Injury Report: 2014-2015 Injury Thread

[Foppa2118]

No, Wideman feels pressure and shields the puck with his butt, the right play IMHO. He does not see Winchester so it's not a hip check and surely not cheap. Winchester should have bumped Wideman with his shoulder instead of weakly lunging for the puck unbalanced.

Wideman is known for making big hits. He pretty clearly sees him and lunges into him. If he's just shielding him away from the puck, he just get corked around like that so hard, and Wideman doesn't come off his feet after the contact. I agree he should have went shoulder to shoulder though, that's fine. That's a battle for a loose puck that Winchester can brace himself for.

Nothing wrong with that play, Foppa.

I guess I'm the only one that sees a hip check on someone that hasn't touched the puck, as interference. A low hip check on an unsuspecting player skating right at the boards is a very dangerous play. There's no way to protect himself, and no way to expect that kind of hit. He'll get a head injury every time, and that's what the leagues trying to cut down on. Not that I think it's an obvious suspension or anything, just a cheap play.

I don't think he was trying to hurt him, but I think it was reckless, and showed the same kind of lack of respect for a fellow player that a hit from behind does. There's no care for the vulnerable position he's in, and instead of letting up, he finishes hard. It's like the difference between riding someone in a vulnerable position into the boards, and extending and finishing hard on a check from behind into the boards. There's more onus on the hitter these days.

 

[frog]

Wideman is known for making big hits. He pretty clearly sees him and lunges into him. If he's just shielding him away from the puck, he just get corked around like that so hard, and Wideman doesn't come off his feet after the contact. I agree he should have went shoulder to shoulder though, that's fine. That's a battle for a loose puck that Winchester can brace himself for.



I guess I'm the only one that sees a hip check on someone that hasn't touched the puck, as interference. A low hip check on an unsuspecting player skating right at the boards is a very dangerous play. There's no way to protect himself, and no way to expect that kind of hit. He'll get a head injury every time, and that's what the leagues trying to cut down on. Not that I think it's an obvious suspension or anything, just a cheap play.

I don't think he was trying to hurt him, but I think it was reckless, and showed the same kind of lack of respect for a fellow player that a hit from behind does. There's no care for the vulnerable position he's in, and instead of letting up, he finishes hard. It's like the difference between riding someone in a vulnerable position into the boards, and extending and finishing hard on a check from behind into the boards. There's more onus on the hitter these days.

The way I see it it, hockey is a rough game and that was a hockey play. It happens all the time but usually the players are more prepared. It was a preseason game so no one was really used to the physical game just yet I bet if it was in the middle of the season Winchester would have been more prepared. Sucks Winchester was injured but I wouldn't consider it dirty. Those were the kind of plays Forsberg, Foote, Blake etc... would do usually they would outmuscle the guy and win the battle but in this case he awkwardly fell and got injured which sucks but is what happens in a rough game sometimes. No ones fault just bad luck... Or else a 2 min penalty.

 

[ABasin]

I guess I'm the only one that sees a hip check on someone that hasn't touched the puck, as interference.

If the officials called a penalty every time a player got hit having never actually touching the puck, all 60 minutes of every NHL game would be played shorthanded. The play in question happens all of the time. Both players got to the puck at about the same time (Winchester's stick was what - a few inches from the puck when he went down?). At full speed, both players got to the puck at about the same time, Wideman played both the puck and the man at *just about* the same time, but he was positioned better than Winchester, so he won the battle. Not only do I think this was a clean play, but I think it was a heck of a defensive play by Wideman. This should not have been a penalty at all. They got there just about at the same time, Wideman put his ass into Winchester just about at the same time they both got to the puck. This happens along the defensive boards all game long in every NHL game. If he did that when Winchester was several feet away, that's completely different. But that's not what happened.

A low hip check on an unsuspecting player skating right at the boards is a very dangerous play.

They were both heading towards the boards, Foppa. And they were both heading that direction at about the same time. It was a fairly simultaneous play. Again, a play that happens an awful lot of times during a lot of games, though typically the hit is shoulder on shoulder, side to side. In this case, Wideman actually makes contact in the front of Winchester's body. And btw, the hip check was NOT low. In fact, Wideman's hip looks like it was actually higher than Winchester's hip at the point of contact. The only reason he got hurt, is that he lost his balance, in particular he really blew a tire in his left skate there. He lost his balance and got hurt. Unfortunate, but it happens.

Not a dirty play in the least. It was a good tough hockey play.

 

[Foppa2118]

If the officials called a penalty every time a player got hit having never actually touching the puck, all 60 minutes of every NHL game would be played shorthanded. The play in question happens all of the time. Both players got to the puck at about the same time (Winchester's stick was what - a few inches from the puck when he went down?). At full speed, both players got to the puck at about the same time, Wideman played both the puck and the man at *just about* the same time, but he was positioned better than Winchester, so he won the battle. Not only do I think this was a clean play, but I think it was a heck of a defensive play by Wideman. This should not have been a penalty at all. They got there just about at the same time, Wideman put his ass into Winchester just about at the same time they both got to the puck. This happens along the defensive boards all game long in every NHL game. If he did that when Winchester was several feet away, that's completely different. But that's not what happened.



They were both heading towards the boards, Foppa. And they were both heading that direction at about the same time. It was a fairly simultaneous play. Again, a play that happens an awful lot of times during a lot of games, though typically the hit is shoulder on shoulder, side to side. In this case, Wideman actually makes contact in the front of Winchester's body. And btw, the hip check was NOT low. In fact, Wideman's hip looks like it was actually higher than Winchester's hip at the point of contact. The only reason he got hurt, is that he lost his balance, in particular he really blew a tire in his left skate there. He lost his balance and got hurt. Unfortunate, but it happens.

Not a dirty play in the least. It was a good tough hockey play.

You're incorrect in that play happening all the time. Shoulder to shoulder hits for a loose puck happen all the time. This was an unconventional way to approach a loose puck, and the fact it was a low hip check is what caused him to fly into the boards, and turns this from a routine play, into a dangerous play. That hit almost never happens in a battle for a loose puck.

When a player hasn't touched the puck yet, there's a line between a battle for a loose puck, and interference, and it's usually determined by how you hit someone, and how hard. This falls into the interference category for me and crosses the line IMO. A player going for a loose puck isn't free game to do whatever you want to as if they had control of the puck.

 

[ABasin]

You're incorrect in that play happening all the time.

I don't think I am. The only thing that makes it somewhat unique is speed with which the players were moving when they got to the puck.

Shoulder to shoulder hits for a loose puck happen all the time. This was an unconventional way to approach a loose puck, and the fact it was a low hip check is what caused him to fly into the boards, and turns this from a routine play, into a dangerous play. That hit almost never happens in a battle for a loose puck.

Foppa, come on. Using one's ass/hip to gain position around (and keep an opponent from) a loose hockey puck most certainly does happen all of the time. Ryan O'Reilly does it 10 times a game. (That's a compliment.)

And again, that hit was not 'low'. You keep saying that, yet the video quite clearly shows the point of contact was above or at Winchester's waist. That isn't low. It is absolutely perfectly legal, unless you are hitting someone in the numbers on their back while he's facing the boards, or if another penalty occurs during the hit (high sticking, for example).

When a player hasn't touched the puck yet, there's a line between a battle for a loose puck, and interference, and it's usually determined by how you hit someone, and how hard.

Interference is determined by how hard you hit someone, or whether a hit is shoulder-to-shoulder or hip-to-hip?

Well, all I can say to that is I wholly disagree. Interference (in this respect - a player who hasn't touched the puck yet) is determined by how many seconds away or how far away from the puck contact is initiated, and to what degree the player who didn't initiate contact was impeded in his progress. If the first part is legal, then the second part is pretty much automatically legal as well (as long as some other penalty like elbowing or high sticking or something didn't occur).

In the play in question, those two players got to the puck at about the same time. Wideman positioned himself better, Winchester went down. That's really all there is to it.

 

[Nzap]

In the play in question, those two players got to the puck at about the same time. Wideman positioned himself better, Winchester went down. That's really all there is to it.

I agree.
But what I'm disappointed in, is that Wideman used such force in a pre-season game, where it really wasn't that necessary.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't think I am. The only thing that makes it somewhat unique is speed with which the players were moving when they got to the puck.



Foppa, come on. Using one's ass/hip to gain position around (and keep an opponent from) a loose hockey puck most certainly does happen all of the time. Ryan O'Reilly does it 10 times a game. (That's a compliment.)

And again, that hit was not 'low'. You keep saying that, yet the video quite clearly shows the point of contact was above or at Winchester's waist. That isn't low. It is absolutely perfectly legal, unless you are hitting someone in the numbers on their back while he's facing the boards, or if another penalty occurs during the hit (high sticking, for example).



Interference is determined by how hard you hit someone, or whether a hit is shoulder-to-shoulder or hip-to-hip?

Well, all I can say to that is I wholly disagree. Interference (in this respect - a player who hasn't touched the puck yet) is determined by how many seconds away or how far away from the puck contact is initiated, and to what degree the player who didn't initiate contact was impeded in his progress. If the first part is legal, then the second part is pretty much automatically legal as well (as long as some other penalty like elbowing or high sticking or something didn't occur).

In the play in question, those two players got to the puck at about the same time. Wideman positioned himself better, Winchester went down. That's really all there is to it.

Yes AB, there is much more to interference than simple distance from the puck. Kerry Fraser talked about it earlier in the year when he said it was always a fine line on Forsberg's patented reverse hits, on whether they were interference or not. Sometimes that hit can be interpreted as interference, sometimes not. And that's with someone coming directly at you to hit you.

You're using comparisons like O'Reilly's corner battles at a much slower speed where he uses his body to shield the puck, and the recipient isn't hit hard at all, as evidence of this play happening all the time. This play is totally different. There at a different part of the ice, they're traveling at an extremely high speed, and the hit sent Winchester flying into the boards causing a concussion.

You can make contact and battle with someone for a loose puck, but you're not allowed to approach the play, or hit them the same way you would if they had the puck.

The difference is in the details. In this case being the force applied on the hit, and it being an area he can't brace himself for, which would make it a battle for the puck on uneven terms. Winchester has no shot at this "battle" for the puck, he'll lose it every time. And yes he absolutely makes contact with his hip. If you want to call that area his obliques just above his waist (even though it's not totally clear) the hit plays out exactly the same in twisting his body around, that it would have right on the hip bone.

 

[Pokecheque]

Technically that's against the rules, yes, but that sort of play happens in the NHL all the time. I wouldn't characterize it as "dirty" per se. Just a very unfortunate result.

 

[Foppa2118]

Technically that's against the rules, yes, but that sort of play happens in the NHL all the time. I wouldn't characterize it as "dirty" per se. Just a very unfortunate result.

I guess the way I view it is, for the same reason a hitter coming for a blindside hit on a guy with his head down, has to let up now because the speed of the game is that much faster, and this results in that many more serious head injuries, Wideman should have realized his opponent was in an unprepared dangerous position next to the boards at that speed, and not extended on a hip check the way he did. It's just too easy for him to get seriously injured there like he did.

We don't see this type of play all the time because the exact reasons that make this hit different from other hits for loose pucks, are what caused the hit to result in the fashion it did. What separates it is the spot on the ice, the speed, and the force. If we saw this sort of play happen in the NHL all the time, there'd be serious head injuries every game.

 

[Foppa2118]

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, but I just caught Roy's radio show that aired a bit early this week, and he mentioned EJ's knee issues started in November. Impressive that he was able to play as well as he did with his knee bothering him for that long.

Also doesn't envision EJ's injury as major or something that he'll have to go through every year. Which makes sense, because usually when they clean things up with knee scopes they tend to help players for the years after rather than be a sign of future problems.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Didn't see this mentioned anywhere else, but I just caught Roy's radio show that aired a bit early this week, and he mentioned EJ's knee issues started in November. Impressive that he was able to play as well as he did with his knee bothering him for that long.

Also doesn't envision EJ's injury as major or something that he'll have to go through every year. Which makes sense, because usually when they clean things up with knee scopes they tend to help players for the years after rather than be a sign of future problems.

Shows you how much of a crazy Viking Johnson is. Dudes been our MVP on one leg since November.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Yeah EJ has been skipping practices for a while. Not exactly sure when that started but it had been a while. I feel like without the ASG maybe he wouldn't have got the MRI and would have kept pushing through it. So if that's a blessing or a curse I don't know.

 

[TheStranger]

Yeah EJ has been skipping practices for a while. Not exactly sure when that started but it had been a while. I feel like without the ASG maybe he wouldn't have got the MRI and would have kept pushing through it. So if that's a blessing or a curse I don't know.

Guess it depends. Is it something that can get worse? Something that can cause permanent problems? If yes to either of those, I'm glad he has sat down now rather than later or been a lesser player later.

 

[BobRossColton]

What's happened to Winchester?

 

[Nzap]

What's happened to Winchester?

Has been out entire season with a concussion sustained in a pre-season game against Calgary.

Or have I missed something new?

Also Tangs and Iggy with bruises, but are playing tomorrow.

 

[BobRossColton]

I knew of the concussion, I guess that's it. Wasn't he skating a bit awhile back?

 

[tigervixxxen]

I knew of the concussion, I guess that's it. Wasn't he skating a bit awhile back?

Yes, he was skating for a while because he would be fine at the practice facility but at the Pepsi Center with the big jumbotron and the lights it would bother him and he wasn't getting over the hump. So Roy said maybe 3-4 weeks ago that they were shutting Winchester down and he would not be doing any more on ice work. So I don't know what kind of timetable that leaves him but I doubt its anything this year.

 

[Cypher]

Man games lost

1. CBJ 300
2. COL 264
3. ANA 256
4. PIT 219
5. NJD 218
5. PHI 218
7. BUF 178

Wow...

Think of how good ANA would be without all those injuries

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

^ Where did you get those numbers from?

 

[Avsboy]

This increases the chance that the injury excuse is used if we don't make the playoffs.

 

[Cypher]

^ Where did you get those numbers from?

http://mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-chip-and-tmitt-january-31-2015/

 

[tigervixxxen]

I think we'll "win". I know Columbus has had a lot of injuries but considering Wilson, Winchester, McGinn and probably Bordy aren't coming back add in EJ and Rendulic who won't for a while then it will just keep racking up.

 

[Skip2myBordyloo]

http://mangameslost.com/nhl-man-games-lost-chip-and-tmitt-january-31-2015/

Awesome, thanks.

 

[Hennessy]

This increases the chance that the injury excuse is used if we don't make the playoffs.

The fact that they're even sniffing the PO after the start they had and these injuries....let 'em use whatever excuse they want to.

 

[Avsboy]

This team still has serious problems. Lack of depth in the prospect pool and lack of any semblance of good D. If they think this team got it together and needs only minor tweaks in the wake of an injury-plagued season, they're terribly wrong. They need to draft a bunch of big players and acquire at least one more game breaker on the backend. I'd be upset if the recent run and all the injuries would prevent any major changes.