Olympics: 2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)

[86Habs]

Marleau was always on the bubble for me with a shot of getting selected. If he keeps it up for the remainder of this year and start of the next, i have no problem with him being on the team as a 13th forward/4th line player. Absolute no to Joe Thornton especially on the big ice. He did not overly impress in Vancouver and looked slow as heck on the big ice in 2006.

Realistically though, he's going to slow down over the course of this season and will probably end up with ~30 goals, putting him at slightly-above a 50-goal pace over an entire, full season. His previous career high is 44, and he's not getting any younger. I wouldn't put any money on him getting back on a 40+ goal pace to start the 2013-2014 season, either.

So, assuming that this current year is an anomaly, and knowing what we know about Patrick Marleau - 35-goal player in an average year, strong defensively, great speed, good size, versatile, great special teams player, good-to-very good performer for us in 2010 - does he make the team? I personally wouldn't have any heartburn over him being there, especially if youngsters like Hall don't pan out or get injured, or if someone like Mike Richards sees his play erode, but I certainly wouldn't say he's a good bet to make it.

 

[86Habs]

I mentioned Parron as my surprise invitee to Summer Camp a while back and was loudly criticized for it. Parron was impressing me just prior to the concussion and now that that he seems to have that behind him he's been excellent. Fantastic player, a llongshot to make it, but he's on my ones to watch list.

Yeah, he's been great. Picked him up late in my fantasy draft and he's been a good producer for me so far, but more importantly, he's looked great on the ice whenever I've caught the Blues in action. He's in a good situation in STL, for sure - playing with Backes and Oshie, being coached by Hitchock.

 

[hitmen19]

for those saying marleau should all of a sudden be on the team. 5 games does not change the track record of what has happened over a career. he has consistently disappeared from the biggest games in his career in the playoffs. the sharks had been picked to go to the finals last 6 7 years and they haven't been close with the stacked teams they had. Alot better options for Canada.

 

[BigNumber1Centre]

Team Canada 2014 as per Wharnsby, Friedman, scouts

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/02/choosing-canadas-hockey-team-for-sochi-olympics.html

I can't seem to open the current thread. Mods please merge if need be. My apologies if this article has already been posted. Basically Tim Wharnsby, Elliotte Friedman and 4 NHL scouts selected who they thought would be on the roster in Sochi. The unanimous decisions were:

Crosby
Giroux
Toews
Stamkos
Perry
Bergeron

Weber
Doughty
Keith

Price

Notable absences from the list include Marleau, Thornton, St. Louis and Heatley.

 

[joe89]

I have a notable omission(should be on every list): Pietrangelo. I watch him and Keith all the time in the Central division and it's not that close - in favor of Alex.

Heatley? I have a very hard time seeing him on a Canadian Olympic team, unless they wanna try revive old memories.

 

[kris]

I have a notable omission(should be on every list): Pietrangelo. I watch him and Keith all the time in the Central division and it's not that close - in favor of Alex.

Heatley? I have a very hard time seeing him on a Canadian Olympic team, unless they wanna try revive old memories.

Pietrangelo is on 5/6 lists and Heatley is on zero.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Pietrangelo is on 5/6 lists and Heatley is on zero.

Exactly, 50% of Canadians were done with Heatley even prior to Vancouver in 2010. Now, 99.9999999% of Canadians are done with this guy. I've yet to see one potential line-up suggestion which includes Heatley; if I did I'd be all over it just like I am every time I see Getzlaf's or Perry's name...and for the record, if it comes down to choosing one of those as an injury replacement, I'll take Perry over Getzlaf, Getzlaf over Heatley and I'll take the off-ice official working the penalty box at the ACC over Heatley.

And Pietrangelo is pretty much a lock in my book.

 

[joe89]

Pietrangelo is on 5/6 lists and Heatley is on zero.

Yah, Heatley was more in response to OP(before merge).

Do Canadians regard Marc Staal as highly as these "experts"? He's not looked quite as good to me since he came back from concussion last year.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Yah, Heatley was more in response to OP(before merge).

Do Canadians regard Marc Staal as highly as these "experts"? He's not looked quite as good to me since he came back from concussion last year.

I got him close, but not in the TOP 7. I'd like to see him make it though, as I think it is quite possible with a potential 25 man roster, that 3 Staal brothers can be named to the team. Not that I'm overly sentimental to that kind of story, but...would be cool. Plus, I have connections to Thunder Bay. Just one summer, but what a summer it was.

 

[BigNumber1Centre]

Yah, Heatley was more in response to OP(before merge).

Do Canadians regard Marc Staal as highly as these "experts"? He's not looked quite as good to me since he came back from concussion last year.

I only mentioned Heatley because he was a member of the previous team and will still be relatively young when the Olympics come around. I definitely agree he should not be on the team. Also, Thornton did receive one vote so my bad there.

 

[1Gold Standard]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/opinion/2013/02/choosing-canadas-hockey-team-for-sochi-olympics.html

I can't seem to open the current thread. Mods please merge if need be. My apologies if this article has already been posted. Basically Tim Wharnsby, Elliotte Friedman and 4 NHL scouts selected who they thought would be on the roster in Sochi. The unanimous decisions were:

Crosby
Giroux
Toews
Stamkos
Perry
Bergeron

Weber
Doughty
Keith

Price

Notable absences from the list include Marleau, Thornton, St. Louis and Heatley.

For the record, selecting Perry for Sochi will be a monumental mistake. I can't believe it was unanimous that this group of 6 all had Perry included. But we'll see how it goes.

 

[86Habs]

Interesting. Lets be glad these clowns don't work at Hockey Canada.

- Who left Pietrangelo off the ballot? C'mon, he's probably our best d-man at the moment.

- Only two votes for Letang? He should be firmly entrenched in the top-5 at this point.

- I'm not surprised at Perry actually getting votes, but I am surprised that he was unanimous amongst the panel. While there is a lot of hockey left between now and Sochi, he's gotten off to a slow start this year, and will really need to pick it up to overcome some of his other deficiencies, in my view.

- Surprised Bergeron was a unanimous selection as well (not that it doesn't make sense). Shows he's no longer flying under the radar when it comes to selecting these teams like he was in 2010.

- Tavares with only 4 votes? OK....

- Lucic / Getzlaf as the 13th forward? We can quibble about Getzlaf (I don't think he should be there, but that's a personal view), but Lucic? He would add absolutely NO value to Team Canada on the international ice, none. Poor skater, not versatile, can't kill penalties, not great defensively, and would be exposed on a scoring line....I just can't imagine a knowledgeable hockey person would have him on this team when we have so many better options. If you're looking at the Bruins roster, look no further than Seguin (or even Marchand, who I'd take over Lucic as well at this point).

- Benn? Whatever, he may play himself onto the team and he wouldn't be a horrible selection. I still like Taylor Hall a lot better for a winger role on the larger ice surface, though.

As an aside, if this team were chosen right now Marty St. Louis would absolutely have to be there; he's inarguably our best winger, and him and Stamkos are playing fantastic hockey together. Our goaltending situation has also improved, I'd say - I'd be comfortable going into the Olympics with Price and Luongo with the way they're playing right now.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Interesting. Lets be glad these clowns don't work at Hockey Canada.

- Who left Pietrangelo off the ballot? C'mon, he's probably our best d-man at the moment.

- Only two votes for Letang? He should be firmly entrenched in the top-5 at this point.

- I'm not surprised at Perry actually getting votes, but I am surprised that he was unanimous amongst the panel. While there is a lot of hockey left between now and Sochi, he's gotten off to a slow start this year, and will really need to pick it up to overcome some of his other deficiencies, in my view.

- Surprised Bergeron was a unanimous selection as well (not that it doesn't make sense). Shows he's no longer flying under the radar when it comes to selecting these teams like he was in 2010.

- Tavares with only 4 votes? OK....

- Lucic / Getzlaf as the 13th forward? We can quibble about Getzlaf (I don't think he should be there, but that's a personal view), but Lucic? He would add absolutely NO value to Team Canada on the international ice, none. Poor skater, not versatile, can't kill penalties, not great defensively, and would be exposed on a scoring line....I just can't imagine a knowledgeable hockey person would have him on this team when we have so many better options. If you're looking at the Bruins roster, look no further than Seguin (or even Marchand, who I'd take over Lucic as well at this point).

- Benn? Whatever, he may play himself onto the team and he wouldn't be a horrible selection. I still like Taylor Hall a lot better for a winger role on the larger ice surface, though.

As an aside, if this team were chosen right now Marty St. Louis would absolutely have to be there; he's inarguably our best winger, and him and Stamkos are playing fantastic hockey together. Our goaltending situation has also improved, I'd say - I'd be comfortable going into the Olympics with Price and Luongo with the way they're playing right now.

Agree 100% You prefer Stamkos at center with MSL on the right side? Or Stamkos on LW with perhaps Crosby at center and MSL on the right? I think it will be critical with ZERO prep time to come up wherever possible with a couple of line combinations that are teammates on their club teams, i.e. Stammer and MSL. Bergeron Seguin Hall and Ebbs... so long as they got the numbers to back it up and are playing well...

 

[86Habs]

Agree 100% You prefer Stamkos at center with MSL on the right side? Or Stamkos on LW with perhaps Crosby at center and MSL on the right?

I'd prefer to see Crosby and Stamkos on two separate lines, actually. Something like:

Tavares - Crosby - Eberle
St. Louis - Stamkos - Giroux

This balances off the scoring a bit better than simply loading up Sid and Stammer on the same line. It also creates two different "looks" for the opposition, with the Crosby line relying a bit more on hockey intelligence and playmaking ability while the Stamkos line is a bit more dynamic (from a skating point of view). Overall, I'd prefer to keep Stamkos at the center position, where he's most comfortable. MSL is a LHed right winger, so if you want to stay true to his position you could move him over, then bring someone like Nash or Staal up to play LW on the Stamkos line.

I'm also not sure how well Crosby and Giroux would play together, given the issues they've had in the past. They're professionals and should be able to put it behind them for the good of the Maple Leaf on their chest, but who knows.

My bottom seven includes guys like Hall and Seguin, who could be moved up or down the lineup to introduce more of a speed element on the first line, or to take advantage of chemistry between Ebs and Hall. And solid vets like Toews, Richards, Nash, Staal, and Bergeron would round out the two-way 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[86Habs]

Agree 100% You prefer Stamkos at center with MSL on the right side? Or Stamkos on LW with perhaps Crosby at center and MSL on the right? I think it will be critical with ZERO prep time to come up wherever possible with a couple of line combinations that are teammates on their club teams, i.e. Stammer and MSL. Bergeron Seguin Hall and Ebbs... so long as they got the numbers to back it up and are playing well...

Yeah, that worked pretty well for us in 2010 and I don't see why Yzerman would back-off from that approach for 2014. In a sense though, it introduces the possibility for guys like Neal to make their way on the team (though he doesn't always line up with Sid, they'd at least be familiar with playing with each other), and of course, Getzlaf-Perry.

 

[1Gold Standard]

I'd prefer to see Crosby and Stamkos on two separate lines, actually. Something like:

Tavares - Crosby - Eberle
St. Louis - Stamkos - Giroux

This balances off the scoring a bit better than simply loading up Sid and Stammer on the same line. It also creates two different "looks" for the opposition, with the Crosby line relying a bit more on hockey intelligence and playmaking ability while the Stamkos line is a bit more dynamic (from a skating point of view). Overall, I'd prefer to keep Stamkos at the center position, where he's most comfortable. MSL is a LHed right winger, so if you want to stay true to his position you could move him over, then bring someone like Nash or Staal up to play LW on the Stamkos line.

I'm also not sure how well Crosby and Giroux would play together, given the issues they've had in the past. They're professionals and should be able to put it behind them for the good of the Maple Leaf on their chest, but who knows.

My bottom seven includes guys like Hall and Seguin, who could be moved up or down the lineup to introduce more of a speed element on the first line, or to take advantage of chemistry between Ebs and Hall. And solid vets like Toews, Richards, Nash, Staal, and Bergeron would round out the two-way 3rd and 4th lines.

I've been wondering the same since last spring's little dust up. I'm sure if it comes to that they'll bury the hatchet for a few weeks.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Hey guys pens fan here. Just wondering who u guys think your captain will be? Well i guess im mainly wondering if its gonna be sid?

 

[86Habs]

Hey guys pens fan here. Just wondering who u guys think your captain will be? Well i guess im mainly wondering if its gonna be sid?

Probably Crosby. He's the "face" of Hockey Canada, but I guess what we, as fans, don't know is how much leadership he'll exert, and how much influence and respect he'll have in that particular dressing room. I'm not personally of the view that your best player needs to be your captain though, and therefore wonder whether a guy like Shea Weber, who seems to carry quite a bit of gravitas (for lack of a better word) with his fellow players would be a better selection. That would also take the pressure off of Crosby and let him focus on the game.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Hey guys pens fan here. Just wondering who u guys think your captain will be? Well i guess im mainly wondering if its gonna be sid?

My vote is Weber with the C. Sid wears an A along with Towes and Richards.

 

[Steazy Doo]

Can someone explain the fascination these "experts" have with Milan Lucic? His temper and foot speed would kill us. With the big ice, any physical advantage people think he would bring becomes even less of a factor...

To those saying Martin St. Louis should be there, I agree 100%. Why would we leave our most consistently elite winger at home? Very disappointed he didn't make it last time, and MSL will make damn sure he's there this time. I don't think I'm being a homer in saying he is the best Canadian winger in the game.

Perry has been disappointing, to say the least. I agree with Mr. Writer in that we should leave both him and Getzlaf home.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine, but why is Nash never held to any sort of offensive standard? The only guy who consistently doesn't perform and is considered a lock. I know he played well in Vancouver, but it seems like hes getting a free ride here...

 

[86Habs]

Can someone explain the fascination these "experts" have with Milan Lucic? His temper and foot speed would kill us. With the big ice, any physical advantage people think he would bring becomes even less of a factor...

To those saying Martin St. Louis should be there, I agree 100%. Why would we leave our most consistently elite winger at home? Very disappointed he didn't make it last time, and MSL will make damn sure he's there this time. I don't think I'm being a homer in saying he is the best Canadian winger in the game.

Perry has been disappointing, to say the least. I agree with Mr. Writer in that we should leave both him and Getzlaf home.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine, but why is Nash never held to any sort of offensive standard? The only guy who consistently doesn't perform and is considered a lock. I know he played well in Vancouver, but it seems like hes getting a free ride here...

I can't explain the Lucic nuthugging going on, unfortunately. I think what's happening is that Team Canada typically carries a banger/crasher up-front, sometimes with success (see Morrow in 2010), sometimes not (see Bertuzzi in 2006), so the so-called experts like to pencil in the best such forward on our 4th line. Obviously the key differentiator is the size of the ice surface, and while Lucic would be a viable option on the NHL-sized ice surface, he'd be a detriment on the larger international ice (for the reasons you pointed out).

Re: Nash - I've always been a supporter of his at international tournaments. The reasons: 1) natural winger, and can play either LW or RW; 2) great size and speed down the wing, which is invaluable especially on international ice; 3) versatility, in that he can play on any of the four forward lines and can effectively play either an offensive or defensive role (and looked great playing with Toews and Richards in a primarily defensive role in 2010); 5) can kill penalties or play the PP; 6) always raises his game internationally.

Overall, the (expected) coaching staff is also familiar with his game, and he essentially presents little to no downside risk as a forward selection - i.e., he's not going to hurt us. For me it comes down to the fact that while he's seen as an offensive player in the context of the NHL, he can bring more to the table than offensive production and gives the coaching staff the ability to balance-off the more defensive-oriented lines with a solid offensive threat.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Can someone explain the fascination these "experts" have with Milan Lucic? His temper and foot speed would kill us. With the big ice, any physical advantage people think he would bring becomes even less of a factor...

To those saying Martin St. Louis should be there, I agree 100%. Why would we leave our most consistently elite winger at home? Very disappointed he didn't make it last time, and MSL will make damn sure he's there this time. I don't think I'm being a homer in saying he is the best Canadian winger in the game.

Perry has been disappointing, to say the least. I agree with Mr. Writer in that we should leave both him and Getzlaf home.

Kind of a pet peeve of mine, but why is Nash never held to any sort of offensive standard? The only guy who consistently doesn't perform and is considered a lock. I know he played well in Vancouver, but it seems like hes getting a free ride here...

86Habs pretty much covered it all...but the only thing I'd like to add about Rich Nash is, under performed compared to whose expectations, yours? If you expect Nash to be the best player on the planet and be a 120 pt. player year in year out, then yes you'll be disappointed. Rick has some flaws, but they all do to a certain extent. All I can say is I see Nash as a consistent 30/30 plus guy for the 10 years he has been in the league and plus everything 86Habs already wrote.
re: international play google the IIHF 2007 WHC from Moscow. Nash's winning goal against the Finns. I was at that tournament sitting not 30 feet away watching that goal. Rick's stats are going to have to dive to Ovechkin like numbers before I take him off my Team Canada. (oops and before people get upset, I mean this year's Ovechkin numbers.) Last year, despite criticism, 38 goals wasn't a horrific year.

 

[86Habs]

86Habs pretty much covered it all...but the only thing I'd like to add about Rich Nash is, under performed compared to whose expectations, yours? If you expect Nash to be the best player on the planet and be a 120 pt. player year in year out, then yes you'll be disappointed. Rick has some flaws, but they all do to a certain extent. All I can say is I see Nash as a consistent 30/30 plus guy for the 10 years he has been in the league and plus everything 86Habs already wrote.
re: international play google the IIHF 2007 WHC from Moscow. Nash's winning goal against the Finns. I was at that tournament sitting not 30 feet away watching that goal. Rick's stats are going to have to dive to Ovechkin like numbers before I take him off my Team Canada. (oops and before people get upset, I mean this year's Ovechkin numbers.) Last year, despite criticism, 38 goals wasn't a horrific year.

Yeah, even now that he's out of Columbus and in a better situation in NY, playing with much better linemates, to me a 35-35-70 season while playing a well-rounded game under Torts would be a really good season for Nash, and about what I expect from him. I really don't think you can realistically expect anything much more than that from Nash.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't know who makes it but here are players that should NOT be on the roster:

MAF - are we seriously going to go up against Lundquist and Quick with Fleury in net?

Hamhuis/Myers/Schultz/Del Zotto - seriously?

 

[86Habs]

I don't know who makes it but here are players that should NOT be on the roster:

MAF - are we seriously going to go up against Lundquist and Quick with Fleury in net?

Hamhuis/Myers/Schultz/Del Zotto - seriously?

Can't imagine Fleury being anything more than the 3rd goaltender, like he was in 2010. He shouldn't see any ice in Sochi.

Hamhuis is off to a poor start (based on what I've seen), but he's a viable candidate for a bottom-pair role in my view. Really good skater, good puck mover, very strong defensively. Plus, he shoots LHed (Keith is our only LHed lock on defense, and Staal is the only other strong contender). The other guys shouldn't merit much consideration unless we get hit by injuries or they really step up their games.