Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread V | All UFA/trade talk, speculation here

[drpepper]

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - Bennett
Downie - Goc/Spaling - Dupuis
Adams - Goc/Spaling - Comeau

Definitely 2 very different groups of players on the top 2 lines. 3 buzzsaws on L1 and 3 high skill guys on L2. Though Perron and Bennett are more physical than they're given credit for (Bennett's health aside)....

That's a good top 6, but assuming you've traded Sutter, the 3rd has been downgraded in a big way. Still better than last year though...

I don't see any reason why EDM wants Sutter. Sutter is not a good enough playmaker or center to be what they need as a 2C. They have two bottom 6 centers - Arcobello and Gordon - who can do the things that Sutter does well.

In addition, mistake as it may be, it sound like the Oilers have decided to keep Draisaitl as a 2C further reducing the need for Sutter.

EDM may be interested in Sutter + Despres for Perron as an upgrade for Arcobello and to get a young, cost-controlled big dman. But is that a deal that actually benefits the Pens? And is it a deal that EDM does this year instead of waiting until next year when Yak's development should make Perron redundant?

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - Bennett
Downie - Goc/Spaling - Dupuis
Adams - Goc/Spaling - Comeau

Definitely 2 very different groups of players on the top 2 lines. 3 buzzsaws on L1 and 3 high skill guys on L2. Though Perron and Bennett are more physical than they're given credit for (Bennett's health aside)....

That's a good top 6, but assuming you've traded Sutter, the 3rd has been downgraded in a big way. Still better than last year though...

That is a very good, and very attainable top 6. And you're right, both BB and Perron can play the body well. Bennett was the puck retriever on the Malkin and Neal line for a bit last year, and looked good in that role, while that line was together.

I think Perron-Malkin-BB would be a very well balanced line, and while we don't have a 2012 Kunitz there, both wingers would take turns eagerly fighting for pucks and winning puck battles for Geno...unlike on the JJ-Malkin-Neal line, where neither winger would win/partake in many battles.

Also, while I would line them up initially just like your lineup above, keep in mind that BB, Perron, and Horny can all play both sides very well. Which means we have a ton of options:

Kunitz - Crosby - Hornqvist
Perron - Malkin - Bennett

Kunitz - Malkin - Hornqvist
Perron - Crosby - Bennett

Kunitz - Crosby - Perron
Bennett - Malkin - Hornqvist

Kunitz - Malkin - Perron
Bennett - Crosby - Hornqvist

Perron - Malkin - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Crosby - Bennett

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - Bennett

^Pick your favourite

And that's without moving Horny to LW, which Johnston seems against doing, judging by his preseason comments. But if we explore that route, we have even more options to try. Lord knows Bylsma would have had an aneurysm with this, and would simply have stuck Dupuis in there somewhere to solve his "to many options" dilemma.

Importantly, I don't think the third line is affected much at all. Yes you are downgrading Sutter, but you are also bumping Dupuis down to line 3, which will be a big boost considering he is still a perfect third liner at this stage of his career.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

I don't see any reason why EDM wants Sutter. Sutter is not a good enough playmaker or center to be what they need as a 2C. They have two bottom 6 centers - Arcobello and Gordon - who can do the things that Sutter does well.

In addition, mistake as it may be, it sound like the Oilers have decided to keep Draisaitl as a 2C further reducing the need for Sutter.

EDM may be interested in Sutter + Despres for Perron as an upgrade for Arcobello and to get a young, cost-controlled big dman. But is that a deal that actually benefits the Pens? And is it a deal that EDM does this year instead of waiting until next year when Yak's development should make Perron redundant?

If EDM falls off the rails and tanks it again, we could offer them a host of packages. some including Sutter, some not.

If EDM is in the thick of the playoff hunt, I think Martin would suddenly interest them too (perhaps Martin+Sutter for Perron++), since he could finally get MacT into the playoffs this year, which would absolve all his faults in the eyes of the Oilers fanbase.

Personally I hope they tank, as striking a deal with them then would be more likely (and Perron is also more likely to want out at that stage).

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Don't worry Edmonton's not going anywhere. I do agree there may be a deal there for both teams (and other teams as well though).

 

[drpepper]

If EDM falls off the rails and tanks it again, we could offer them a host of packages. some including Sutter, some not.

If EDM is in the thick of the playoff hunt, I think Martin would suddenly interest them too (perhaps Martin+Sutter for Perron++), since he could finally get MacT into the playoffs this year, which would absolve all his faults in the eyes of the Oilers fanbase.

Personally I hope they tank, as striking a deal with them then would be more likely (and Perron is also more likely to want out at that stage).

I don't think the EDM fanbase would accept a tank this year after all their top draft picks. Now falling off the rails is more probable, but I think the coach, GM and other players (Yak, for example) are more likely to go first. Plus, if they are off the rails, Sutter is still not really an attractive piece.

I would imagine that EDM is on Martin's no trade list. Even if Martin's limited NTC only includes 6 teams, I would assume EDM, CGY, WPG, NJD, and BUF are on that list.

 

[Richard]

Maybe we can trade Edmonton Fleury??

hahah

I'd be totally fine going into the playoffs with Griess. Fleury sucks and needs outta Pittsburgh as soon as possible.

 

[SprootsMasterFlex]

https://twitter.com/NHLAdamK/status/527206929081577473

Adam Kimelman @NHLAdamK

Scouts from PIT (2), MTL (2), BUF, MIN, COL, WPG, WSH, STL, DET, DAL, VAN, CGY in for Kings-Flyers. I assume it's the press box gummy worms

 

[penguins2946*]

https://twitter.com/NHLAdamK/status/527206929081577473

Adam Kimelman @NHLAdamK

Scouts from PIT (2), MTL (2), BUF, MIN, COL, WPG, WSH, STL, DET, DAL, VAN, CGY in for Kings-Flyers. I assume it's the press box gummy worms

Why would the Pens be scouting either of those teams? We won't trade with Philly and LA is really tight against the cap.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Why would the Pens be scouting either of those teams? We won't trade with Philly and LA is really tight against the cap.

Teams scout for more reasons than just trades. We're playing the Kings tomorrow.

 

[drpepper]

Why would the Pens be scouting either of those teams? We won't trade with Philly and LA is really tight against the cap.

Scouting the Kings for the game tomorrow would be my guess.

 

[penguins2946*]

Teams scout for more reasons than just trades. We're playing the Kings tomorrow.

Scouting the Kings for the game tomorrow would be my guess.

I forgot we were playing them tomorrow. Never mind then

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Why would the Pens be scouting either of those teams? We won't trade with Philly and LA is really tight against the cap.

If and thats a big IF its about trade scouting, LA might be considering Scuds, he played well there and his cap hit is in line with a guy like Williams. I don't think it would take a huge plus on the Pens side to figure something out.

And before someone goes off on a tangent about how awesome Williams is lets remember he averages .64 points per game in the regular season and .67 points per game in the playoffs. Yes he had an awesome playoffs last year (winning the Conn Smythe) but that doesn't change who he is and what value he has. Lets also not forget hes a 33 year old pending UFA.

 

[penguins2946*]

LA might be considering Scuds, he played well there and his cap hit is in line with a guy like Williams. I don't think it would take a huge plus on the Pens side to figure something out.

And before someone goes off on a tangent about how awesome Williams is lets remember he averages .64 points per game in the regular season and .67 points per game in the playoffs. Yes he had an awesome playoffs last year (winning the Conn Smythe) but that doesn't change who he is and what value he has. Lets also not forget hes a 33 year old pending UFA.

Scuderi is treading really close to us having to add to trade him. There's not a chance in hell that they move Williams for Scuderi. I doubt Scuderi would waive for LA in the first place (he signed here because he wanted to be closer to home), and his value is drastically lower than Williams'.

If Bennett gets hurt again once he comes back, I'd look to move Dumoulin for a similar young forward. Someone like Vey, Zucker or Paajarvi.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Why would the Pens be scouting either of those teams? We won't trade with Philly and LA is really tight against the cap.

If a trade makes us better, we shouldn't care who we are trading with.

 

[penguins2946*]

If a trade makes us better, we shouldn't care who we are trading with.

They really don't have anything worthwhile for us to trade for though, other than the guys who won't be moved. Simmonds and Voracek aren't going anywhere, and Read is probably the best option after that. He is just more of what we have already. Anyway, neither team would willingly make a deal with the other.

 

[Ogrezilla]

They really don't have anything worthwhile for us to trade for though, other than the guys who won't be moved. Simmonds and Voracek aren't going anywhere, and Read is probably the best option after that. He is just more of what we have already. Anyway, neither team would willingly make a deal with the other.

fair enough, but every time a trade proposal comes up with a team in the east somebody feels the need to say we won't trade with teams in the east.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Scuderi is treading really close to us having to add to trade him. There's not a chance in hell that they move Williams for Scuderi. I doubt Scuderi would waive for LA in the first place (he signed here because he wanted to be closer to home), and his value is drastically lower than Williams'

To fans sure, Scuds value is vastly underrated because of the Dumpster Fire he was here last year (not to mention the frustration of log jamming younger players) but the 4 years of good play in LA ( I believe they tried to resign him IIRC) and his improved plays so far this year will outweigh anything from last year.

Williams (because of his great playoffs last year) is also overrated. 25 games does not change what the guy has been for the last 8 years of his career. Which is a low 50s point complimentary player. Which is nothing to sneeze at but nothing special either.

AS much as fans hae Scuderi, Gms see value there in defensive defenseman despite there liited puck skills or physical talents.. That's why he had multiple offers when he was a FA, (see also Brooks Orpik) and 3.385 ain a whole lot of money thee days (see also Brooks Orpik and Derek Engellend)

 

[penguins2946*]

fair enough, but every time a trade proposal comes up with a team in the east somebody feels the need to say we won't trade with teams in the east.

I know exactly what you're talking about. I got that reasoning from a lot of people when the Martin for Killorn deal was being talked about here.

To fans sure, Scuds value is vastly underrated because of the Dumpster Fire he was here last year (not to mention the frustration of log jamming younger players) but the 4 years of good play in LA ( I believe they tried to resign him IIRC) and his improved plays so far this year will outweigh anything from last year.

Williams (because of his great playoffs last year) is also overrated. 25 games does not change what the guy has been for the last 8 years of his career. Which is a low 50s point complimentary player. Which is nothing to sneeze at but nothing special either.

What Scuderi did 2-5 years ago is irrelevant at this point. He sucks right now, so they wouldn't want him unless we're retaining salary.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I know exactly what you're talking about. I got that reasoning from a lot of people when the Martin for Killorn deal was being talked about here.



What Scuderi did 2-5 years ago is irrelevant at this point. He sucks right now, so they wouldn't want him unless we're retaining salary.

To you sure but definitely not to the GM that he just played for in those years. Brooks Orpik is a perfect example. Most fans on here wanted him traded just to get him out of the lineup last year. Yet he goes into FA and gets a lot of interest, multiple good offers and at least 1 huge deal. And what got him that contract? Being a bigger version of Scuderi that palyed without an ankle injury.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't see any reason why EDM wants Sutter. Sutter is not a good enough playmaker or center to be what they need as a 2C. They have two bottom 6 centers - Arcobello and Gordon - who can do the things that Sutter does well.

In addition, mistake as it may be, it sound like the Oilers have decided to keep Draisaitl as a 2C further reducing the need for Sutter.

EDM may be interested in Sutter + Despres for Perron as an upgrade for Arcobello and to get a young, cost-controlled big dman. But is that a deal that actually benefits the Pens? And is it a deal that EDM does this year instead of waiting until next year when Yak's development should make Perron redundant?

Arcobello is terrible. They can't be serious about a playoff run with what they currently have at center. Keeping Draisaitl isn't a terrible decision, per se, but relying on him to be a No. 2 center this season would be. And he's really only the No. 2 center in theory. Gordon sees the most ice time at center on that team, and Arcobello tends to play more than Draisaitl too.

They'd be ecstatic to have a guy like Brandon Sutter right about now. He could be their Ryan Kesler, minus the douchebaggery.

And don't forget the name 'Sutter' carries a LOT of weight in Western Canada.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

To clarify, im not saying Scuds is good or that Williams isn't better. Im saying NHL GMs value Scuderi type players, and Williams is being overrated because of last years playoffs. If Rutherford just wanted rid of Scuderi he could have gotten something for him already. Even if its just an equally bad F player/contract to change scenery and get younger D in the lineup.

 

[drpepper]

Arcobello is terrible. They can't be serious about a playoff run with what they currently have at center. Keeping Draisaitl isn't a terrible decision, per se, but relying on him to be a No. 2 center this season would be. And he's really only the No. 2 center in theory. Gordon sees the most ice time at center on that team, and Arcobello tends to play more than Draisaitl too.

They'd be ecstatic to have a guy like Brandon Sutter right about now. He could be their Ryan Kesler, minus the douchebaggery.

And don't forget the name 'Sutter' carries a LOT of weight in Western Canada.

Kesler is a legit 2C; Sutter isn't. That comparison is laughable.

So for a moderate upgrade at center, EDM is trading one of their more dependable and consistent wingers on offense and defense? And you are still expecting that team to make the play-offs with Sutter instead of Perron?

I wouldn't be buying if I was EDM. Sutter in and Perron out doesn't make them a better team.

 

[Boocock]

I cannot see a single trade the Pens and Kings would be willing to make. Both teams are facing similar cap issues (see: one less skater last night) and need to hold on to their depth players.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Kesler is a legit 2C; Sutter isn't. That comparison is laughable.

So for a moderate upgrade at center, EDM is trading one of their more dependable and consistent wingers on offense and defense? And you are still expecting that team to make the play-offs with Sutter instead of Perron?

I wouldn't be buying if I was EDM. Sutter in and Perron out doesn't make them a better team.

It doesn't matter whether Sutter is a legit 2C or not, the perception is that he still might be. That's often all you need.

I don't think the Oilers will trade Perron, so I'm not even talking about him. I think they'll deal Yakupov, sooner or later.

 

[Hottubber]

Kesler is a legit 2C; Sutter isn't. That comparison is laughable.

So for a moderate upgrade at center, EDM is trading one of their more dependable and consistent wingers on offense and defense? And you are still expecting that team to make the play-offs with Sutter instead of Perron?

I wouldn't be buying if I was EDM. Sutter in and Perron out doesn't make them a better team.

I disagree. Sutter helps out their center position more than Perron helps out on the wing. Perron as been playing on the 2nd and 3rd line this year with who as his center? With Hall, Eberle, Yak, Purcell and Pouliot, they have enough guys to step in if he left