Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster building thread - Part VII

[KIRK]

I was thinking your Sutter situation would be comparable to Hawks Brouwer situation

A guy who wants too much $$$ for position that is already deep on Pens and team would be better off improving elsewhere

Hawks sent Brouwer as RFA to Caps for 1st rounder because they had several wing prospects (Saad/Shaw) close to NHL and guys like Frolik/Bickell/etc already on NHL roster

Pens don't really have the internal guy, but, as I said, even in that case paying Sutter more than like some 3M bridge deal is a luxury on a team with more pressing needs up front.

I'll put it this way: IF JR sees it similarly, then what you're proposing is perfectly reasonable.

 

[IcedCapp]

meh, if all we can get for Brandon Sutter is a late 1st rounder, I'd honestly rather just keep him if at all possible.

Even if he wants "a lot", I don't think he has any leg to stand on for anything close to $5MM

 

[pensfan71]

Hasn't Morin been in the doghouse for a while? But I think that late 1st is a decent start, but I think we'd want more for Sutter since Rutherford loved him.

Unless JR thinks Sutter is a 2C, maybe he can convince some other poor schmuck that too and someone will overpay. I mean Sutter could easily be a 2C on the Hawks, they could run a top 6 of:
Sharp-Toews-Hossa
Saad-Shaw/Sutter-Kane

Sutter can slide up and down that line up. It's a good idea and hopefully they'd explore it

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

People want to keep him, because one of the hardest things to do in the NHL is score goals... and Neal has one of the best releases in the league.

Most would probably try finding another wing for the 3rd wheel before trading Neal - because once you trade him, you can never get him back. Teams just don't move 40g wingers without paying a premium.

Now that said, in the right deal I'd move him - but it had better be a damn good deal.

Again, has this team ever had trouble scoring goals in the regular season during the Crosby/Malkin era?Crosby won the scoring title by more points than anyone in 20 years with Kunitz and dial a coal miner on his other wing.

This team would make the playoffs and likely win the division if Neal was on IR for the whole season. Why? Crosby and Malkin. That's why.

I don't get how people aren't connecting the fact that him being a 40 goal scorer means nothing come playoff time. It hasn't translated to the playoffs. The facts are right there for anyone who doesn't want to bury their head in the sand.

Neal is basically useless if he isn't scoring. He is a one dimensional player that needs to be scoring goals to help this team, and he has only scored in 7 out of 38 playoff games. He hasn't stepped up for this team when it matters. At what point do people want to stop being in denial about it?

This nonsense about how they need him because he is a 40 goal scorer needs to stop. Please, watch the playoff film. It's all there why this guy has been a playoff no show for four years. It isn't a coincidence.

 

[eXile59]

meh, if all we can get for Brandon Sutter is a late 1st rounder, I'd honestly rather just keep him if at all possible.

Even if he wants "a lot", I don't think he has any leg to stand on for anything close to $5MM

He shouldn't get anything close to 4. He's not even a 30 point a season player and if he needs 1st/2nd line wingers to produce at that pace he isn't worth it.

 

[eXile59]

I was thinking your Sutter situation would be comparable to Hawks Brouwer situation

A guy who wants too much $$$ for position that is already deep on Pens and team would be better off improving elsewhere

Hawks sent Brouwer as RFA to Caps for 1st rounder because they had several wing prospects (Saad/Shaw) close to NHL and guys like Frolik/Bickell/etc already on NHL roster

What about something like Sutter for Bickell? I'm a big fan and he's exactly what the Pen's need.

 

[mpp9]

He shouldn't get anything close to 4. He's not even a 30 point a season player and if he needs 1st/2nd line wingers to produce at that pace he isn't worth it.

Outperformed Neal this postseason no? While playing on the same line much of the time.

I think if he wants to stay we can get him for around 3.5.

 

[pensfan71]

Do we really need Sutter though? We could turn him into a top 6 winger

 

[billybudd]

Do we really need Sutter though?

In an absolute sense, no. The value of his name is a lot higher than what he actually does for you on the ice.

Presently, however, there's not really anyone that can potentially backfill him unless we re-sign Goc or make a trade. I like Sill, but nothing I've seen from him suggests he can be a 3C. I don't think Vitale's capable of doing the job, either. Leaving Goc.

I'm not really sure Goc will want any less money than Sutter will. If he does, that's probably fine.

 

[pensfan71]

In an absolute sense, no. The value of his name is a lot higher than what he actually does for you on the ice.

Presently, however, there's not really anyone that can potentially backfill him unless we re-sign Goc or make a trade. I like Sill, but nothing I've seen from him suggests he can be a 3C. I don't think Vitale's capable of doing the job, either. Leaving Goc.

I'm not really sure Goc will want any less money than Sutter will. If he does, that's probably fine.

Goc isn't going to command more than 2.5M.

Sutter may ask for 3.5-4. I'd rather save that 1-1.5M for someone through FA.

His name may bring us back more than we'd expect now that I think about it

 

[billybudd]

Goc isn't going to command more than 2.5M.

Sutter may ask for 3.5-4. I'd rather save that 1-1.5M for someone through FA.

His name may bring us back more than we'd expect now that I think about it

We'll see. UFAs always tend to make $1 million or so more than it seems like they would.

But yeah, if Goc is $1 million cheaper annually and will re-sign here, it would be unwise not to do that and trade Sutter for, for example, a 2nd line forward, imo.

 

[Klifton]

Thinking back to after the trade deadline, Sutter seemed so relieved to still be with the team after all the rumors. He really wants to stay, and I think they could resign him for a fair deal. 3 to 3.5 is likely. That being said, he, at 25, is just now entering into the prime years. It is not outside the realm of possibility of him doing well as a 2C. I think there are GMs that would see him as a more affordable option than the other 2Cs out on the market.

I don't really see JR trading him unless he has to, but I think he could net us a top 6 wing if he is traded. I've been saying this a lot, but I still think he would be the centerpiece in a trade to get Chris Stewart. (I know, I'm working this angle really hard, but he just seems like such a great fit.) There are other possible trade partners for him out there, this is just the one that comes to my mind.

 

[mpp9]

Again, has this team ever had trouble scoring goals in the regular season during the Crosby/Malkin era?Crosby won the scoring title by more points than anyone in 20 years with Kunitz and dial a coal miner on his other wing.

This team would make the playoffs and likely win the division if Neal was on IR for the whole season. Why? Crosby and Malkin. That's why.

I don't get how people aren't connecting the fact that him being a 40 goal scorer means nothing come playoff time. It hasn't translated to the playoffs. The facts are right there for anyone who doesn't want to bury their head in the sand.

Neal is basically useless if he isn't scoring. He is a one dimensional player that needs to be scoring goals to help this team, and he has only scored in 7 out of 38 playoff games. He hasn't stepped up for this team when it matters. At what point do people want to stop being in denial about it?

This nonsense about how they need him because he is a 40 goal scorer needs to stop. Please, watch the playoff film. It's all there why this guy has been a playoff no show for four years. It isn't a coincidence.

Isn't worth the key strokes man. You're nuts, he scores 40 goals. We need to trade our unproven assets and senior citizens. That'll take us from pretender to contender.

 

[Captain Hook]

I don't see Rutherford moving Sutter. I remember the guy seemed beyond sad when discussing having to include Sutter in the Staal deal in interviews after that trade happened. He also mentioned in the presser that he believes you need to be strong down the middle and I don't think he meant just Crosby and Malkin. I think he was including Sutter in that mix.

 

[pensfan71]

We'll see. UFAs always tend to make $1 million or so more than it seems like they would.

But yeah, if Goc is $1 million cheaper annually and will re-sign here, it would be unwise not to do that and trade Sutter for, for example, a 2nd line forward, imo.

No way someone pays Goc 3M that's just ridiculous money spending and that GM is probably drunk as a skunk

Thinking back to after the trade deadline, Sutter seemed so relieved to still be with the team after all the rumors. He really wants to stay, and I think they could resign him for a fair deal. 3 to 3.5 is likely. That being said, he, at 25, is just now entering into the prime years. It is not outside the realm of possibility of him doing well as a 2C. I think there are GMs that would see him as a more affordable option than the other 2Cs out on the market.

I don't really see JR trading him unless he has to, but I think he could net us a top 6 wing if he is traded. I've been saying this a lot, but I still think he would be the centerpiece in a trade to get Chris Stewart. (I know, I'm working this angle really hard, but he just seems like such a great fit.) There are other possible trade partners for him out there, this is just the one that comes to my mind.

Agreed

I don't see Rutherford moving Sutter. I remember the guy seemed beyond sad when discussing having to include Sutter in the Staal deal in interviews after that trade happened. He also mentioned in the presser that he believes you need to be strong down the middle and I don't think he meant just Crosby and Malkin. I think he was including Sutter in that mix.

I don't think he believes in the 3C model. I'm pretty sure he wanted the two Staals on one line with Sutter at 2C. If he gets an offer for Sutter he's going to listen, if he doesn't he's the wrong choice for GM

 

[Zen Arcade]

We'll see. UFAs always tend to make $1 million or so more than it seems like they would.

But yeah, if Goc is $1 million cheaper annually and will re-sign here, it would be unwise not to do that and trade Sutter for, for example, a 2nd line forward, imo.

I've said it before, but Goc's health concerns me. Whoever the 4th line center is could end up being the third line center in short order.

 

[billybudd]

I've said it before, but Goc's health concerns me. Whoever the 4th line center is could end up being the third line center in short order.

Looking at why he missed the games he missed, that's probably fair. Separated shoulders and frequent groin strains can become somewhat chronic.

Though, on the flipside, he did return much sooner than I expected from what appeared to be a severed foot, so there's always that.

Edit: looks like he also has a history of back spasms. Being concerned about his health is very, very fair.

 

[sexyllama]

It's funny that everyone is singling out James Neal for Playoff failures.

How does Neals 2 year PO stats compare to Sid Crosby over the last two years?

James Neal is one of many playoff failures. Not sure how we remove Neal and add another Neal and another Neal...

 

[Zen Arcade]

Looking at why he missed the games he missed, that's probably fair. Separated shoulders and frequent groin strains can become somewhat chronic.

Though, on the flipside, he did return much sooner than I expected from what appeared to be a severed foot, so there's always that.

Edit: looks like he also has a history of back spasms. Being concerned about his health is very, very fair.

He's the only guy I can recall having "fragile" in his scouting report under career potential. It's a shame too, because he's a fairly useful player.

I'd probably just hang on to Sutter for lack of better options, unless someone offers you something that blows you away for him.

 

[pensfan71]

It's funny that everyone is singling out James Neal for Playoff failures.

How does Neals 2 year PO stats compare to Sid Crosby over the last two years?

James Neal is one of many playoff failures. Not sure how we remove Neal and add another Neal and another Neal...

Neal turned into a leech the last 2 playoffs, his points come in bunches.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Jayson Megna should be on the team's top 12 next year. Preferably on the 4th line.

 

[mpp9]

I've said it before, but Goc's health concerns me. Whoever the 4th line center is could end up being the third line center in short order.

Yeah I'd be more comfortable bringing in another capable 3C in addition to re-signing Goc. Run a 3A/3B set up in your bottom six. Defensively solid and tough to play against.

You don't necessarily save cap space over just signing Sutter. But I wouldn't move Sutter on that basis. It's b/c we have very few valuable assets we can afford to move. And he's one of them.

 

[Klifton]

You know, If we can get a top 5 pick out of Letang, (I'm thinking Edm here,) we could open up a lot of options. I like the pairings better with Niskanen because he would pair with Maatta and free up Martin to show one of the young guys the ropes. And that top 5 pick could get us Virtanen or Ritchie. I'm sure we may even get an extra pick or two as well. Also, if we don't give up our original pick, (#22) I think Lemieux would be a great choice. He plays like his father, mean!

 

[Klifton]

Jayson Megna should be on the team's top 12 next year. Preferably on the 4th line.

I know it wouldn't exactly be very physical, but I like the idea of Megna - Vitale - Gibbons for the 4th line. That's a lot of energy, and the speed on the line would be very frustrating for opponents.

 

[iFishyHD]

I know it wouldn't exactly be very physical, but I like the idea of Megna - Vitale - Gibbons for the 4th line. That's a lot of energy, and the speed on the line would be very frustrating for opponents.

Yeah until somebody hits the **** outta one of them.