2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)- Offseason FA and trade talk Part IV

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

The only way I'd be "ok" with Poni coming back is if Lou doesn't think he'll be a top #6 forward for us. Give him a clause that states that he can only play on the 3rd or 4th line (joking btw) and I wouldn't mind him back.

Lou has to get us a top #6 ****ing forward or else DeBoer has no options but guys that are better suited for a bottom 6 role.

Hey Lou, time to put that brain in overdrive cause this summer is probably the most important offseason this team will have in a long long time.

 

[Classic Devil]

The only way I'd be "ok" with Poni coming back is if Lou doesn't think he'll be a top #6 forward for us. Give him a clause that states that he can only play on the 3rd or 4th line (joking btw) and I wouldn't mind him back.

Lou has to get us a top #6 ****ing forward or else DeBoer has no options but guys that are better suited for a bottom 6 role.

Hey Lou, time to put that brain in overdrive cause this summer is probably the most important offseason this team will have in a long long time.

Every offseason is the most important offseason.

 

[MartyOwns]

because its time to let guys like Josefson, Tedenby, etc. play CONSISTENTLY and get a chance. you cant keep taking guys in the first round and stringing them along.

you need to play them in the NHL consistently and see if they have what it takes. not keep signing aging, declining stop gaps.

well now youre talking about how PDB runs a hockey team. thats a separate debate. yes, as ive said about our brimming defense, it is soon time to throw them first to the fire....but with PDB, that kind of thinking is best reserved for lala land.

and even if he did, who would he use? teddy and jojo like you mentioned? if they arent getting top 6, whats the point?

 

[Bleedred]

Tsipka, you were the poster who said back in April you could see Lou signing Poni to a two year contract, because he's signed players (CBGB) who weren't as good as Poni (They were all better this year) to two year contracts. I went back just to make sure I was wrongfully accusing you!

I don't see why we should sign him. Even if someone goes. It's time to get some new blood, and we can find someone better than him. After a season like last you wanna weed out the deadweight, and he was pretty much deadweight.

 

[Classic Devil]

well now youre talking about how PDB runs a hockey team. thats a separate debate. yes, as ive said about our brimming defense, it is soon time to throw them first to the fire....but with PDB, that kind of thinking is best reserved for lala land.

and even if he did, who would he use? teddy and jojo like you mentioned? if they arent getting top 6, whats the point?

It's not just Pete. It's hard to give rookies a lot of playing time when you've got as many veteran defensemen as we do.

 

[Tretyak 20]

so what youre saying is even if Poni is not that good, we should sign him because we may lose someone?

No, I'm saying even if Poni is not that good he's better than being forced to put Bernier there and fill the 4th line hole with a scrub like Sestito.

he should be the last of all the priorities. Elias, Zubrus, Clarkson, Zids, HEnrique, Lokti, then maybe Poni

Lou has already said exactly that (well, except that the RFA's aren't really comparable).

Or we could just sign someone like Stalberg as was already said?

I wouldn't mind that at all, but I haven't exactly noticed a lot of UFA forwards excited about coming to NJ lately. Best not to count on things that have less than a 50% chance of happening.

When you finish 28th in the league in scoring then you kinda wanna... I don't wanna say blow up, but you kinda wanna maybe purge some of the turds? Poni is one of the easiest turds to flush. If Kovy doesn't get injured I'm still not sure we crack the top 20 in scoring.

The problem offensively isn't the players we have. It's the players we don't have. Letting Poni walk isn't going to produce a top-6 scoring winger out of thin air.

Poni was playing over Josefson late in the season despite Josefson being better. Because he was one of Deboer's entitlement program vets.

JJ had 1 goal and 2 assists in 22 games, not to mention a horrible +/- rating. He wasn't getting the job done either. I like the kid, but this past year he couldn't finish to save his life, and his defensive game went all to hell.

 

[SeidoN]

saying that Poni should come back because we have noone else and cant sign any FAs isnt really a bearing on Poni's performance though

 

[Bleedred]

I'm talking about when Josefson came back later in the season. Pete scratched Ponikarovsky for him, and he played a damn good game. Pete then put the invisible piece of floating space junk in for a couple more games while Josefson sat in the box. Josefson came back in the lineup somehow (Forgot who was scratched then) and scored a goal. He also got an assist in another game. Then last game of the season he's scratched again for Poni.

Poni takes a pass in front of Lundqvists cage and says ''Hey Hank! Don't worry! I shoot puck wide of net so you no have to make save!''

 

[Emperoreddy]

Josefson - Henrique - Kovalchuk.

I've been warming more and more to this idea since you suggested it yesterday. I'd definitely give that line a shot.

So then we would do Elias - Zajac - ??? and Zubs - Loki - Clarkson/???/Poni

 

[NJDevs26]

Every offseason is the most important offseason.

It does legitimately seem that way lately though lol. I mean three offseasons ago it was about Kovy and fumigating the locker room. Two offseasons ago it was about finally finding the right coach. Last year and this year it was UFA-palooza

 

[Classic Devil]

I've been warming more and more to this idea since you suggested it yesterday. I'd definitely give that line a shot.

So then we would do Elias - Zajac - ??? and Zubs - Loki - Clarkson/???/Poni

Depends on Loktionov, but yeah something like that. Probably Elias and Lokti. I'd not mind trying Zubrus - Zajac - Clarkson as a heavy forecheck line, but I don't think Clarkson will be back.

 

[Tretyak 20]

I'm talking about when Josefson came back later in the season. Pete scratched Ponikarovsky for him, and he played a damn good game. Pete then put the invisible piece of floating space junk in for a couple more games while Josefson sat in the box. Josefson came back in the lineup somehow (Forgot who was scratched then) and scored a goal. He also got an assist in another game. Then last game of the season he's scratched again for Poni.

Poni takes a pass in front of Lundqvists cage and says ''Hey Hank! Don't worry! I shoot puck wide of net so you no have to make save!''

If Lou is upset with how the coach makes his lineups, then guess who gets shown the door? Lineups are a coaching issue, not necessarily a personnel issue. Of course, DeBoer also sees practices, and has the advantages of going over tape with others and being around all the players. We don't. I wonder about Pete's decisions somtimes, but he has more knowledge to make decisions and more responsibility for them then I do.

 

[tsipka]

Tsipka, you were the poster who said back in April you could see Lou signing Poni to a two year contract, because he's signed players (CBGB) who weren't as good as Poni (They were all better this year) to two year contracts. I went back just to make sure I was wrongfully accusing you!

I don't see why we should sign him. Even if someone goes. It's time to get some new blood, and we can find someone better than him. After a season like last you wanna weed out the deadweight, and he was pretty much deadweight.

Yes I did say that and reiterated it again today. We should sign him for the third line and for depth. We wont find someone better than him at a comparable cap hit. He wasnt good this season, I'll give you that. But most of our team was not very good.

This is what we have without any outside UFA top 6ers signed:

Henrique - Loktionov - Kovy
Elias - Zajac - Clarkson
Zubrus - Josefson - Poni
CBGB


Without Poni:

Henrique - Loktionov - Kovy
Elias - Zajac - Clarkson
Zubrus - Josefson - Bernier
Carter - Gionta - Barch

I know that players like Tedenby, Matteau might make the team, but they probably wont stay all year. I would rather keep our fourth line together and not play Barch. Poni adds depth to this team at a fairly low cost.

This lineup will barely sneak into the playoffs at best. If you remove one of our potential UFAs, we will have one of the worst summers of all time after forfeiting a top 10 pick.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Both of those lineups are horrendous

 

[Devil X]

Yes I did say that and reiterated it again today. We should sign him for the third line and for depth. We wont find someone better than him at a comparable cap hit. He wasnt good this season, I'll give you that. But most of our team was not very good.

This is what we have without any outside UFA top 6ers signed:

Henrique - Loktionov - Kovy
Elias - Zajac - Clarkson
Zubrus - Josefson - Poni
CBGB


Without Poni:

Henrique - Loktionov - Kovy
Elias - Zajac - Clarkson
Zubrus - Josefson - Bernier
Carter - Gionta - Barch

I know that players like Tedenby, Matteau might make the team, but they probably wont stay all year. I would rather keep our fourth line together and not play Barch. Poni adds depth to this team at a fairly low cost.

This lineup will barely sneak into the playoffs at best. If you remove one of our potential UFAs, we will have one of the worst summers of all time after forfeiting a top 10 pick.

Another factor in signing Poni is who we draft. Keep in mind there are a few guys who are considered NHL ready we MIGHT have a shot at. People like Lindholm, Nichushkin, and Monahan to name a few. Frankly (but highly unlikely IMO) should someone like Nichushkin fall i would much rather have him getting those 3rd line mins then Poni.

 

[tsipka]

Both of those lineups are horrendous

That's the point. The one without Poni is way worse.

I never said he is the missing piece, but he is an important piece to maintain depth.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Every offseason is the most important offseason.

True but this summer really might be the most important one in a while considering whats a steak next year. Forfeiting the pick, most likely Marty and Moose's last year, the rest of the team getting older, Lou getting older. We really can't have a prototypical , lame Devils offseason or else the consequences could be harsh. The forfeiting of the pick is so big its not even funny especially if its a high one which could happen if the right changes aren't made to the roster.

 

[tsipka]

Another factor in signing Poni is who we draft. Keep in mind there are a few guys who are considered NHL ready we MIGHT have a shot at. People like Lindholm, Nichushkin, and Monahan to name a few. Frankly (but highly unlikely IMO) should someone like Nichushkin fall i would much rather have him getting those 3rd line mins then Poni.

You can't bank on them being NHL ready. We pretty much did that last year and look how that worked out. Butler, Teddy, Jojo, Matteau were not good enough to earn a spot or help the team.

I would rather have Poni and extra depth or trade bait if a young player earns a spot than not have him and watch Lou recycle player after player.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

That's the point. The one without Poni is way worse.

I never said he is the missing piece, but he is an important piece to maintain depth.

He doesn't make that big of a difference. Realistically, they could probably just slide Matteau in for him and you wouldn't notice the difference but I really would rather go with the "neither" option and actually bring in legit, top 6 talent via trade or UFA to balance the roster out but that's not really how Lou likes to roll so more scraping of the bottom of the barrel will occur.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

Just to put some perspective here: A player like Poni is worth maybe, in his best season, one win over a guy like Matt Anderson.

There's no way a lineup without Ponikarovsky is "way worse" in any circumstance.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

True but this summer really might be the most important one in a while considering whats a steak next year. Forfeiting the pick, most likely Marty and Moose's last year, the rest of the team getting older, Lou getting older. We really can't have a prototypical , lame Devils offseason or else the consequences could be harsh. The forfeiting of the pick is so big its not even funny especially if its a high one which could happen if the right changes aren't made to the roster.

Brodeur & Hedberg moving on will be a positive for this team. No needy to worry about that.

 

[Bleedred]

Just to put some perspective here: A player like Poni is worth maybe, in his best season, one win over a guy like Matt Anderson.

There's no way a lineup without Ponikarovsky is "way worse" in any circumstance.

I don't know how you come up these numbers, but what the hell I agree I guess!

Poni BLOWS. I have a good feeling we'll sign Havlat. If we don't I think we'll sign someone who can play in the top 6. That's whether Clarkson leaves or not. If Clarkson does leave then we might sign two guys, or just one and let Matteau take that spot.

Both of those lineups are horrendous

Hi five! The thought of Poni on this team next year sickens me. As I've said more than once, gimme Mr Rogers over Poni please! YUCK!

If the only thing we do is re sign Poni well then hello 25th or possibly 28th in the league in goals for AGAIN!

 

[Emperoreddy]

Depends on Loktionov, but yeah something like that. Probably Elias and Lokti. I'd not mind trying Zubrus - Zajac - Clarkson as a heavy forecheck line, but I don't think Clarkson will be back.

ZZ-Clarkson would definitely be a big burly forchecking line. As a third line should be able to chip in more then they did this year with match ups. Definitely think things look brighter with Zubs and Clarkson together on a third line.

I am still not sure about Clarkson as I am not convinced this market of 5/5.5 is actually going to be there when he goes it market. It might be with a team like Toronto, and honestly I'm with some I don't really mind...especially at that price because that is overpayment.

I can still see him back in the 4.5 region though.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Brodeur & Hedberg moving on will be a positive for this team. No needy to worry about that.

After what I saw last year, I totally agree. I'm really ready to turn the page and get someone younger in here. Don't know who that is but I'm ready for some new blood between the pipes. I just hope the situation with Marty goes as smoothly as I hope with him riding into the sunset. Really hope he recognizes when its time to hang em up so we can make the right changes and don't have to push him out the door. A Brett Favre situation would make my head explode.

 

[Feed Me A Stray Cat]

I don't know how you come up these numbers, but what the hell I agree I guess!

Poni BLOWS. I have a good feeling we'll sign Havlat. If we don't I think we'll sign someone who can play in the top 6. That's whether Clarkson leaves or not. If Clarkson does leave then we might sign two guys, or just one and let Matteau take that spot.

GVT (goals versus threshold). Similar to WAR in baseball. Not a perfect stat, but measures how many goals a player is worth compared to replacement level.

for 2012-13:
http://www.puckprospectus.com/sortable/

The Devils' players have inflated DVGT's.

A third line player like Ponikarovsky who doesn't get much special teams time will not be worth much more than 5-6 GVT in a good season season. Five goals equates to one win.