Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread IX : How to replace Duper... ?

[Coastal Kev]

Really? Because I've liked what I've seen from most of the games I've watched - especially lately.

I agree. I was floored when we signed hoffer... It was such a Shero move. Why would you do a move SHero would make?? It made no sense. Great deal for his price?? WHO CARES. If I have a thousand rolls of toilet paper, I not going to buy more toilet paper since it's now on sale 75% off.

 

[Boocock]

And Vrbata would really help now where as Ehrhoff really does not. Not to any meaningful level. And to be clear I said this back then also. Ehrhoff was a luxury and not a necessity, that in and of itself IMO anyhow made it a bad move. Poor asset management.

After seeing the Scutuzzo pairing tonight, I'd argue that Ehrhoff was a necessary stopgap. Next year, he'll be gone and Despres will be in the Top 4.

 

[Michael8771*]

Yeah, I mean I was an advocate for Cammalleri (this board HATED him over the summer) both would be better than Ehrhoff. Ultimately I don't mind the Ehrhoff signing, but I'm not as happy about as I was in the summer. I think it was a good value and it gives us the option to trade Martin. If we don't trade Martin (and ideally extend Ehrhoff if we can somehow can unload Scuds too) then the Ehrhoff signing makes very little sense to me outside of it being a good value. After we signed him it was pretty clear that Martin is most likely gone whether it be through trade or FA. So if we trade Martin then I disagree that it's poor asset management. Sure, we should have signed a top 6 winger instead, but that wasn't a guarantee that we'd have even been able to.

Kulemin was a package deal anyways. I'd much rather have Ehrhoff at 4 mil for 1 year with the option to extend him rather than committing a substantial amount to cap and term to Kulemin and Grabo. Ehrhoff was a safe signing, and if there wasn't a winger available that we felt comfortable committing to long term then it made sense why we signed Ehrhoff.

He may have been a safe signing but he wasn't a necessary signing. I stil hate that decision. And until we address our top six issue I will hate the sight of that evil Ehrhoff player!

 

[Allie Kitsune]

I agree. I was floored when we signed hoffer... It was such a Shero move. Why would you do a move SHero would make?? It made no sense. Great deal for his price?? WHO CARES. If I have a thousand rolls of toilet paper, I not going to buy more toilet paper since it's now on sale 75% off.

I'd argue it was more of a Morehouse move.

"Oh, one of the bigger names in FA wants to come here? Sign him even if we don't need him, because we'll get media coverage for it!"

 

[Michael8771*]

After seeing the Scutuzzo pairing tonight, I'd argue that Ehrhoff was a necessary stopgap. Next year, he'll be gone and Despres will be in the Top 4.

Simple solution, don't pair the two slowest defenders together. Or, trade Scuds if possible. Beyond that we have three legit options in WB. At the very least, two.

 

[Boocock]

So, I feel like you're saying we need Wayne Simmonds.

Now tell me exactly how we convince Philadelphia to trade him to us.

The last time we made a trade for a big, nasty winger from Philly, it cost us Mark Recchi. We don't have a guy like that this time.

Finding a big, nasty winger who can play with Crosby is going to be a difficult task.

• Chris Stewart could be that guy, but I don't think he wants to be.
• Dustin Byfuglien would be another acquisition, but I see him meshing better with Malkin for some reason (great shot) and there are some pretty valid concerns regarding his desire to play forward.
• Bryan Bickell? He's just such a bad regular season player...
• Zack Kassian is supposed to be bat**** crazy, but I haven't seen him play enough to know.
• David Clarkson has a higher punches landed average than Wendel Clark, but I hope we don't go down that road.

Simple solution, don't pair the two slowest defenders together. Or, trade Scuds if possible. Beyond that we have three legit options in WB. At the very least, two.

At this point, I'd be confident in playing Harrington. Dumoulin, like Megna on the forward side, needs more seasoning. Pouliot also requires some time to develop his AHL game. There's no need to rush our young players.

The team has eight NHL-ready d-men. Dealing one to open a spot for Harrington is quite alright. I'd be happy with calling up Dumoulin or Pouliot to play on the blue line if a player is injured (they are certainly ready for that type of duty), but Chorney can work just fine as the "fresh body" 7th d-man for practices and whatnot.

Trading Scuderi would fix everything, though.

 

[Riptide]

I don't think those players are more than tweeners themselves right now, and I don't necessarily know if any of them will develop into legitimate first liners. You act like they are all interchangeable. Do you think all of them will be first liners?

I wouldn't expect any of them to be first line wingers. I don't even have that type of hope for KK or BB. But then I'm pretty picky about who I'd call a 1st line winger (vs a 2nd liner or a top 6 forward).

 

[Coastal Kev]

And Geno doesn't? Did we not all just see him get cheap shotted by Boychuk when the puck was no where near him?

No, I didn't say that, I actually agree with you. This team does not need one guy. It needs several moves:


Change the 4th line. Can we do this with some guys in WBS?? Hopefully or trade for a guy like Peluso.

Two big fwds in top 6

Tough as nails Dman.. And I mean nasty. Pair him with Tanger, enjoy. If successful, rinse repeat for Olli...

 

[drpepper]

I wouldn't expect any of them to be first line wingers. I don't even have that type of hope for KK or BB. But then I'm pretty picky about who I'd call a 1st line winger (vs a 2nd liner or a top 6 forward).

So will any of them be anymore than a middle 6 tweener? Because this team needs better than that.

 

[Riptide]

So will any of them be anymore than a middle 6 tweener? Because this team needs better than that.

I think they all (Etem, Palmieri, Silfverberg) all have the ability to become a skilled top 6 winger - but likely more of the 2nd line variety vs that of a 1st line winger. However I think they can be better than that of a 2nd/3rd line tweener - even if they're not really more than that right now.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

JR & Co. make a big move this year:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Steve Downie ($1.000m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Nick Spaling ($2.200m)
Blake Comeau ($0.700m) / Marcel Goc ($1.200m) / Zach Sill ($0.550m)
Craig Adams ($0.700m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Simon Despres ($0.900m)
Paul Martin ($5.000m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) / Robert Bortuzzo ($0.600m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.000m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.000m)
LTIR
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15 crunched using simulation date of 2014-11-21)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; BONUSES: $307,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $4,849,755

Obviously moved Letang for ROR.

Next year:

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Ryan O'Reilly ($6.000m) / Sidney Crosby ($8.700m) / Patric Hornqvist ($4.250m)
Chris Kunitz ($3.850m) / Evgeni Malkin ($9.500m) / Jiri Tlusty ($4.000m)
Nick Spaling ($2.200m) / Brandon Sutter ($3.300m) / Beau Bennett ($0.900m)
Derek Dorsett ($1.750m) / Jayson Megna ($0.918m) / Steve Downie ($1.250m)
Zach Sill ($0.550m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Olli Maatta ($0.894m) / Johnny Boychuk ($5.000m)
Robert Bortuzzo ($0.825m) / Simon Despres ($0.900m)
Scott Harrington ($0.589m) / Derrick Pouliot ($0.863m)
Rob Scuderi ($3.375m) /
GOALTENDERS
Marc-Andre Fleury ($5.750m)
Thomas Greiss ($1.350m)
LTIR
Pascal Dupuis ($3.750m)
BONUS OVERAGE
$0
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2015-16)
SALARY CAP: $69,000,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,714,498; BONUSES: $732,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,285,502

Signed Dorsett, Boychuk, Tlusty.
Moving forward under the assumtion that Dupuis is done, Pronger'd him.
Still would like to find a way to swing a trade for a long-term solution to Geno's LW. Maybe go and try to get Perron for a high pick and prospect.

 

[Riptide]

Still would like to find a way to swing a trade for a long-term solution to Geno's LW. Maybe go and try to get Perron for a high pick and prospect.

I don't see Edmonton trading Perron unless they're getting Sutter(+?) back. They don't need more prospects... they need NHL level players.

 

[bingobangobongo]

I'm going to jump on board the Semin train. I am not going to defend his honor, he is a complimentary player and not a superstar. However, he is a great compliment for a great center like Malkin. Rutherford was dumb to give him superstar money. He scored 41 points on a bad Carolina team. Comeau scored at a 41 point pace with Malkin. What makes anyone think Semin wouldn't produce 50-60 points minimum? A moribund half-talent like Jussi Jokinen scored over 50. Semin at $5 million would be great. You can preserve the first line of Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist that worked so well and can let Bennett marinate with Sutter.

Years ago I became fixated on the Malkin-Kulemin duo. Long before the lockout I figured the best compliment to those guys would be a right-handed skill guy who can skate and handle the puck, and make plays while also possessing a great shot and instincts for goal scoring space in the O-zone. This picture of a perfect line played out in the KHL with Sergei Mozyakin. The NHL prototype in my mind all along was Alexander Semin.

Now I'm thinking that the other guy should be left-handed, bigger size, can skate, get in on the forecheck and shoot. The guy I am thinking of is Emerson Etem.

Etem-Malkin-Semin. Money.

 

[systemsgo]

Just for kicks as this would never happen, but if Dallas would ever trade Jamie Benn, would you guys be willing to give up Maatta?

 

[cygnus47]

Just for kicks as this would never happen, but if Dallas would ever trade Jamie Benn, would you guys be willing to give up Maatta?

If it wasn't for the salary cap yes. Maatta still has another year at practically free though, and we're likely to lose another top 4 guy in Martin and/or Ehrhoff this year. Benn would solve our forward problems in one fell swoop, but we'd lose key pieces due to the cap. Maatta and Despres' contracts are two of the most important things we have going for us behind Sid and Geno.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Semin at $5 million would be great.

Getting a team to eat $2mil until the end of the 17/18 season is quite a tall order that's going to jack up the team's wanted return, especially a division rival. You'd be asking them to keep a $2mil/3yr contract on their cap- which could be someone like Brian Boyle, Antoine Roussel, Andrew Shaw,or Marcus Johansson- but get nothing from it.

Say the asking price for Semin, with no salary retention, is Martin, Dumo and a 4th round pick. Then you ask for $2mil SR. I would think Ronnie Francis, being a smart guy, would then ask in return for that for either the pick be upgraded to a first, or Dumo to be upgraded to someone like Pouliot, KK, or Harrington and the pick be upgraded, or anything else to upgrade the deal with youth/futures to offset the fact that there will be $2mil they can't spend for the foreseeable future.

Carolina is spending $65.2mil this season. Not quite to the cap, but pretty darn close so they don't/won't need the $2mil to get to the floor and I'm guessing they would love to have a $2mil/3yr deal open to give to an actual player (like the comparables above), not to pay to another team, within their division, to improve.

Plus, like it has been stated before, if Semin continues his trend of playing a strong season for a team and then each year dropping off a bit and hitting longer and longer streaks of bad play and disinterest, that's an awful contract to be stuck with. We're all *****ing about Scuderi's $3.4mil being a hindrance... bump that up $1.6mil and tack on a extra year... ouch.

I don't think he's worth the risk unless he comes cheaply AND big salary retention, even then I think the resources would be better spent elsewhere. Semin would be one of the last resorts I would look to.

Although, he would be a no-brainer Top 3 bongo player...

 

[#66]

Just for kicks as this would never happen, but if Dallas would ever trade Jamie Benn, would you guys be willing to give up Maatta?

Im a huge Benn fan but I wouldnt... To be honest i think Mattaa is the best Pens defensemen. I would do Benn for Letang.

I think a better target would be a guy like Garbutt.

Another player that i think would work out with Malkin is Koivu. Maybe a Martin Koivu trade is doable now.

 

[Michael8771*]

What would be tremendous is to talk about trades that could actually Occur.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Another player that i think would work out with Malkin is Koivu. Maybe a Martin Koivu trade is doable now.

1) He's a centre... haven't we been down this road before a couple years ago?
2) He's Minny's 1st line centre and they don't exactly have Malkin and Sutter to bump up lines.
3) He's their captain. Don't think that's the kind of message the Wild management want to send to their team... yet.

 

[systemsgo]

If it wasn't for the salary cap yes. Maatta still has another year at practically free though, and we're likely to lose another top 4 guy in Martin and/or Ehrhoff this year. Benn would solve our forward problems in one fell swoop, but we'd lose key pieces due to the cap. Maatta and Despres' contracts are two of the most important things we have going for us behind Sid and Geno.

I couldn't decide myself but the cap doesn't really bother me. Benn has a 5.25m cap hit for 3 seasons, which is pretty alright to me, once we move Martin off the books we'd have a little wiggle room if the cap were to increase slightly next season.

Im a huge Benn fan but I wouldnt... To be honest i think Mattaa is the best Pens defensemen. I would do Benn for Letang.

I think a better target would be a guy like Garbutt.

Another player that i think would work out with Malkin is Koivu. Maybe a Martin Koivu trade is doable now.

Yeah, Letang would be a yes from me too.

I don't think Garbutt would be a good add on though, he's at best a third liner.

What would be tremendous is to talk about trades that could actually Occur.

It's a hockey forum. I'm bored. It's not like anything we talk about here matters at the end of the day, the organization's gonna do what they want to.

 

[Riptide]

New thread is up