutely Pejorative Slured to be thinking bust about Siemens at this point.
Last edited:
landy92mack29
Registered User
jones was also protected on a stacked winterhawks team while ekblad was the guy for barrie
I know I'm somewhat biased as I get attached to players which can cloud someones judgement but they don't grant exceptional status to just anyone and he hasn't done anything to not warrant that distinction.
Just picked up my Hockey News Draft Preview...in the Avs section, it says that Siemens "is starting to look like a bust".
Nothing like giving a 20 year old, 1st year pro even a little chance.
As always, The Hockey News is continuing to do a great job justifying my subscription cancellation from 3-4 years ago (Father's day gift).
I used to treat it like the Bible, the state of it right now is downright depressing.
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
Prospects are not judged on what they do in junior, but how they project into the future. Jones has elite tools in almost every area (the only real knock is that he isn't mean enough)... in comparison Ekblad has some elite tools, some good, and some weaknesses. Ekblad got exceptional status because he was a man amongst boys, and he still is. When he plays against stronger competition, he will have a much tougher time playing his game because it relies so much on him being bigger and stronger. Beyond that he has issues with his mobility, questionable first pass abilities and judgement.
Ekblad is going to have a rough transition to the NHL. Not 100% the same player, but Ekblad is going to be Gudbranson v2.0. Both will end up being solid 2/3s, but won't have the skill set to be true #1s.
landy92mack29
Registered User
Who does this scouting report sound like to you?
Assets: Has both the size and mean streak to keep skilled players honest. Excels in one-on-one situations, as he literally overpowers opponents. Can unleash a big-time point shot to score a fair amount of goals and log a lot of ice time. Has the ability to drop the gloves and is a born leader.
Flaws: Must curb his propensity to run around the defensive zone in search of the big hit from time to time. Also, he can go overboard in terms of his physicality from time to time and take a bad penalty for a questionable hit. Is still a little inconsistent in terms of playing the shutdown role.
Career Potential: Elite all-round defenseman with a big point shot and leadership skills.
Last edited by a moderator:
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
Honestly, like every top 5-10 big defensemen picked in the last 15 years. They all have roughly the same scouting report on sites.
Over the past couple years I have probably seen 20+ of Ekblad's games live and more than that on film. My opinion isn't the same as a lot of writers out there, but it isn't coming from no where. There are also a number of dissenting opinions on Ekblad out there, even in the media types. Ekblad is a safe projection to be a #3 defensemen, or a #2 complementary top pairing defensemen. His ceiling is obviously a #1, but I think the likelihood of reaching that is pretty slim.
If you watch 5-10 of his games in a row and really watch him, one thing will be immediately noticeable... if he cannot over power an opponent in his own end, he is in major trouble. He will either take a dumb holding or tripping penalty because he can't rotate well or he will get beat (his 4 way mobility is pedestrian). This is most noticeable on the cycle where strong quicker forwards can out maneuver him and drive towards the net. Now in junior, he is able to contain players simply because of his size... when he no longer has that advantage it is a huge cause for concern as every player in the NHL is strong on their skates and most are pretty quick.
landy92mack29
Registered User
R S
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2006
- 25,468
- 10
Doesn't have the puck skills that Dillon had/has. Dillon had 59 points in his final year in the WHL. I'll say it again for the 1000th time, Siemens, at best, works out to be Barret Jackman and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I don't think his numbers were really the reason why teams thought so highly of him. It's always been his skating.
You simply don't see players who are his size/strength who skate as well as he does, who play a defence-first game with a mean streak. They're rare. He struggles with a first pass and some decision making, but his athletic package is what got him to be a top 15 pick.
Jones has much more potential than Ekblad does. Mostly because of the way he processes the game and is athletic makeup and bloodlines. Ekblad is no chump, 1st overall this year IMO, but Jones has definite Hall of Fame and Norris potential.
Let me guess, that's either EJ or Weber?
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
As I said... every scouting report for big defensemen are the same... you can go back and look at EJ, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Gudbranson, Jones, etc and find similar things said. Scouting reports for big defensemen are pretty generic. If they are North American they are described as the next Pronger or Weber now... If they are Swedish they are the next Lidstrom. Describing a prospect in a couple hundred words doesn't paint an accurate picture.
landy92mack29
Registered User
As Hench said, Ekblad doesn't have the hockey smarts that Jones has. He has relied on his man body throughout his whole career. Plus to touch up again, Aaron was granted exceptional status because of his body size, nothing to do with talent level or smarts (compared to someone like McDavid). You take away his body and he won't even be considered a top 60 player. As if you take away Jones body, he would still be a Honka or DeAngelo type of player. I still consider Ekblad, with his man body a top 10 player. But like Virtanen, I would think it would be a big mistake to draft him in the top 3. While a top 10 selection from Jake would be a mistake.
I do think he will go 1st overall as well, but I think I would prefer to have a duo of Jones/Draisaitl than Brakov/Ekblad.
Last edited:
- Feb 24, 2012
- 62,935
- 47,164
My goodness... I don't care who or when it was... scouting reports are generic on players. They get pigeon holed in to areas and described as such. No body would put Gudbranson on Weber's level, but if you just read their scouting report today they would seem like very similar players.
Avs_19
Registered User
- Jun 28, 2007
- 84,831
- 32,898
MacGregor.
I won't forget that one. What a fool.
And look at how bad their drafting/development have been to boot.
R S
Registered User
- Sep 18, 2006
- 25,468
- 10
Yes, he was definitely a late-bloomer, hence he was never drafted by an NHL team, only signed by Dallas.
But, he ran a powerplay in junior with a good shot and nice puck moving ability.
If Siemens turns out to be that, it would be amazing, but he won't because they aren't overly similar aside from size and ruggedness.
