Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread XXVI: El Viaje Misterioso de Nuestro Jim Rutherford

[WayneSid9987]

I think JR will easily move some money out to make significant improvements where he deems its needed.

From Kunitz to Sutter to a Spaling or Downie.
I don't think he'll ship out a D but it's possible.

Give him some games here to see what he's got first.

 

[KIRK]

And the true irony here, of course, is he already has Ehrhoff's partner in Despres, and Bennett is just as good as any other rental option like a Santorelli or Winnik or Tlusty.

I will applaud any NHL team that is able to land Beau Bennett for a rental when the former's value is at an absolute low point. Kudos to them.

Maybe JR can find the next Chad LaRose and all will be right with the world.

Now you understand where this is heading . . .

 

[KIRK]

If we are really in on Santorelli, then we are moving Sutter. That would fit because we could be thinking Santo for now, then he walks and either Spaling or Sunqvist next year. As hesitant as I might be in trading for UFA's, I'm just as afraid of holding on to UFA's and getting nothing for them. Despite Maatta's absence, if we can get a Petry or a Fransen, I'd talk to the Ducks about Martin. If I could get Etem and a 1st. for Martin, I think I'd do it. Etem is built more for 3rd line duty than is Bennett. By getting back a 1st rounder, even if it is a low one, enables us to put our 2nd rounder in play, which we could move for Jagr, Winnik, Santo, or packaged for Petry/Fransen.

I would have no problem in something around Sutter for Santo. Not straight up. Something around.

Same goes for Vermette or Stoll for Sutter style deals.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Yeah it's quite strange how much talk there is about JR wanting to make this move and that move. Does the media not realize we have literally no cap space? Who in the hell are we going to move to add players? They won't move Martin with all the d injuries. They won't move Kunitz. They won't move Sutter. There's nobody else they'd move.

I'm just having a real hard time figuring out who we'd even move in a deal to make room for additions.

Martin, Kunitz, Sutter, Scuds. Moving any of them gives you at least 4m in cap space. I still maintain Methot is a better fit for this team than Martin, but whatever.

We know Martin has the biggest cap hit and the most value... And LA is still very interested. Flip Martin to the highest bidder, most likely futures. Now you have extra futures to land Methot and gain about 1.2m in cap space.

It can be done, old school. JR just has to be willing to break up the Get Along Gang.

1 million in annual salary that could be added any time between now and the deadline (the numbers of this have been explained).

You've got Beau at 900K.

Add a defenseman, say Borts, at 600K.

That's 2.5M you could add.

Winnik and Franson with some retention? Tlusty and Sekera would be really, really close with 50% retention?

See where I'm going with this.

Again, I am NOT making a proposition. My feelings on who should be moved are a matter of record. I'm only trying to highlight how much flexibility JR has without moving his precious vets.

It's not much, but it's more than nothing. Limited options, but he can get his partner for Ehrhoff and a top nine guy with say Bennett and Borts being odd men out.

Would YOU put that past JR?

I don't see any deal worth moving your only talented, cost controlled winger for.

JR has shown to be a man of his word and he said he wouldn't be wasting assets on rentals.

So we'll see.

 

[Captain Hook]

If we are really in on Santorelli, then we are moving Sutter. That would fit because we could be thinking Santo for now, then he walks and either Spaling or Sunqvist next year. As hesitant as I might be in trading for UFA's, I'm just as afraid of holding on to UFA's and getting nothing for them. Despite Maatta's absence, if we can get a Petry or a Fransen, I'd talk to the Ducks about Martin. If I could get Etem and a 1st. for Martin, I think I'd do it. Etem is built more for 3rd line duty than is Bennett. By getting back a 1st rounder, even if it is a low one, enables us to put our 2nd rounder in play, which we could move for Jagr, Winnik, Santo, or packaged for Petry/Fransen.

I don't think a Santo move has much to do with Sutter. Santo can play right wing or center. It's much more likely they'd play together than anything else. The off-season is a different story. Sutter needs an extension and the two sides could agree to part ways if Sutter doesn't want to sign here or they don't want him back.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

JR has shown to be a man of his word and he said he wouldn't be wasting futures on rentals.

So we'll see.

Really? He said that? Because his M.O. in Carolina was the exact opposite, no?

 

[Gurglesons]

Martin, Kunitz, Sutter, Scuds. Moving any of them gives you at least 4m in cap space. I still maintain Methot is a better fit for this team than Martin, but whatever.

We know Martin has the biggest cap hit and the most value... And LA is still very interested. Flip Martin to the highest bidder, most likely futures. Now you have extra futures to land Methot and gain about 1.2m in cap space.

Haven't we learned our lesson from Scuderi and Orpik with Letang? A traditional stay at home guy doesn't allow him to play. It is like trying to put a pure shooter with Crosby.

Plus with Ehrhoff and the insistence of playing Bort, do we really need another slow guy that can't move the puck?

 

[KIRK]

Martin, Kunitz, Sutter, Scuds. Moving any of them give you at least 4m in cap space. I still maintain Methot is a better fit for this team than Martin, but whatever.

We know Martin has the biggest cap hit and the most value... And LA is still very interested. Flip Martin to the highest bidder, most likely futures. Now you have extra futures to land Methot and gain about 1.2m in cap space.




I don't see any deal worth moving your only talented, cost controlled winger for.

JR has shown to be a man of his word and he said he wouldn't be wasting futures on rentals.

So we'll see.

Does he see Beau as a future? Borts? Dumo? Are these guys who management looks at and says 'yeah, next year, they're going to be part of the puzzle'? Sorry, I don't see that.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you think of moving Beau and say Borts for futures. But, really, I can see it happening, and it will take all of 5 seconds for media lap dogs to say 'well, they're young, maybe they'll get better, but they weren't seen as part of the future here'.

 

[Gurglesons]

Does he see Beau as a future? Borts? Dumo? Are these guys who management looks at and says 'yeah, next year, they're going to be part of the puzzle'? Sorry, I don't see that.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you think of moving Beau and say Borts for futures. But, really, I can see it happening, and it will take all of 5 seconds for media lap dogs to say 'well, they're young, maybe they'll get better, but they weren't seen as part of the future here'.

I think the combination of Johnston having a personal relationship with Beau and the fact he is really our only RFA wing, kind of makes it seem like they'll keep him.

Just because he was scratched doesn't meant they don't value him. Toffoli was scratched the last couple years and he was always a no in trades involving the Kings. They traded Simmonds over him.

 

[KIRK]

Really? He said that? Because his M.O. in Carolina was the exact opposite, no?

Jags, no bull****. Tell me if you could see this:

Tlusty and Sekera (both at @ 50%) and a conditional pick (say anywhere from a 2nd to none at all) for Bennett and Despres.

OR, Beau and Borts for Winnik and Franson (both @50% or whatever retention is necessary to make the numbers work)?

Again, not what you would do. Or I would do. Or Jiggy would do. Could you see JR doing this?

I see something like this as being a bit more likely than JR standing pat OR a ton more likely than moving a Sutter or a Kunitz.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Haven't we learned our lesson from Scuderi and Orpik with Letang? A traditional stay at home guy doesn't allow him to play. It is like trying to put a pure shooter with Crosby.

Plus with Ehrhoff and the insistence of playing Bort, do we really need another slow guy that can't move the puck?

Wait, what? First of all, Letang has had great stretches with Scuderi, Orpik AND Martin...not just Martin. He's also shown flashes with Maatta and even looked really good next to Harrington.

Secondly, if anything we need more toughness on the blueline not more puck movers. How many puck movers do you want? And Ehrhoff is slow?

Does he see Beau as a future? Borts? Dumo? Are these guys who management looks at and says 'yeah, next year, they're going to be part of the puzzle'? Sorry, I don't see that.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you think of moving Beau and say Borts for futures. But, really, I can see it happening, and it will take all of 5 seconds for media lap dogs to say 'well, they're young, maybe they'll get better, but they weren't seen as part of the future here'.

It's so frustrating.

 

[KIRK]

Wait, what? First of all, Letang has had great stretches with Scuderi, Orpik AND Martin...not just Martin. He's also shown flashes with Maatta and even looked really good next to Harrington.

Secondly, if anything we need more toughness on the blueline not more puck movers. How many puck movers do you want? And Ehrhoff is slow?




It's so frustrating.

Here's another version of frustrating:

What if they like Pouliot enough to envision him on a protected, limited minute third pairing, if only the Pens could get a Methot or a Sekera or a Petry to partner with Ehrhoff to complete a 2nd stud pairing (in THEIR minds)?

You telling me Despres wouldn't be available in THAT scenario, and 5 seconds later you'd hear how they never saw him as anything more than a third pairing defenseman?

Anyway, let's just say if you dust off the JR playbook, look at how different players are valued, and look at how certain run of the mill vets especially are valued . . .

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Jags, no bull****. Tell me if you could see this:

Tlusty and Sekera (both at @ 50%) and a conditional pick (say anywhere from a 2nd to none at all) for Bennett and Despres.

OR, Beau and Borts for Winnik and Franson (both @50% or whatever retention is necessary to make the numbers work)?

Again, not what you would do. Or I would do. Or Jiggy would do. Could you see JR doing this?

I see something like this as being a bit more likely than JR standing pat OR a ton more likely than moving a Sutter or a Kunitz.

If JR gave up two young cost controlled guys for two UFAs whom neither are superstars, he should be taken out to pasture.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Jags, no bull****. Tell me if you could see this:

Tlusty and Sekera (both at @ 50%) and a conditional pick (say anywhere from a 2nd to none at all) for Bennett and Despres.

OR, Beau and Borts for Winnik and Franson (both @50% or whatever retention is necessary to make the numbers work)?

Again, not what you would do. Or I would do. Or Jiggy would do. Could you see JR doing this?

I see something like this as being a bit more likely than JR standing pat OR a ton more likely than moving a Sutter or a Kunitz.

Absolutely.

If it were up to me, I'd call Cheveldayoff and ask if the first rounder he just acquired from Buffalo (either the Blues or Isles pick) is available...and ship Chevy's choice of Kunitz or Sutter to Wpg. Then I promote Bennett once and for all. And then see what else is out there with the added cap space.

Instead, like you say, the exact opposite is going to take place. And the funny part is wait until Dupuis recovers (and you know he will).

I think we're another K-C-D reunion and another Craig Adams re-signing away from me giving up on this team completely.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Does he see Beau as a future? Borts? Dumo? Are these guys who management looks at and says 'yeah, next year, they're going to be part of the puzzle'? Sorry, I don't see that.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with what you think of moving Beau and say Borts for futures. But, really, I can see it happening, and it will take all of 5 seconds for media lap dogs to say 'well, they're young, maybe they'll get better, but they weren't seen as part of the future here'.

Bort is on borrowed time, so whatever happens with him oh well.

Dumo I have no idea how they view him, but he is expendable.

BB has to be viewed in the same way Despres was, even though the fear mongering was being created by tools like Rossi last year. The difference is BB is an asset at an org weakness. If he is moved, their young top six winger depth goes from troublesome to laughable.

JR isn't a fool to me. He won't be that stupid. Moving BB for some bottom six UFA would be some all time flatlining.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Jiggy, I don't think the organization views wing as a weakness anymore. Kunitz is signed long term. Ditto Hornqvist. Perron is probably not going anywhere anytime soon. Dupuis is still under contract long term. We have Kapanen.

I doubt they view Bennett as highly as you or I or KIRK do.

 

[Gurglesons]

Absolutely.

If it were up to me, I'd call Cheveldayoff and ask if the first rounder he just acquired from Buffalo (either the Blues or Isles pick) is available...and ship Chevy's choice of Kunitz or Sutter to Wpg. Then I promote Bennett once and for all. And then see what else is out there with the added cap space.

Instead, like you say, the exact opposite is going to take place. And the funny part is wait until Dupuis recovers (and you know he will).

I think we're another K-C-D reunion and another Craig Adams re-signing away from me giving up on this team completely.

Why would we see KCD reunited?

Kunitz is one top six winger from being moved down to the third line.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Why would we see KCD reunited?

Kunitz is one top six winger from being moved down to the third line.

Uh-huh. If Sid wants them, we'll see it again. Regardless.

 

[Gurglesons]

Uh-huh. If Sid wants them, we'll see it again. Regardless.

Man, you guys are some jaded mother ****ers.

 

[Michael8771*]

I think JR will easily move some money out to make significant improvements where he deems its needed.

From Kunitz to Sutter to a Spaling or Downie.
I don't think he'll ship out a D but it's possible.

Give him some games here to see what he's got first.

At this point I have no issue moving Sutter. I doubt they'll do it but I would if the return is good.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Pascal Dupuis may well never play again and two years left on a deal is not long term in anyone's book. Except a weirdo who wants to make things up to complain about.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Sutter needs to go. Guy plays like he has a vajayjay.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Bennett is being traded for Brian Campbell at 80% retention so they can make room for John Scott's salary. It's so obvious.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Jiggy, I don't think the organization views wing as a weakness anymore. Kunitz is signed long term. Ditto Hornqvist. Perron is probably not going anywhere anytime soon. Dupuis is still under contract long term. We have Kapanen.

I doubt they view Bennett as highly as you or I or KIRK do.

Kunitz is 35 and on his last legs. If DK isn't a liar, the org knows it. If they have eyes, they know it. He already has a flat tire, and a wheel or two will be off next season.

Comeau is having a good year, but has been a journeyman to this point.

KK is 18 and looked like he was quite awhile away in the preseason.

They basically have Perron and Hornqvist.

People are just giving in to this fear mongering like last year with Despres. JR isn't senile like people think.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

JR isn't senile like people think.

I remain unconvinced.