Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread XVII : No wingers... just coal for Christmas

[Will Hunting]

Joffrey Lupul is injured again. Just saying.

 

[KIRK]

Joffrey Lupul is injured again. Just saying.

I'm convinced that he and Beau Bennett are the same person, which is why they never play on the same night.

I would be extremely happy with any one of Oshie, Perron, E Kane, Eberle, ROR.
To be honest, I would be pretty happy at this point with someone like Palmeiri.

I'd be happier with two.

One for Sid and Horny.

One for Geno and Comeau.

Leave Kunitz-Sutter-Bennett as a line. I mean, if the coach is going to refuse to play Bennett with Sid or Geno, then he can be nice enough to leave Malkin at center and keep Kunitz away from him and Sid.

EDIT:

XXXX-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-Comeau
Kunitz-Sutter-Bennett
Farnham-Goc-Downie

Now, given who's hurt, here's what I'd do. Downie comes back first, play him with Sid and Geno. Horny returns, either him with Sid and Geno or split them, Sid with Horny and Geno with Downie. Then, add those two guys by the end of January. Then, when Comeau returns, Comeau in for Downie, with Downie as next man up.

Guys I'm moving for those two XXXX. Martin, Spaling, a young defenseman.

 

[Jacob]

Would Edmonton do Sutter for Perron? The Penguins might have to add something to that, but not a whole lot. A 2nd round pick or a prospect like Wilson or Archibald. Not Dumoulin. I'm fairly certain that Spaling can step into Sutter's role and do nearly as well, and for like a million less to boot.

 

[mpp9]

Would Edmonton do Sutter for Perron? The Penguins might have to add something to that, but not a whole lot. A 2nd round pick or a prospect like Wilson or Archibald. Not Dumoulin. I'm fairly certain that Spaling can step into Sutter's role and do nearly as well, and for like a million less to boot.

Sutter has shown he has legit goal scoring ability. And it can be further exploited playing with BB.

I have not seen anything close from Spaling or Goc. Both of them have played with Sid, Geno and BB at different times.

 

[Will Hunting]

I'm convinced that he and Beau Bennett are the same person, which is why they never play on the same night.

Wow, good point Bennett comes back and Lupul immediately comes off. Now, what´s the timeline on Lupul´s injury?? We may get our much needed answer there...

 

[Jacob]

Sutter has shown he has legit goal scoring ability. And it can be further exploited playing with BB.

I have not seen anything close from Spaling or Goc. Both of them have played with Sid, Geno and BB at different times.

I'd rather Perron exploit Crosby's scoring ability than Bennett exploit Sutter's.

We need our 3rd line center to be sound defensively, win face-offs and chip in 30-35 points at ES. Spaling can do that. What's Sutter, a 40 point guy? In a good year?

 

[mpp9]

I'd rather Perron exploit Crosby's scoring ability than Bennett exploit Sutter's.

We need our 3rd line center to be sound defensively, win face-offs and chip in 30-35 points at ES. Spaling can do that. What's Sutter, a 40 point guy? In a good year?

It isn't just raw regular season stats. I have very little faith that Goc or Spaling will help win us a big playoff game or turn the tide in a series. Sutter has stepped up for the team in the past. And if paired with a playmaker like BB, Sid and Geno could go on a dry spell for a few games and we wouldn't be totally ****ed.

Downie-Sutter-BB could have a similar impact as Cooke-Staal-TK in 09.

There are other trade possibilities out there. I just don't get the urge to move a good young forward over trading from our surplus.

I'd sooner move futures than Sutter. If Sutter won't re-sign, move him in the summer.

 

[Riptide]

Did he?

As of the 27th, I'd only heard that the Kings asked for more time:

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/667290

Heard it somewhere (can't remember where) that the Kings had asked for more time, and he'd granted it.

 

[Riptide]

If we got Williams and then brought in a complementary tweener type like VM said, I think that would be pretty decent.

Yup. Wouldn't be my first choice, but it would mean we're at least getting value for Martin, and someone who should be able to help us.

 

[mpp9]

I like the Williams idea even if it means he's a pure rental. He's money in the postseason. And he'll be playing for his retirement contract. That's definitely worth Paul Martin and a little more if necessary.

 

[Riptide]

Rob Mixer @RobMixer
#CBJ have signed Nick Foligno to a six-year extension: http://bluejackets.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=746486

Unfortunate, but not really a surprise.

Sucks that the going rate for a 40 point winger is 5.5 mil + long term.

You're paying for a lot more with him then the points he puts up. I would have been quite content paying him that to play here. A tad steep... but I would have sucked it up.

 

[Riptide]

If we could get Williams, I'd still want to go after another long term top-6 forward like Perron. Especially if we can get Williams just for Martin without adding. Adding Williams and Perron may let us solve our top-6 issues for the next few years without losing any of the big-4 D prospects (Martin for Williams and 1st for Perron), which would be huge. A big reason I wanted a legit top-6 guy and a complementary top-9 guy was because it would be affordable, which is probably the biggest driving force. I wouldn't want to empty all of our trading assets right now to bring in 2 guys like Kane and Eberle.

That's not going to happen. I'm not sure why people do not understand this... but Edmonton doesn't need futures. And they don't really need D prospects - although they might make an exception to Pouliot or Harrington, we would still be adding something significant.

 

[Riptide]

Absolutely, but it will be tough to find a long-term option right now. I think it's more likely we get a long-term winger during the draft.

While I understand EVERYONE wants a long term option... there's absolutely NOTHING wrong with getting someone who's in their late 20s/early 30s who can help us for 3-5 years. That just gives management more options, and less pressure to make the right move.

 

[Riptide]

He has never hit 50 points in a season, and he's having a career year this year. This deal will be fine if he keeps up this level of production, but it's entirely possible that he reverts back to his 45 point grinder form. That deal would look bad for Columbus. It's similar to the Niskanen signing last year. If he continues to play like a #2/3, the deal is fine. If he reverts back into a #4/5 like he was in every other season other than last year, it will be really bad. It seems to have worked for the Caps so far though.

He's also never received consistent 1st line minutes and top PP time. Do I expect him to be a consistent 30g/60 pt guy? Not really... but 25g/50 pts while playing his physical brand isn't bad for that contract.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I'm convinced that he and Beau Bennett are the same person, which is why they never play on the same night.

That would be a sick movie idea.

XXXX-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-Comeau
Kunitz-Sutter-Bennett
Farnham-Goc-Downie

I'm all for it post trades, but I'd try Kunitz with Sid and Geno for now, at least til Horny comes back, since Rust clearly does not have what it takes to play with Sid (despite Steigy hyping him and their fake chemistry up all night).

 

[SEALBound]

That's not going to happen. I'm not sure why people do not understand this... but Edmonton doesn't need futures. And they don't really need D prospects - although they might make an exception to Pouliot or Harrington, we would still be adding something significant.

Yes they do. The state of their organization right now...it doesn't matter. They are not competing anytime soon thus they can use futures. Simple as that.

Sutter for Perron makes sense for them...but something tells me JR thought that was too expensive.

 

[roquay]

Yes they do. The state of their organization right now...it doesn't matter. They are not competing anytime soon thus they can use futures. Simple as that.

Sutter for Perron makes sense for them...but something tells me JR thought that was too expensive.

I agree they don't want to be winning anymore games this year so picks for Perron would be ok

 

[LiffLaff]

I would love to see something like this:

RoR/Perron/Eriksson - Sid - Hornquist
Comeau - Geno - Jagr
Kunitz - Sutter - Bennett
Spaling - Goc - Downie

Don't know how to get it done tho, but that would make us a instant favorite in the east at least in my mind.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Not real big on Eriksson.
Would rather Tlusty.

Perron and ROR sure though.

 

[Riptide]

Yes they do. The state of their organization right now...it doesn't matter. They are not competing anytime soon thus they can use futures. Simple as that.

Sutter for Perron makes sense for them...but something tells me JR thought that was too expensive.

No they don't. Other than at centre where they're very weak, they wouldn't have room for any of our prospects to play in their lineup.

Their blueline (which other than Sutter is all we realistically can offer them) based on minutes played looks like this:
Schultz (37) 21:29
Petry (37) 21:10
Ference (35) 20:36
Nikitin (23) 19:52
Fayne (38) 18:16
Hunt (11) 19:29
Klefbom (16) 21:18
Marincin (12) 17:31
Aulie (13) 12:24
Davidson (4) 14:12
Nurse (2) 16:50

Now their top 6 (based on games played) is something like Petry, Schultz, Ference, Nikitin and Fayne. The last spot seems to be rotated between Hunt and the rookies, Klefbom and Marincin.

Outside of Maatta or Despres, none of our rookies will crack that lineup other than for injuries. Our rookies (Harrington, Dumoulin and Pouliot) are not currently any better than Marincin or Klefbom. And if you were to rank them based on potential, only Pouliot would be clear cut ahead of their current prospects - and then he'd still likely be tied with Nurse. I know this won't be popular... but Edmonton has some very good D prospects - and those 2 in particular would likely look just as good as ours have if they had the same support ours have had around them.

When you get to their forward/winger situation, it's a little different... but then that begs the question... why would they trade Yakupov or Perron for some combination of KK, 1st, Sundqvist, etc? They wouldn't. Those players are all under contract/control, and there's no real rush to shop them - especially for futures that won't help them anytime soon.

Do you know why Edmonton's fans are up in arms? Because the team sucks today and has been for a while. This isn't about contending... it's about the team taking that next step to move past that of a lotto pick to challenge for a playoff spot. You cannot do that when you move players for futures. They'll probably trade some for futures (guys with little value or pending FAs), but their stars (Eberle, Perron, Yak, etc) they will not. They'll be hockey trades where the difference is made up with a prospect/pick. But the key piece will be an established NHL player - or someone who's at least proven to be NHL ready who looks like they'll break out.

They most certainly will not trade Perron for something like Dumoulin and a 1st.

I'll add one exception in here. IF they move their 1st/futures for an established player (say for Pavelski, or someone like that), THEN I could see them trading a player for futures to get back some picks. But as it stands today, that doesn't make ANY sense for them.

 

[penguins2946*]

That's not going to happen. I'm not sure why people do not understand this... but Edmonton doesn't need futures. And they don't really need D prospects - although they might make an exception to Pouliot or Harrington, we would still be adding something significant.

Edmonton fans were the ones that suggested a Perron for futures deal, so I assume they know what they're talking about. I think they would do anything to ensure they get as high of a pick as they can. While they are weak in centers right now, that will disappear pretty fast when they get McEichel. I don't think they would move Perron for a center until they figure out what will happen with the draft. They will have McEichel and RNH as their top-6 centers (and Draisaitl as their 3C), and trading Perron for a center would become pointless. They will already probably have to move Draisaitl either to the wing or just in general for D/G help.

He's also never received consistent 1st line minutes and top PP time. Do I expect him to be a consistent 30g/60 pt guy? Not really... but 25g/50 pts while playing his physical brand isn't bad for that contract.

It's still really expensive for a guy who has never hit 25 goals or 50 points.

 

[Riptide]

Edmonton fans were the ones that suggested a Perron for futures deal, so I assume they know what they're talking about. I think they would do anything to ensure they get as high of a pick as they can. While they are weak in centers right now, that will disappear pretty fast when they get McEichel. I don't think they would move Perron for a center until they figure out what will happen with the draft. They will have McEichel and RNH as their top-6 centers (and Draisaitl as their 3C), and trading Perron for a center would become pointless. They will already probably have to move Draisaitl either to the wing or just in general for D/G help.

We talk about trading Martin and Scuderi. Unfortunately it doesn't mean much.

If Draisaitl is going to be the #3C, then why would they move Perron at all? They'll still need a winger like him.

 

[deakka]

I don't see why we can't make a lesser move now. One of our defensive prospects for a guy in similar position. For example: Namenstinkov, Baertschi, Connolly .

We won't be able to fit everyone. Especially if the rumours of an extension of Ehrhoff are true.

We could also move Martin which would be better. But his cap are a problem since we most likely would have to take more salary back than the examples above. That's why I would move a prospect for a prospect as the first move.

 

[WVP]

I would love to see something like this:

RoR/Perron/Eriksson - Sid - Hornquist
Comeau - Geno - Jagr
Kunitz - Sutter - Bennett
Spaling - Goc - Downie

Don't know how to get it done tho, but that would make us a instant favorite in the east at least in my mind.

I like it, a lot actually. A bigger acquisition + Jagr as the secondary addition is interesting. I really wonder how Jagr would co-exist with Malkin and not being the man but I'd certainly hate to try and get the puck off those two. You'd think he'd be available for a 2nd round pick/mid level prospect type of value.

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Comeau - Malkin - Jagr
Kunitz - Sutter - Bennett
Downie - Goc - Spaling/Klinkhammer/Adams/Farnham

Crosby gets a mega upgrade in puck skills on his line with Perron. The 3rd line is now a legitimate scoring option. And a 4th line anchored by Goc and Downie becomes one of the best in the league. MJ could roll 4 lines all night with no problem.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't see why we can't make a lesser move now. One of our defensive prospects for a guy in similar position. For example: Namenstinkov, Baertschi, Connolly .

We won't be able to fit everyone. Especially if the rumours of an extension of Ehrhoff are true.

We could also move Martin which would be better. But his cap are a problem since we most likely would have to take more salary back than the examples above. That's why I would move a prospect for a prospect as the first move.

I've been talking about Shore for a few months now and Friedman just said there is a chance he gets moved:

10. One under-the-radar name to watch out for on the trade market: Florida prospect Drew Shore, who turns 24 next month.

Shore, who leads AHL San Antonio with 20 assists and 27 points, loses his waiver-free status with two more NHL games played, or, at the end of this season, whichever comes first (credit to CapGeek for a little help). Centres are hard to find, but when you’ve got Aleksander Barkov and Nick Bjugstad blocking your way, there’s not enough room for him in Florida.

Shore’s being scouted more than normal.

This is a guy I've wanted in a Pens uniform for awhile. When he was up last season, he looked really good, as usual. It's just one of those cases where a guy is being buried because of depth, like Harrington for example. Shore can play in this league. He's a really smart player that will improve any line he is on.

Shore isn't a great finisher. That's the knock on him and what is keeping him from being a second line player. However, I'm looking at him as a big bodied presence for the third line. He is really slick with the puck and is a fantastic playmaker. He also is a top notch PK guy with very good defensive accumen. He can also play wing.

I think his presence would give the team a lot of flexibility as well. He can play third pivot and make Sutter expendable in a trade, or he can help replace BB's playmaking on the third line and allow BB to move up into the top six. If not, a third line of Sutter, BB and Shore would be a lot of fun to watch.

This is one of those under the radar trades that I think could really change the complexion of this team. If JR could find a way to bring him in without giving up substantial assets, I'd be stoked as hell. I absolutely love Shore.