Foot IIRC. He was in a boot. And I think it was before the playoffs.
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Speculation: 2014-15 Stars Trade Talk
- Thread starter BeaverSports
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Foot IIRC. He was in a boot. And I think it was before the playoffs.
David Castillo
Registered User
I'll try not to fight this fight all the time, but good lord. Nemeth will not make Dillon expendable. Dillon can boast 48 solid games, and a decent full season after his rookie year. Nemeth can boast less than 20 only because people seem to think that bringing in a different element to the D-core is the same as bringing in something good.
Let's wait and see what Nemeth actually is. I've been more impressed by Jokipakka from Texas to his preseason, to his brief stint with Dallas than I have been with Nemeth. But I realize I'm talking inside of a bubble on this one.
Dillon has struggled, but so has the whole team. Even if his regression turns out to be a pattern, he's on a good deal for what could be a great 3rd pair man who you don't need to shelter.
So what is your complaint about Nemeth? Your pretty much defending Dillion (who I'm a fan of) and saying Jokipakka was playing better at the exspense of Nemeth, but from what I remember Nemeth was probably the Stars best defensive Dman both to start the year and in the PLAYOFFS last year. Not saying he was the best all around Dman because Daley has been this year and Daley and Goligoski were really good in the playoffs last year. However, for Nemeth to step into the playoffs as a rookie and be as strong and defensively sound as he was with a junk partner if I recall correctly says a lot about him. Just wondering if you saw something different from me or if it's more your just not a fan of Nemeth, which is fine, personally I'd love to trade Goligoski. My pipe dream is Goligoski + for ROR.
glovesave_35
Name
Dillon looked good in his rookie year. His most common linemate was Robidas. Dillon hasn't looked good this season and part of last year. It's not a crazy train of thought I'm throwing out there.
Dallas Overhaul:
Waiver claim:
Schlemko
Send Down:
Oleksiak
Nemeth
Trade:
Nuke and Faksa to FLA for Gudbransson and Matheson
Daley Gudbransson
Goose Klingberg
Dillon Benn
Conn
Waiver claim:
Schlemko
Send Down:
Oleksiak
Nemeth
Trade:
Nuke and Faksa to FLA for Gudbransson and Matheson
Daley Gudbransson
Goose Klingberg
Dillon Benn
Conn
Dammit sorry couple drinks
Daley Gudbransson
Goose Schlemko
Dillon Klingberg
Benn
Connuaton sent down
I think you misunderstood me. It's not that Nemeth is necessarily a better player than Dillon, or that Dillon doesn't have value to the team right now, but rather that they fill similar roles and Nemeth has a much higher potential in that role.
Dillon will still have plenty of trade value after this season because of the way he came into the league, even if he has a miserable season. There was excitement about Dillon during his rookie year because he was an NHL-quality third (or second on a weak team) pairing dman. He seems to have reached his potential there. Nemeth has a brighter future as a top-four player in a similar physical defensive role.
If Klingberg turns into a top-4 guy, if Nemeth comes back and shows he is ready for the top 4, and/or if another d-man is added to the top four -- all very likely possibilities -- then Dillon becomes the expendable player over the offseason.
There is a reason that Eakin and Dillon both asked for the same two-year bridge contract, but Dillon was only offered one year. The writing is on the wall, barring a massive improvement from Dillon this season. There are too many guys fighting for NHL positions with more potential and lower salary than Dillon.
David Castillo
Registered User
Dillon will be only one year older than Nemeth in February. So the idea of one having more potential than the other is so slim as to be meaningless. Dillon is a drastically different player as well. Nemeth is pure stay at home, whereas Dillon has the capacity to drive play into multiple zones. It helps that Dillon is simply a superior puck handler. He's made some bone headed plays this season, but he also makes good subtle plays, and is capable of deking out a forechecker in his own zone.
People keep saying this to support Nemeth and the general thesis always seems to be vague: "didn't look out of place/clears crease/good in corners/has size."
Nemeth not looking out of place on a bad D-core is not a compliment. It just says he blended in with the mediocrity. Since no one here can catalogue and recall every single shift, it's nice to know that some places do precisely that. How can anyone ignore things like his -6.40 Fenwick Rel? Which means that despite his heavy usage in the offensive zone (63% this year, more than any other defender), his presence had no correlation with generating shot attempts or preventing shot attempts from being taken: hence why he finished in his own zone more often that not.
Correlation is not causation. I understand that. There are limitations to stats like Corsi, and Fenwick. I understand that too. Sometimes they confirm what we see, and sometimes that feel at odds with what we see. For example, Nemeth's Fenwick Rel number is actually lower than Aaron Rome's in Dallas. Am I about to argue that Nemeth is worse than Rome? Of course not. That's not what makes the numbers interesting.
What makes the numbers interesting is that they confirm my general impression about "defensive defenseman": barring outliers, they were critical in a different era, but as times change, so do certain roles and my impression (not my judgment - so please understand my nuance) of Nemeth is that he's a good defenseman playing in the wrong era.
Time will tell. Nemeth is slated to be back in March. If Oleksiak struggles, and Nemeth takes his place alongside Benn on the 3rd pair (however, if Oleksiak continues getting better, who will Nemeth replace?), I fully support his development and place on this team. However, I'm skeptical. No more, no less.
People keep saying this to support Nemeth and the general thesis always seems to be vague: "didn't look out of place/clears crease/good in corners/has size."
Nemeth not looking out of place on a bad D-core is not a compliment. It just says he blended in with the mediocrity. Since no one here can catalogue and recall every single shift, it's nice to know that some places do precisely that. How can anyone ignore things like his -6.40 Fenwick Rel? Which means that despite his heavy usage in the offensive zone (63% this year, more than any other defender), his presence had no correlation with generating shot attempts or preventing shot attempts from being taken: hence why he finished in his own zone more often that not.
Correlation is not causation. I understand that. There are limitations to stats like Corsi, and Fenwick. I understand that too. Sometimes they confirm what we see, and sometimes that feel at odds with what we see. For example, Nemeth's Fenwick Rel number is actually lower than Aaron Rome's in Dallas. Am I about to argue that Nemeth is worse than Rome? Of course not. That's not what makes the numbers interesting.
What makes the numbers interesting is that they confirm my general impression about "defensive defenseman": barring outliers, they were critical in a different era, but as times change, so do certain roles and my impression (not my judgment - so please understand my nuance) of Nemeth is that he's a good defenseman playing in the wrong era.
Time will tell. Nemeth is slated to be back in March. If Oleksiak struggles, and Nemeth takes his place alongside Benn on the 3rd pair (however, if Oleksiak continues getting better, who will Nemeth replace?), I fully support his development and place on this team. However, I'm skeptical. No more, no less.
Well I appreciate the response and I see where your coming from but I must agree with Satan (ah yeah) advanced stats in that time frame don't tell the story. Not to mention they were probably sheltering his partner more than they were him. There's a reason Gonchar is gone and KConn can't break into the lineup.
glovesave_35
Name
This entire quote is why I don't take your opinion on Nemeth seriously. To say that he is a pure stay at home defenseman who can't drive play in other zones is to deny everything he has shown since being up in Dallas. Bring all of your pretty stats to back up whatever you say but Nemeth routinely took the puck deep in the offensive zone, pinched at opportune times, and played an overall smart game in the offensive and neutral zones, much more so than Dillon has ever shown. Dillon is also not a superior puck handler by any means.
Your position on Nemeth is duly noted.
I agree with this completely! His awareness and positioning in the o zone goes unnoticed I think because he is one of the few stars Dman that shows good d positioning and awareness. I too am guilty of labeling him a defensive minded guy because it is refreshing to see a defender that actually played defense but he also did seem to know when to or not to pinch as good as anyone on the team.
David Castillo
Registered User
This is clearly a lost cause. I don't know why anyone would think a small sample size is the same as no information at all. We've seen Klingberg twice, yet is anyone crying "small sample size!!" just because he's been amazing? It's just information, and worth noting (not surprisingly, the "advanced stats" tell us what we already know: he's good with the puck). Nothing more. I just can't believe anybody could claim that Nemeth is better in all 3 zones than Dillon. Dillon has only been actively bad for a brief stretch of games (he was quietly good, sort of invisible but not radioactive early), and now Nemeth can replace what Dillon brings?
It'll be telling that once Nemeth returns, he'll barely be able to crack a roster spot. Daley, Dillon, Klingberg, Goligoski, Benn (say what you want, but everyone knows Benn isn't going anywhere), are staying, not counting some veteran/high profile signing. Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Connauton could easily have a lock on the 6 spot by March.
It'll be telling that once Nemeth returns, he'll barely be able to crack a roster spot. Daley, Dillon, Klingberg, Goligoski, Benn (say what you want, but everyone knows Benn isn't going anywhere), are staying, not counting some veteran/high profile signing. Oleksiak, Jokipakka, Connauton could easily have a lock on the 6 spot by March.
Hull Fan
The Future is Now
Don't beat me up too bad about Buff. I was under the impression that Winnipeg wanted to move him because they don't want him at defense and don't like him on offense. He seems like a guy who would be very available and despite how poorly Dillon has started the season he's still a good trade piece because of his size, age, and games played. He's not a rookie anymore. I have no doubt they'd prefer a forward but taking Dillon and moving something else or moving him to get a forward from their perspective isn't a bad idea. Maybe I have an over inflated value on Dillon and not enough appreciation for Buff but other than Myers, and Shattenkirk he's the most likely guy to be moved at an affordable price. The other two, if they're available at all would be far more expensive.
I appreciate your passion and what your saying and no doubt Dillon has shown more offense in his career than Nemeth, all I'm saying is in my opinion, your under valuing Nemeth. I also believe Benn's poor play has made Dillon look worse this year. Point being made now that Benn has been partnered with Daley, Dillon looks better.
The way Dallas is playing recently makes me think Dallas is really 1 big right handed Dman and 1 top 6 sniper away from being close to a top team in the league. Maybe even a second top 6 scorer is needed too idk. Hopefully, Nuke helps us fill a void there one way or the other.
I'll say it. I think Dillon has gone from "struggling" to really just not being a good hockey player.
I'm almost ready to jump on that bandwagon too. I'll give him a little more time though.
If he already thought he was worth big money I say trade him. I think he could be part of getting a really high quality player back. Someday he might be good but I'm not confident his play meshes with what the coaching staff wants or needs from it's defenders. He needs to be a physical player to be a major contributor to a winning team and it seems he's not being coached to be that here.
Cin
Eurosnob.
Cin
Eurosnob.
I'm officially on the trade Nuke train now.
This team needs defense so bad. It's worth losing out on a prospect.
Just not Myers.
This team needs defense so bad. It's worth losing out on a prospect.
Just not Myers.
I wish but no way they go for that. I was thinking Dillon + Nuke for Guds and top 6 young forward but that won't be Barkov unfortunately.
David Castillo
Registered User
Last season you might have been able to pull that off while Dale Tallon was giving Dave Bolland an inexplicable contract, and Dillon had yet to become Voldemort fetus, but not now.
Man the thought of Barkov centering a line behind Seguin though...
Unfortunately Lindy would just let Barkov center Benn and Seguin.
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