Pre-Game Talk: 2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk IV

[Golden Boy]

Mantha has a good shot, great. He's got no compete, though. And because of that, I don't want him. He's going to bust at even the AHL level because people with lower skill levels but higher compete will outplay him. He's one of those guys who dominates the juniors but will probably fail at a pro level.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

Mantha does not take over games.

He takes over 4 seconds parts of shifts where he scores and is caught floating the rest of the game.

He's a soft 6'4" with no "power" in his game at all.

This is a kid who might not even get a sniff because he's afraid of hard work and is easily phased out of games.

It's pure stat, highlight scouting to state otherwise.

The shot is unreal, remember old Patty White's calling card....his shot.

Mantha presents a very intriguing combination of size and scoring ability as the 6-foot-4 winger has the ability to simply dominate when he's on.

http://www.thescoutingreport.org/draft_rankings/2013-nhl-final-draft-rankings/page/2

"He has offensive talent, that's undeniable," Durocher said. "But we're trying to get him to use his body more, to protect the puck a little better and to limit his turnovers. It reminds me a bit of Sean Couturier, who was a purely offensive player when he entered the league but he learned to play a sound defensive game by the time he left. Mantha has to do the same thing.

"But as far as his offensive game, he has it all. He can change a game by himself."

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=647144

Mantha has a great wrist shot. It is heavy and accurate, and is paired with a tremendously quick release which fools goalies and helps him to put the puck in the back of the net. Mantha gets involved physically and digs hard along the boards and fights for his space in front of the net, where he can cause havoc for goalies. I’d like to see more big hits and a bit of a mean streak out of him going forward. He will also need a bit more bulk on his frame to continue to play this power forward game at the next level. While Mantha is more a goal scorer than a playmaker, his vision and passing skills are good.

Mantha is also an outstanding skater for his size. He has very good top-end speed, and great acceleration, which allows him to drive wide on defenders and take the puck to the net. As defenders need to back off and defend his speed game, he also has the ability to pull up and let go that tremendous wrister off the rush. He couples his size with good balance which makes him a force on the boards, and helps him to fight through checks and create offense.

http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/23/anthony-mantha-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-14/

I'm not calling him a dominant physical player. But he certainly isn't "soft", and there are certainly times he dominates games.

 

[Verviticus]

one of the guys there also compared him to sean couturier so uh

 

[Verviticus]

yeah you know that guy who did well as an 18 year old? i know nothing about him. anyways, he's really similar because

 

[Vankiller Whale]

one of the guys there also compared him to sean couturier so uh

One of those guys is his coach so uh

 

[LiquidSnake]

One of those guys is his coach so uh

He's probably a little biased.

Don't know much of him but everyone says the same thing. Lack of work ethic.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

He's probably a little biased.

Don't know much of him but everyone says the same thing. Lack of work ethic.

I never said he had great work ethic. I said he's an elite goal scorer with the ability to dominate games. The only way a guy like that falls to 24 is if he has other issues. He's the epitome of high-risk, high-reward.

And his coach wasn't saying he was as good as Couturier. He was comparing him to an offensive player that managed to improve his defensive game considerably.

Plus, I thought Verviticus' responses were hilarious, considering.

 

[RainbowDeathBunny]

I never said he had great work ethic. I said he's an elite goal scorer with the ability to dominate games. The only way a guy like that falls to 24 is if he has other issues. He's the epitome of high-risk, high-reward.

And his coach wasn't saying he was as good as Couturier. He was comparing him to an offensive player that managed to improve his defensive game considerably.

Plus, I thought Verviticus' responses were hilarious, considering.

To be fair, his coach was actually saying he's currently a purely offensive player, but needs to, as Couturier did, learn the defensive side of the game.

 

[Vankiller Whale]

To be fair, his coach was actually saying he's currently a purely offensive player, but needs to, as Couturier did, learn the defensive side of the game.

If I wasn't clear, that was what I meant. Thank you.

 

[Verviticus]

One of those guys is his coach so uh

yeah but there was room for a joke so i gotta do it

that said my point was more that the gap between couturier at 17 and couturier at 18 is like a crack in the sidewalk relative to the gap between mantha now and a mantha that can play against a guy like malkin, which is more like a thing you make a 6 hour daredevil tightrope show about

 

[StringerBell]

Nice to see some differing choices!

My tough choices were Mantha vs Hartman because I love the hardworking kind of player but I'm not sure about Hartmans upside, so I went with Mantha for the potential.

Next hard one was Hayden Vs De La Rose, both so similar, so it made it really difficult. Both probably project as bottom 6 guys at the next level; De la rose with his excellent skating and defensive awareness is tempting but his lack of production at almost all levels of play is a bit concerning and on every viewing, I found him offensively underwhelming. Hayden has a bit more skill and competes just as hard, a natural leader and a guy who can raise his game. His injuries concern me more than a bit, but I think he will be at least a good NCAA player and will fit Yales system to a tee, with a game that translates to the pro level.

Santini vs mcCoshen - tough because I haven't seen anything beyond highlights for McCoshen and most of the stuff I've read about him is rather concerning. Santini is also a bit of a concern for me. Every time I watched him, I didn't see an ounce of offense. He is so defense focused, he is a pure shut down guy who never tires, rarely gets beat wide and keeps his man on the outside. He has excellent defensive awareness, enough to get him at least to the pro or NHL level, would just have to hope he picks up some offensive coaching along the way.

Dickinson vs Nastasiuk - I know I've been hard on Dickinson in the past but I like him more than Nastasiuk for the potential. And the big ice at the U18s really highlighted how far behind his skating is in comparison to his peers. Slowest skater on the ice for Canada besides Desroiser.


More than annoying. It's even worse on the iPhone.

Going to try to install tapatalk and see if it works. EDIT: it didn't work.

Just caught up on this thread. Got a good chuckle from the bolded

 

[StringerBell]

I hope we don't pick Joshua Morrissey, I have a bad feeling about him.

To be honest, I'd rather trade down if that's how the draft went.

Really?! He's one of my favourite players in this draft. I think he'll be a Shattenkirk level player within 4 years.

 

[Taelin]

Really?! He's one of my favourite players in this draft. I think he'll be a Shattenkirk level player within 4 years.

I don't see his upside as high as that, and would rather have 2 2nds to draft players with a higher risk, but a higher upside. Just a difference in drafting philosophy, I guess.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

out of curiosity, why aren't you guys more aggressive in trying to trade up in the draft? you seem like a team who could benefit from trying to draft a higher level/more elite player ... is it just not an organizational priority?

 

[StringerBell]

I'm trying to trade up, I swear, it's just no one returns my damn phone calls! Seriously though, it's a bit of a curious question considering none of us are actually involved in the process. If I were to guess I would say it's a combination of cost, poor overall prospect depth and the chance of a good player falling to our pick. And for all we know, Gillis is actually working the phones like a mad man right now trying to sneak his way into the top 10.

 

[Pip]

out of curiosity, why aren't you guys more aggressive in trying to trade up in the draft? you seem like a team who could benefit from trying to draft a higher level/more elite player ... is it just not an organizational priority?

Up to where? The top 4/5, top 10? Just curious.

I would take a ton of assets to move up that far and I think it might be best to stay where we are instead of moving up to the 15-20 because I don't know if the prospects are necessarily much better at that spot.

I think we would have to package an Edler to move up into the top picks, and I don't know if that is best for us right now. With how this draft is looking so far, and seemingly anyone can go at 15th or 25th I don't know if its best to trade up. Unless Gillis and his scouts really want someone in paticular, I think they decide to stand pat and draft whatever player falls to them.

 

[thefeebster]

The Vancouver sun has been doing some excellent draft articles in the past week.

So far we've confirmed we interviewed Tambellini, Lazar, Houck, Theodore, and Ully (out of combine). In previous years we didn't hear this much about the Canucks being active in the west. So this seems like a good step forward.

This following section just kills me because I want him as a Canuck so badly, so according to canuck luck, it won't happen.

"I consider myself the biggest Canuck fan the draft has to offer," Lazar said. "Markus Naslund, Todd Bertuzzi and Brendan Morrison were really fun to watch but the one player who stood out to me was Trevor Linden. You see how big an impact he had, not just on the hockey world, but the world in general off the ice. He's a leader and that's something I try to pull from him."

The Canucks interviewed Lazar at the NHL scouting combine in Toronto during the last week in May.

"I talked to 26 teams at the combine and the Canucks probably had the most people out of anyone at the meeting," Lazar recalled. "I'd say there were about 15. My biggest highlight was sharing the elevator down with Dan Cloutier."

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...+supermarket/8585995/story.html#ixzz2XanK9gGm

 

[Bleach Clean]

Damn it Lazar, I'm trying forget that you're in this draft and will be picked before 24.

 

[El Duderino]

I would love for us to trade up to get Lazar... how high would we need to go to have a reasonable shot at getting him?

 

[Verviticus]

The Vancouver sun has been doing some excellent draft articles in the past week.

So far we've confirmed we interviewed Tambellini, Lazar, Houck, Theodore, and Ully (out of combine). In previous years we didn't hear this much about the Canucks being active in the west. So this seems like a good step forward.

This following section just kills me because I want him as a Canuck so badly, so according to canuck luck, it won't happen.

im one of the few people whos not really big about BC BORN KID or whatever but **** if he isn't trying really hard to make me want the canucks to take him

edit: lol at how they cropped the picture of him. here's his stick!

 

[Pip]

Damn it Lazar, I'm trying forget that you're in this draft and will be picked before 24.

haha I know what you mean. Why do you have to be so likable Lazar!

 

[SgtToody]

So who among the usual top-10 or so (actually among the 7-14) ranked is most likely to slip to the early 20s, and possibly 25? We know it happens most years, and often the player slips because of an obvious reason (injury, sign ability, unproductive playoff) - but is there a general sense of a few who could slide (and corresponding climbers)?
Using McKenzie's list, I'm putting my money on either Zardorov or Horvat; there are still teams who are hesitant to go Russian, and with the top so offence heavy, a number of teams maybe looking at their secret sleeper list for breakouts. I'd be extremely happy if either slipped to Vancouver but see it as highly unlikely. More likely candidates could be Lazar (awesome player) or Mantha (no Moe, for sure)...

 

[windflare]

For what it's worth, after the last draft, it's been 5 years since Gillis took over - the usual time frame that it takes to properly evaluate drafts. And it turns out that there was quietly a big lot of restructuring and refocusing behind the scenes - with major emphasis being now placed on West, Ontario, and NCAA.

“We did a pretty comprehensive scouting overview last summer. We did a couple of studies on where those guys in the last five drafts came from and how it translated into (making the NHL). We did some analytics on where they came from and where it was best to get players. There were some pretty noticeable trends that we’ve taken strong command of.”

The trends were so compelling the Canucks quietly reorganized their amateur scouting division and changed methodology. They built a new chain of command based on regions, established clearer priorities and focused resources on three key areas: Western Canada, Ontario and the United States.

Crawford, who had overseen the Canucks’ pro scouting department, was put in charge of amateur scouting. Chief scout Ron Delorme retained his title but was returned to the WHL because, as assistant general manager Laurence Gilman explained, the team needed its best scout back in the West. WHL scout Harold Snepsts was redeployed to help senior adviser Stan Smyl assess undrafted college and junior players, and the Canucks bulked up their scouting staff in Ontario.

“Even with the greater influence we’ve placed on Ontario, the United States and Western Canada, it doesn’t mean we won’t still pick players from Quebec and Europe,” Gilman said. “But we’re placing greater emphasis on the other three regions.”

Full details here:

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/...ks+roll+into+draft+without/8595402/story.html

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I would love for us to trade up to get Lazar... how high would we need to go to have a reasonable shot at getting him?

The freaking draft is so weird.

Guys all over the map.

The mock draft from reports i've found have Lazar in the following positions:

12, 27, 26, 30+ (out of 1st), 19, 18

 

[thefeebster]

For what it's worth, after the last draft, it's been 5 years since Gillis took over - the usual time frame that it takes to properly evaluate drafts. And it turns out that there was quietly a big lot of restructuring and refocusing behind the scenes - with major emphasis being now placed on West, Ontario, and NCAA.

I'm glad they did a review last season, wish it were earlier.

The article makes it sound like Crawford is fully in charge now, the role of head scout minus the title still held by Delorme. The previous article about this restructuring made it seem like Crawford was just helping out and inputting his ideas.

Happy they are emphasizing these three areas and bulking up in Ontario, which i've long felt has the best development leagues.