Salary Cap: 2014-15 Roster-building Thread II | All UFA/trade talk, speculation here

[Riptide]

So Neal given the A in Nashville... apparently good enough a locker room presence to warrant it. Neal is a likable person, everyone on the Pens liked him. He was traded because the Pens felt he wasn't giving enough effort and because he was being a poor rolemodel for the younger players. If Dan was more firm and put his foot down, Neal likely earns an A in Pittsburgh. I hope Johnston is more aggressive against guys who are just there for the ride, and hands out punishment. Johnston needs to be strict and get his players to work hard every shift. That's what this team needs

Source? That's what I thought.

 

[billybudd]

That's a shameless use of an A. Being named Assistant Captain is something to be proud of. The team believes you to be a leader, someone teammates can look up to and confide in. The team trusts you talking with the refs, and know you will put the team first rather than be selfish.

The thought of teams giving leadership roles to keep players happy is honestly sickening to me. How can a player be comfortable accepting it? Every day you'll be talking with teamates and they'll treat you with respect but a false respect because you never earned it. I will believe Neal accepted the A because he felt he can turn into a great leader, even if he isn't now. More responsibility more expectations, maybe James will do some growing up.

Want to say Laviolette has given letters to big acquisitions before, sight unseen, but I'm not 100% on that. Specifically, I think he did that with Mike Peca.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Well, with Peca, wasn't he in a leadership role with the Sabres too?

But yeah...I need to stop replying to DD posts.

 

[Zen Arcade]

Maybe it's just me being weird, but I've never liked it when a team acquired a player and then immediately gave them a letter.

 

[billybudd]

Well, with Peca, wasn't he in a leadership role with the Sabres too?

But yeah...I need to stop replying to DD posts.

Most definitely. Renowned leader at the time.

However, I just checked hockeyreference. The Yashin trade was the same offseason Lavi was hired. I'm almost positive Yashin got an A that same camp. Yashin's character didn't have too hot of a reputation. Supposedly a nice guy, but was mostly known for laziness, greed and a famous girlfriend/wife. He never shook that reputation over the remainder of his career.

Maybe it's just me being weird, but I've never liked it when a team acquired a player and then immediately gave them a letter.

It's not just you. But there would be exceptions. When Carolina acquired Ron Francis, I sort of doubt anyone revolted when he got an A, which I think he did.

Also with Pronger. He's going to pretend he's the Captain whether you give him a letter or not and there's no stopping that. May as well either formalize it or not sign him.

 

[Riptide]

That's a shameless use of an A. Being named Assistant Captain is something to be proud of. The team believes you to be a leader, someone teammates can look up to and confide in. The team trusts you talking with the refs, and know you will put the team first rather than be selfish.

The thought of teams giving leadership roles to keep players happy is honestly sickening to me.

Yes, because that describes James Neal to a tee.

Except that doesn't change the fact that it happens all the time.

 

[Zen Arcade]

It's not just you. But there would be exceptions. When Carolina acquired Ron Francis, I sort of doubt anyone revolted when he got an A, which I think he did.

Also with Pronger. He's going to pretend he's the Captain whether you give him a letter or not and there's no stopping that. May as well either formalize it or not sign him.

Yeah, there are some exceptions. Another would be if a team has a massive amount of turnover. In Neal's case, maybe he doesn't get it if Fisher's healthy.

Your Yashin example is pretty much the exact thing I had in mind though, just randomly throwing a letter on a high profile acquisition with zero regard to their character.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Maybe it's just me being weird, but I've never liked it when a team acquired a player and then immediately gave them a letter.

Too many teams put letters in front of certain players for the wrong reasons. Josh Gorges should be captain in Buffalo, but he's once again an 'A' behind Gionta, same deal they had in Montreal. Everybody knows who the real leader of that team used to be, and it was Gorges. But Buffalo went with the Rochester guy. Not to suggest Gionta doesn't have leadership qualities, and he brings inspiration because of his size and the style he has played in the NHL over the years. However, he rarely has shifts anymore that inspire anything. He's playing out the string.

But nowadays, it's not 'cool' to have a lesser player on the totem pole with the 'C'. I hear people laugh when someone like Willie Mitchell becomes a captain. But he's exactly what a captain should be...an actual winner in this league who will try to bring that attitude to a team of losers.

I think it's a joke Erik Karlsson became captain of the Sens over a Chris Phillips or Chris Neil. When the actual and true leader of your team is that noticeable and obvious, just make him/them the captain(s)!

But, everybody wants their team to have Wayne Gretzky or Mario Lemieux...best player on the team, incredible leader. It doesn't always work that way.

Choosing a captain isn't quantifiable, and so that's why so many teams have issues picking one these days. They also choose the wrong guy because they want the decision to look good towards their fans and media.

But the captain isn't for them, he's for the dressing room and the other players on the team. And making the wrong choice can cost you games, a division title, or even more.

Ask San Jose.

 

[KIRK]

OK OK .

Some thoughts on things I'd like to see happen down the line then.

1: Deal Scuderi to any team that will take him. Obviously getting a return would be nice, but ultimately it will likely have to be a team losing someone experienced to long term injury (getting somewhat desperate) for us to get anything.

2: Package Dumoulin with Adams to a team that needs young D and can take salary back. Calgary seems a great destination, Colorado could be the same. Dumoulin is never going to be part of the solution in Pittsburgh. Not because he isn't a good player, but we have too many better prospects&young D than him. Both Flames and Avs would have little trouble with Adams salary, and indeed with those teams having as many youngsters as they do, they might even see his experience as a boon. Return? Little. A pick or a forward prospect similar in stature to Dumoulin, perhaps a bit less so considering we're getting rid of Craig.

If these two things happen, we are in the clear salary and contract wise and there will be cap-room to add a forward.
Depending on how well the kids play on D, we might also consider trading Martin for an impact forward and perhaps pick up a rugged D-rental for insurance at the deadline if need be. In order for Martin to be traded, Despres pretty much has to prove ready for big minutes against quality opposition. I think he can, but we'll see.

Maatta Letang
Despres Ehrhoff
Harrington Bortuzzo

Exciting, but very young and Pouliot likely arriving soon also. In such a scenario, I would definitely want to look for a rental to pair with Bortuzzo for the playoffs, as it is otherwise just too young/inexperienced too quickly.

Either way, Scuds gotta go. That's the most important thing. He is the biggest 'piece' salary wise who just doesn't fit with what this team is about. I could live with him being slow and having little ability to move the puck out if he was at least nasty around the net, but as much as he is willing to sacrifice himself, the man never puts the body on anyone.

Personally, I don't think we are doing any moves in the short term though unless something comes up due to significant injuries here or elsewhere. For good reasons JR and Johnston will want to evaluate what they have and how players respond to the new schemes. If that takes months, that's OK. We are going to be at the very top of the East regardless.

Ehrhoff-Letang
Maatta-Harrington
Despres-Borts

Every one of those pairings has chemistry.

You're welcome.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Ehrhoff-Letang
Maatta-Harrington
Despres-Borts

Every one of those pairings has chemistry.

You're welcome.

Harrington-Letang
Ehrhoff-Bortuzzo
Maatta-Despres

The most steady presence we have in our system is Harrington, so he should play with our biggest blueline gambler, Letang. The bottom four could be Maatta-Bortuzzo and Ehrhoff-Despres, too. If we trade Ehrhoff (or if he signs elsewhere), Pouliot takes his spot.

The potential for our blueline is off the charts.

 

[KIRK]

Harrington-Letang
Ehrhoff-Bortuzzo
Maatta-Despres

The most steady presence we have in our system is Harrington, so he should play with our biggest blueline gambler, Letang. The bottom four could be Maatta-Bortuzzo and Ehrhoff-Despres, too. If we trade Ehrhoff (or if he signs elsewhere), Pouliot takes his spot.

The potential for our blueline is off the charts.

Not a fan, but I get your logic. Agree to disagree.

BTW, I think Ehrhoff resigns and the guy who's moved when/if they think Pouliot is ready will be Letang.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Not a fan, but I get your logic. Agree to disagree.

BTW, I think Ehrhoff resigns and the guy who's moved when/if they think Pouliot is ready will be Letang.

I'd have no problem with that. In that case, I'd go with something like this:

Ehrhoff-Harrington
Maatta-Despres
Pouliot-Bortuzzo

 

[Rufus]

That's a shameless use of an A. Being named Assistant Captain is something to be proud of. The team believes you to be a leader, someone teammates can look up to and confide in. The team trusts you talking with the refs, and know you will put the team first rather than be selfish.

The thought of teams giving leadership roles to keep players happy is honestly sickening to me. How can a player be comfortable accepting it? Every day you'll be talking with teamates and they'll treat you with respect but a false respect because you never earned it. I will believe Neal accepted the A because he felt he can turn into a great leader, even if he isn't now. More responsibility more expectations, maybe James will do some growing up.

Ovechkin? He has no leadership skills and I think he is really holding them back. Doesn't really command respect eithe and he's a CAPTAIN. I have to imagine there are several players with an A on their jersey that certainly doesn't deserve it

 

[TorstenFrings]

I do think there are situation where it is warranted to give a just signed player a letter. Like I was not that put out when Jordan Staal got an A right away. He was a known good guy and by example leader and he had a connection to the franchise that meant he probably would not bolt after 6 months, plus they traded an A for him, so it wasn't as if they took it away from someone. That's just the first example that comes to mind though.

When MIN gave both Suter and Parise As it seemed a bit too soon and too much, because it was not a minor change, but 2/3 of the leading guild. It seems to have worked out okay though.

Mostly I am not a fan of the just give the As to your best offensive players mindset though. If Neal had gotten an A here (instead of Nashville) before Sutter, Martin, Letang or even Dupuis (if he had outlasted Orpik for example), I would not have liked that. Not so much, because I think Neal is a drunken dressing room liability (which I do not), but because it would have devalued Malkin's and Kunitz's well deserved A's somehow.

 

[KIRK]

I do think there are situation where it is warranted to give a just signed player a letter. Like I was not that put out when Jordan Staal got an A right away. He was a known good guy and by example leader and he had a connection to the franchise that meant he probably would not bolt after 6 months, plus they traded an A for him, so it wasn't as if they took it away from someone. That's just the first example that comes to mind though.

When MIN gave both Suter and Parise As it seemed a bit too soon and too much, because it was not a minor change, but 2/3 of the leading guild. It seems to have worked out okay though.

Mostly I am not a fan of the just give the As to your best offensive players mindset though. If Neal had gotten an A here (instead of Nashville) before Sutter, Martin, Letang or even Dupuis (if he had outlasted Orpik for example), I would not have liked that. Not so much, because I think Neal is a drunken dressing room liability (which I do not), but because it would have devalued Malkin's and Kunitz's well deserved A's somehow.

I don't see Lavs being the type to say 'you're my new offensive weapon, I'm going to give you an A', and I don't see Neal being the type to need the A. Is it possible that the motivation was to 'force' Neal to be a leader? Yeah, anything is possible. I just don't see it here, but that's just one person's opinion.

 

[TorstenFrings]

I don't see Lavs being the type to say 'you're my new offensive weapon, I'm going to give you an A', and I don't see Neal being the type to need the A. Is it possible that the motivation was to 'force' Neal to be a leader? Yeah, anything is possible. I just don't see it here, but that's just one person's opinion.

I am not speculating in why the decision was made or saying it was a horrible decision (do not know enough about Nashville for that). I am not even saying Neal should not be an A in Nashville (just because I think he should not have inherited Orpik's A had he stayed here). I was just trying to give my meaningless opinion on handing out letters to player before they ever played a regular season game for you.

Which is to say, I am happy for Neal. I always liked him. But I probably would not have made the same decision given the choice.

 

[KIRK]

I am not speculating in why the decision was made or saying it was a horrible decision (do not know enough about Nashville for that). I am not even saying Neal should not be an A in Nashville (just because I think he should not have inherited Orpik's A had he stayed here). I was just trying to give my meaningless opinion on handing out letters to player before they ever played a regular season game for you.

Which is to say, I am happy for Neal. I always liked him. But I probably would not have made the same decision given the choice.

Understood.

EDIT: Orpik losing his A a long time ago would've been one of the best things that could've happened to this team, but that's a subject for another thread.

 

[TorstenFrings]

Understood.

EDIT: Orpik losing his A a long time ago would've been one of the best things that could've happened to this team, but that's a subject for another thread.

Yeah, I am not a fan of taking a letter away from someone unless he, like, molested his daughter or something, so I do like that Orpik got a send off honor intact and all, but there have been better options for the A evne last year, I WILL give you that.

 

[Pick87your71Poison]

I do think there are situation where it is warranted to give a just signed player a letter. Like I was not that put out when Jordan Staal got an A right away. He was a known good guy and by example leader and he had a connection to the franchise that meant he probably would not bolt after 6 months, plus they traded an A for him, so it wasn't as if they took it away from someone. That's just the first example that comes to mind though.

When MIN gave both Suter and Parise As it seemed a bit too soon and too much, because it was not a minor change, but 2/3 of the leading guild. It seems to have worked out okay though.

Mostly I am not a fan of the just give the As to your best offensive players mindset though. If Neal had gotten an A here (instead of Nashville) before Sutter, Martin, Letang or even Dupuis (if he had outlasted Orpik for example), I would not have liked that. Not so much, because I think Neal is a drunken dressing room liability (which I do not), but because it would have devalued Malkin's and Kunitz's well deserved A's somehow.

I very largely agree. I don't think there's a strong rule one way or another one giving an A to a new player, but I don't think it should be based on just pure offensive production or something along those lines. As another example, with Iginla in COL this year, I think it can make sense, because it's a young team, a massively respected leader who will likely be in that position naturally regardless, and they lost a big face in the locker room in Stastny.

It seems odd with Neal, but I guess with Hornqvist gone and taking an A with him and the forwards largely a mix of young, unproven talent and new, veteran experience, there aren't as many options as there would be with the Pens. In general I think this stuff is over magnified and analyzed and the leaders move to that position naturally regardless of letters, but still interesting to see and certainly an honor for the players.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I think organizations give letters all the time to players in order to 'force' them to become leaders. I would suggest most of the time, it's a bad idea.

 

[66-30-33]

E.Staal hurt now apparently, let's trade for Semin quickly before he gets injured. Only legit sniper that would really be avail.

 

[flaneur]

E.Staal hurt now apparently, let's trade for Semin quickly before he gets injured. Only legit sniper that would really be avail.

e.staal is hurt as well? well carolina is definitely in the running for mcdavid.

 

[Darth Vitale]

49 Guesses which state this tank is from.

 

[KIRK]

E.Staal hurt now apparently, let's trade for Semin quickly before he gets injured. Only legit sniper that would really be avail.

Lupul actually looked really good tonight. More injury prone but less money and possibly every bit the fit Semin might be.

You know, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th lines of this team just make so much sense . . .

Kunitz-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-XXXX
Spaling-Sutter-Dupuis
Comeau-Goc-Downie

I'd be tempted to cast Beau on one of those wings, but I just don't think you could trust him.

I'd be tempted to move Martin, Scuds, and Beau. Between those assets and our picks, I think we could set Geno up quite nicely. Martin for one of them. Beau as incentive to take Scuderi in the other one.

Plus, even with those moves, you'd still have a defense of Ehrhoff, Letang, Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Borts, with Dumoulin and Pouliot available too (you also could make a Sydor or Boucher type addition for the playoffs in case on of the kids falter).

Really, this team is two wingers for Geno and a playoff rental on defense away . . .

 

[66-30-33]

Lupul actually looked really good tonight. More injury prone but less money and possibly every bit the fit Semin might be.

You know, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th lines of this team just make so much sense . . .

Kunitz-Sid-Horny
XXXX-Geno-XXXX
Spaling-Sutter-Dupuis
Comeau-Goc-Downie

I'd be tempted to cast Beau on one of those wings, but I just don't think you could trust him.

I'd be tempted to move Martin, Scuds, and Beau. Between those assets and our picks, I think we could set Geno up quite nicely. Martin for one of them. Beau as incentive to take Scuderi in the other one.

Plus, even with those moves, you'd still have a defense of Ehrhoff, Letang, Maatta, Despres, Harrington, and Borts, with Dumoulin and Pouliot available too (you also could make a Sydor or Boucher type addition for the playoffs in case on of the kids falter).

Really, this team is two wingers for Geno and a playoff rental on defense away . . .

Ok i'll bite.

McGinn-Geno-Lupul