Speculation: 2013 Leafs Trades, Proposals, and Free Agent Talk XIX

[SkyDome]

Absolutely no need to trade for Bernier. If we really wanted a goalie, why don't we draft Zack Fucale this season? I don't see the need to overpay for a question mark. And Bernier has not proved anything.

If this deal did happen it would be around the same deal Tampa did to get Lindback. Two 2nds and a 3rd. Besides Nonis continues to claim that we need a veteran presence in goal not another young buck like Bernier.

I don't see this deal making any sense at all, especially if we trade Frattin+2nd for him. Just sign Emery in July.

 

[Hounsy]

It's not that I want nothing to do with Bernier, it's that I expect the deal would involve losing pieces I don't want to invest in another goaltender.

 

[CerebralDevil]

Bernier doesn't want to be a back up anymore so why trade assets that could improve other areas that need attention for a unproven goalie? I like Bernier, but this seems to be one of those smoke and mirrors jobs to get other teams to ante up more. I think there still needs to be improvement with the 1st line C and defense. Trade away players who don't fit Carlyles system and get some kids who do.

 

[Hawaiinleaf]

So to upgrade Scrivens we trade Frattin/1st

WFT

 

[EDDIE20*]

I heard a rumour about Anaheim shopping Bobby Ryan (again). Any legs to that or is it still all talk?

 

[dubplatepressure]

So to upgrade Scrivens we trade Frattin/1st

WFT

Something just sounds fishy.... The leafs have offered a price that other teams are unwilling to pay, supposedly.

Like really? In terms of our organizational need for stability what is the highest priority?

1. Goaltending
2. #1C
3. Top Pairing D

Many would probably rate them in the opposite order. I'm trying not to think about the loss of the 21st overall pick plus Frattin, but more what the tandem of Reimer / Bernier does to solidify our goaltending for the next 8-10 years.

It would be a very, very good place to be in. It's a high price sure, but we aren't going anywhere without good 'tending.


The ONLY way I can see us moving our 21st overall pick and Frattin for Bernier is if another deal is in place to absorb an amnesty contract and a 1st round pick is returning to us through that transaction.

Frattin
21st overall

for

Bernier
Rights to Scuderi

 

[mydnyte]

Absolutely no need to trade for Bernier. If we really wanted a goalie, why don't we draft Zack Fucale this season? I don't see the need to overpay for a question mark. And Bernier has not proved anything.

If this deal did happen it would be around the same deal Tampa did to get Lindback. Two 2nds and a 3rd. Besides Nonis continues to claim that we need a veteran presence in goal not another young buck like Bernier.

I don't see this deal making any sense at all, especially if we trade Frattin+2nd for him. Just sign Emery in July.

Bernier is better than Fucale, and NHL ready to be a #1 goalie

if we dont need to trade our 1st to acquire Bernier, then it makes a lot of sense, and if all it took was the 1st rounder, then it still makes more sense if you were planning on drafting Fucale as you wouldnt need to wait 3-5 years for him to develop.
even if it was the 1st plus something minor it would make sense if Fucale was the target player just to save the development time.

I'm not even a big Bernier fan, but, it makes hockey sense, and is good asset management.

 

[IBLEAF]

So to upgrade Scrivens we trade Frattin/1st

WFT

Better not, sign Emery for free ($$$$$) and keep those assets for a real trade!!!!

 

[IBLEAF]

Something just sounds fishy.... The leafs have offered a price that other teams are unwilling to pay, supposedly.

Like really? In terms of our organizational need for stability what is the highest priority?

1. Goaltending
2. #1C
3. Top Pairing D

Many would probably rate them in the opposite order. I'm trying not to think about the loss of the 21st overall pick plus Frattin, but more what the tandem of Reimer / Bernier does to solidify our goaltending for the next 8-10 years.

It would be a very, very good place to be in. It's a high price sure, but we aren't going anywhere without good 'tending.


The ONLY way I can see us moving our 21st overall pick and Frattin for Bernier is if another deal is in place to absorb an amnesty contract and a 1st round pick is returning to us through that transaction.

Frattin
21st overall

for

Bernier
Rights to Scuderi

Seems a bit much to give up for a backup no!!!!!

 

[SkyDome]

We can't get a #1 centre without drafting him. Otherwise it would cost way too much. Or trade for a young centre man. I'd love a Kadri/Couturier top six or even Monahan if we could somehow find a way to get him.

Then if we traded for DiPietro to acquire the 15th pick and take Ristolainen, a top 2 D.

Our future lines could look like this:

JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Lupul - Couturier - Frattin
Kulemin - Colborn - Clarkson
Orr - McClement - D'Amigo

Phaneuf - Ristolainen
Rielly - Percy
Franson - Fraser

Reimer

 

[peety16]

Absolutely no need to trade for Bernier. If we really wanted a goalie, why don't we draft Zack Fucale this season? I don't see the need to overpay for a question mark. And Bernier has not proved anything.

If this deal did happen it would be around the same deal Tampa did to get Lindback. Two 2nds and a 3rd. Besides Nonis continues to claim that we need a veteran presence in goal not another young buck like Bernier.

I don't see this deal making any sense at all, especially if we trade Frattin+2nd for him. Just sign Emery in July.

I think if that was the price for Bernier, then Stevie would have traded for Bernier last summer. I have a feeling Lombardi is asking for more, if not significantly more. Hope not though if is he in fact headed this way

 

[Joey Hoser]

Something just sounds fishy.... The leafs have offered a price that other teams are unwilling to pay, supposedly.

Like really? In terms of our organizational need for stability what is the highest priority?

1. Goaltending
2. #1C
3. Top Pairing D

Many would probably rate them in the opposite order. I'm trying not to think about the loss of the 21st overall pick plus Frattin, but more what the tandem of Reimer / Bernier does to solidify our goaltending for the next 8-10 years.

It would be a very, very good place to be in. It's a high price sure, but we aren't going anywhere without good 'tending.


The ONLY way I can see us moving our 21st overall pick and Frattin for Bernier is if another deal is in place to absorb an amnesty contract and a 1st round pick is returning to us through that transaction.

Frattin
21st overall

for

Bernier
Rights to Scuderi

I'd argue it's already likely that are goaltending is already taken care of for the forseeable sure. If we're going to spend significant picks and prospect to bring in some help, it'd be nice to see it actually improve our roster.

If we bring in Bernier, the best case scenerio is we get the type of goaltending we've been getting from Reimer and we trade one of them down the road for the type of package we're acquiring Bernier for. Doesn't seem like a productuve use of assets to me.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I'd argue it's already likely that are goaltending is already taken care of for the forseeable sure. If we're going to spend significant picks and prospect to bring in some help, it'd be nice to see it actually improve our roster.

If we bring in Bernier, the best case scenerio is we get the type of goaltending we've been getting from Reimer and we trade one of them down the road for the type of package we're acquiring Bernier for. Doesn't seem like a productuve use of assets to me.

I mean, I hear you all on the we-already-have-a-number-one argument, but do we really? Running a tandem of Reimer/Bernier ensures we have the best chance of consistent night in, night out goaltending.

I think Bernier is better than Reimer TBH. I think Reimer's SVP% is over represented by perimeter shots this past season. That's also why Scrivens looked good; our defensive model pushes shots to the outside; more shots against, but easier saves.

Berner > Reimer right now in my humble opinion, and I don't have much of an argument against bringing a guy like him in. The caveat being that we don't have a way of acquiring another 1st round pick. If we only have the 1, and we're shipping it to LA, I'm much more hesitant to make this deal.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

Bernier could very well prove to be better than Reimer.

Reimer is good, but his rebound control and glove are going to prevent him from being an elite goalie. I'd love to run with both of them and keep the better of the two. Always good to improve in any position.

 

[SkyDome]

Bernier is better than Fucale, and NHL ready to be a #1 goalie

if we dont need to trade our 1st to acquire Bernier, then it makes a lot of sense, and if all it took was the 1st rounder, then it still makes more sense if you were planning on drafting Fucale as you wouldnt need to wait 3-5 years for him to develop.
even if it was the 1st plus something minor it would make sense if Fucale was the target player just to save the development time.

I'm not even a big Bernier fan, but, it makes hockey sense, and is good asset management.

But the thing is we don't have a goalie problem! I'd much rather draft Fucale with my 1st than trade Frattin and a 2nd for him. It doesn't address any need really and causes us to shave assets for something we already have.

You don't need to sell Bernier to me. I know exactly what he is. With that world class defense in front of him it's not hard to put up good numbers. Why do you think Rask, Crawford, Howard all look spectacular? Because their defense is top tier. Plus all their saves would be considered routine.

Bernier would come onto this team expecting to be a #1 goalie, but what the Leafs want is a 1b from him. Both Reimer and Bernier won't be happy and one of them will want out anyways.

 

[namttebih]

CASE AGAINST BERNIER TRADE

1. LA is a very strong defensive team hence Benier was much better protected than he will be in Toronto and hence his stats will drop here for sure 100%

2. Reimer faced a lot more pressure because were a weak defensive D team hence one of our top 2 needs being a top 4 defensive D....replacing Reimer with Bernier solves this how?? It does not he will face the same barrage as Reimer

3. Mgmt Nonis Carlyle new CEO all said Reimer was # 1 now...changing mid sentance is not good

4. Reimer going from #1 to backup or shared does not work and has never worked on any team...he will be pissed and want out

5. Losing a 1st & Frattin to fill a need that is not a #1C, TOP 4 D, POWER FORWARD TOP 9 does not improve our team at all and strips us of 2 great assets

Not necessarily correct.

Coming in to play every 5 or 6 games can be difficult as you can't get in a groove.

Most goaltenders find it easier to face 30+ shots. Once again, easier to get in a groove.

 

[Hounsy]

I suspect if the Leafs do not give up the 1st + Frattin someone else will offer a similar package to that. Islanders just may be desperate enough for a young tender to best that offer anyway.

 

[FifthLine]

So to upgrade Scrivens we trade Frattin/1st

WFT

I like the way your crying about paying an asking price that you simply made up priceless

 

[jmart21]

Not one dman on your list.

 

[DoubleDouble*]

Something just sounds fishy.... The leafs have offered a price that other teams are unwilling to pay, supposedly.

Like really? In terms of our organizational need for stability what is the highest priority?

1. Goaltending
2. #1C
3. Top Pairing D

Many would probably rate them in the opposite order. I'm trying not to think about the loss of the 21st overall pick plus Frattin, but more what the tandem of Reimer / Bernier does to solidify our goaltending for the next 8-10 years.

It would be a very, very good place to be in. It's a high price sure, but we aren't going anywhere without good 'tending.


The ONLY way I can see us moving our 21st overall pick and Frattin for Bernier is if another deal is in place to absorb an amnesty contract and a 1st round pick is returning to us through that transaction.

Frattin
21st overall

for

Bernier
Rights to Scuderi

For me a top pairing D is our biggest need.

 

[jmart21]

For me a top pairing D is our biggest need.

Agreed

 

[CerebralDevil]

What are the chances of getting Robidas out of Dallas? Wasn't he on the trade market last trade deadline. He would fit perfectly with Phaneuf on the right side with a right hand shot.

 

[Duffman955]

Not necessarily correct.

Coming in to play every 5 or 6 games can be difficult as you can't get in a groove.

Most goaltenders find it easier to face 30+ shots. Once again, easier to get in a groove.

Your argument is that having better defense makes a goaltender worse?

WTF?

 

[namttebih]

Your argument is that having better defense makes a goaltender worse?

WTF?

Incorrect. What I said was that just because he only faced 22 shots a night in LA, it doesn't necessarily mean that when he faces 30 plus shots his stats will diminish. Especially not 100% guaranteed like the poster suggested. He may be a goaltender that flourishes with 35 shots a night.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Your argument is that having better defense makes a goaltender worse?

WTF?

The detriments of sporadic play can offset the benefits of a strong defense. Seemed pretty simple to me