Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part X)

[Johnsie19]

think alot of people are gonna be upset when the guy who's 5th in scoring right now is put on the roster

Ya no he will not be on the roster. Props to him but not really even that close.

 

[Johnsie19]

This Neal talk is getting a little out of hand. He put up one 5 point night, let's give it a rest. Imagine if it was an Olympic year when Gagner put up 8..

Neal is too slow and one dimensional to be playing on the Olympic team. There are better triggermen like Carter who can actually skate and play a 200 ft. game.

I've had him on for weeks. He really brings a lot of offence and he is just a pure sniper. IF garner put up 8 when he was already well over a point a game then that might be a comparison but of course he didn't.

To suggest Neal is slow really must mean you don't watch a lot of Pens games. Sorry bud but he is actually quite a good skater. And to suggest Carter over him and site not wanting a one dimensional player, not that truly makes you look absurd.

 

[Johnsie19]

The second best Canadian sniper in the league is Sidney Crosby, I'd wager.

If TC is worrying about Sid's chemistry, or if Stamkos can't play, then I'd consider Neal. Otherwise, Neal isn't needed on this team.

Neal is def a much better sniper than Crosby. Crosby scores because he is all over the ice making plays. Neal snipes corners, because he has a hard accurate shot and an extremely quick release.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Neal's one of the best sniping wingers in the game. And probably would be the best on the team after Corey Perry (and obviously if you're considering Stamkos a winger).

I'm not saying he makes it, but if there is a debate between Carter and Neal right now, I think the answer is obvious.

 

[Random Forest]

And to suggest Carter over him and site not wanting a one dimensional player, not that truly makes you look absurd.

Carter? As in Jeff? One dimensional?

Lol, Carter is an excellent two-way player. Love the arrogance in this one while making patently false statements.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Carter? As in Jeff? One dimensional?

Lol, Carter is an excellent two-way player. Love the arrogance in this one while making patently false statements.

There's no comparison in two-way play Carter vs. Neal.

 

[Johnsie19]

Carter? As in Jeff? One dimensional?

Lol, Carter is an excellent two-way player. Love the arrogance in this one while making patently false statements.

one dimensional meaning all Carter does is shoot. He has hugely lopsided goals to assists ratio meaning he is one dimensional and doesn't make his teammates better. As for being a great defensive forward I wouldn't go that far. He plays on the Kings, they don't give up goals.

 

[Johnsie19]

Im sure just having been a king he has inherently become better defensively but i've never seen him to be a great defensive player. He was -12 last yr or instance.

 

[Random Forest]

There's no comparison in two-way play Carter vs. Neal.

I hope you're implying that Carter is that much better defensively than Neal and not the other way around.

Because I could not imagine anyone seriously arguing that Neal is better by "no comparison". If this were true, Neal would be getting Selke consideration. The only tier of two-way players who are "no comparison" better than Carter are the perennial Selke nominees.

 

[Johnsie19]

I hope you're implying that Carter is that much better defensively than Neal and not the other way around.

Because I could not imagine anyone seriously arguing that Neal is better by "no comparison". If this were true, Neal would be getting Selke consideration. The only tier of two-way players who are "no comparison" better than Carter are the perennial Selke nominees.

His teammates Mike Richards and Anze Kopitar are good examples.

 

[Random Forest]

one dimensional meaning all Carter does is shoot. He has hugely lopsided goals to assists ratio meaning he is one dimensional and doesn't make his teammates better.

Okay, that's a much more valid concern. Won't argue against that.

As for being a great defensive forward I wouldn't go that far. He plays on the Kings, they don't give up goals.

He was extremely responsible as a Flyer as well. He's very underrated in that regard. People see a tall, smooth-skating sniper and automatically associate that with a player lacking in defensive ability, but Carter actually bucks that trend. He's not a shut down guy, but he is more than capable in the D zone. He's in the Backstrom, Getzlaf tier of two-way centers, imo. A rung or two below the perennial Selke guys.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Almost forgot how horrible international officiating was. Anyone without Bergeron on the roster is insane.

He's guaranteed.

Watch the last 12 seconds of the Ottawa game last night. He cleans out the other faceoff man twice and wins the puck exactly on the tape of the waiting winner to create 2 top-quality scoring chances.

 

[Johnsie19]

Okay, that's a much more valid concern. Won't argue against that.


He was extremely responsible as a Flyer as well. He's very underrated in that regard. People see a tall, smooth-skating sniper and automatically associate that with a player lacking in defensive ability, but Carter actually bucks that trend. He's not a shut down guy, but he is more than capable in the D zone. He's in the Backstrom, Getzlaf tier of two-way centers, imo. A couple rungs below the perennial Selke guys.

Well ok but this all started from a Neal to Carter comparison. Obv Neal is a top 6 guy that is a perfect triggerman to play with Crosby. He is absolutely lighting the league on fire. Carter while he may be better defensively isn't the kind of player Id like to see with Crosby. If Carter were on this team for me it would be as a bottom 6 winger. Even at that I do think he'll have a harder time than Neal making it.

 

[Johnsie19]

He's guaranteed.

Watch the last 12 seconds of the Ottawa game last night. He cleans out the other faceoff man twice and wins the puck exactly on the tape of the waiting winner to create 2 top-quality scoring chances.

Honestly I know what your saying. You see someone make an amazing few plays and your like he has to be on the team. But then you look at Jamie Benn highlights or Mike Richards and you say the same thing. I wouldn't say by an means he's guaranteed. I could see him dressing as a 13 fwd just to take face-offs potentially.

 

[Random Forest]

Well ok but this all started from a Neal to Carter comparison. Obv Neal is a top 6 guy that is a perfect triggerman to play with Crosby. He is absolutely lighting the league on fire. Carter while he may be better defensively isn't the kind of player Id like to see with Crosby. If Carter were on this team for me it would be as a bottom 6 winger. Even at that I do think he'll have a harder time than Neal making it.

On the contrary, I think Carter is a great taxi squad player. He's a great player to have around in case of injury. If a top six guy goes down, Carter could fill that hole without breaking up other lines . If a fourth liner goes down, Carter could fill that hole as well.

Neal is going to be a scorer if he makes the team. But this is a team that has no shortage of scorers. Sometimes a utility guy can be beneficial.

But it all depends on the makeup of the rest of the team. If they need a top six guy to score goals and slide into the lineup from the start, Neal's the guy. If they're looking for a player to round out the lineup possibly as the 13th forward, I think Carter would be a better choice.

The reality is that there are just so many options. Neither of these two are players you must have on the team. Their presence on the roster is dictated by the structure of the rest of the team.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

yeah okay

Because I could not imagine anyone seriously arguing that Neal is better by "no comparison". If this were true, Neal would be getting Selke consideration. The only tier of two-way players who are "no comparison" better than Carter are the perennial Selke nominees.

 

[Johnsie19]

On the contrary, I think Carter is a great taxi squad player. He's a great player to have around in case of injury. If a top six guy goes down, Carter could fill that hole without breaking up other lines . If a fourth liner goes down, Carter could fill that hole as well.

Neal is going to be a scorer if he makes the team. But this is a team that has no shortage of scorers. Sometimes a utility guy can be beneficial.

But it all depends on the makeup of the rest of the team. If they need a top six guy to score goals and slide into the lineup from the start, Neal's the guy. If they're looking for a player to round out the lineup possibly as the 13th forward, I think Carter would be a better choice.

The reality is that there are just so many options. Neither of these two are players you must have on the team. Their presence on the roster is dictated by the structure of the rest of the team.

Any Team Canada squad shouldn't have problems scoring but in terms of pure snipers on Stamkos is better than Neal in my opinion and you need to bring for PP situations.

And not to mention when a player is as white hot as Neal you have to go with him. He leads the league in ppg and not to mention he now plays with Sid.

 

[86Habs]

Well ok but this all started from a Neal to Carter comparison. Obv Neal is a top 6 guy that is a perfect triggerman to play with Crosby. He is absolutely lighting the league on fire. Carter while he may be better defensively isn't the kind of player Id like to see with Crosby. If Carter were on this team for me it would be as a bottom 6 winger. Even at that I do think he'll have a harder time than Neal making it.

I actually think the odds of Carter making the team are much higher than Neal's. Carter is on pretty much every single roster projected by TSN. Its not the gospel truth, of course, but it should give you some idea as to what HC is currently thinking (filtered through guys like MacKenzie and Dreger that are fairly attuned to the goings-on at HC). I have yet to even see Neal on one of their short-lists.

 

[Random Forest]

Everyone knows past the top 5-8 vote getters, Selke voting means literally nothing.

So, yeah, I'll reiterate, the only players who are "no comparison" better than Carter defensively are the ones who are perennially in the mix for the Selke, ie, Datsyuk, Bergeron, Kopitar, Backes, etc.

Carter is in the same tier as guys like Backstrom, Crosby, Getzlaf, etc. Not defensive dynamos, but very responsible players who can take care of business south of their blueline.

 

[Random Forest]

Any Team Canada squad shouldn't have problems scoring but in terms of pure snipers on Stamkos is better than Neal in my opinion and you need to bring for PP situations.

And not to mention when a player is as white hot as Neal you have to go with him. He leads the league in ppg and not to mention he now plays with Sid.

Again, I'm not arguing for the exclusion of Neal. I'm only arguing that including him depends on what the rest of the team looks like.

 

[Johnsie19]

Again, I'm not arguing for the exclusion of Neal. I'm only arguing that including him depends on what the rest of the team looks like.

It just looks all too likely considering his play and no he has moved onto a line with Sid and o ya the line put up 11 points in their first game together.

 

[Johnsie19]

I actually think the odds of Carter making the team are much higher than Neal's. Carter is on pretty much every single roster projected by TSN. Its not the gospel truth, of course, but it should give you some idea as to what HC is currently thinking (filtered through guys like MacKenzie and Dreger that are fairly attuned to the goings-on at HC). I have yet to even see Neal on one of their short-lists.

Those list were made before Neal has gone white hot and moved to Crosby's wing.

 

[la patineuse]

Carter is in the same tier as guys like Backstrom, Crosby, Getzlaf, etc. Not defensive dynamos, but very responsible players who can take care of business south of their blueline.

How much pk time does Carter play? Because Getzlaf plays on the Ducks pk quite a bit.

 

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

I think we should all be happy if the thought process goes "Well we were going to put Kunitz on the team to play with Sid, but Neal is lighting it up this year, so lets include Neal instead of Kunitz."

A first line of Kunitz - Crosby - Neal seems possible though. Similar to Marleau - Thornton - Heatley in 2010.

 

[Budddy]

Honestly I know what your saying. You see someone make an amazing few plays and your like he has to be on the team. But then you look at Jamie Benn highlights or Mike Richards and you say the same thing. I wouldn't say by an means he's guaranteed. I could see him dressing as a 13 fwd just to take face-offs potentially.

Bergeron proved himself last year in the playoffs plus in 2011 finals that he is much more than a face-off guy...he is a money player when stakes are high