Speculation: 2013 - Free-agent Discussion

[CobraAcesS]

Our 1st (even if #3) should return Kulikov+Fla's 2nd+Shore/Howden minimum if indeed Florida would move Kulikov. Avs would have 2 high 2nds to either add good players for depth/future or move back into the 1st while adding at least 1 decent young winger.

Florida getting Drouin and MacKinnon together to add to the base of their forward core with Huberdeau and Bjugstad would be a valuable play for them both on and off the ice. They have a couple decent prospects on defense as well as Gubranson, Campbell, and Brennan. Avs could always throw in O'Brien or Hunwick to increase the return.

Just not that high on Kulikov TBH. He's extremely unproven and is just as much of a shot in the dark when it comes to him actually turning into a top pairing defender.

I'd rather keep the pick, I'm also not sure a defensive minded defender is what we should be looking for in a partner for EJ. I'm done expecting EJ to break out offensively in the near future.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Our 1st (even if #3) should return Kulikov+Fla's 2nd+Shore/Howden minimum if indeed Florida would move Kulikov. Avs would have 2 high 2nds to either add good players for depth/future or move back into the 1st while adding at least 1 decent young winger.

I don't understand why you keep trying to sell this idea.

its really quite bad. Kulikov hasnt looked all that great this year. Its quite clear he is still fairly raw, and may not develop like we would want him to.

Why would we trade a high end, high potential player like Mack/Drouin/Jones for lesser pieces.

It makes such little sense. It would be such a huge mistake.

 

[Freudian]

If you wouldn't be willing to trade Duchene for something, you shouldn't be willing to trade one of the top three picks in this draft for it. Because that's the kind of player you can reasonably expect a top three pick in this draft to end up being.

I wouldn't trade Duchene for Kulikov, Shore and a 2nd. It's not even close.

 

[AslanRH]

I guess I'm more impressed by Kulikov than others. I'm not the analyst of talent that you all are, and have only watched him play a handful of times this year and rely on what info I can read to supplement those viewings.

I'm see a 22 year old defenseman who is only a -2 on a team without a single + player, who plays 21+ minutes a night in all situations, is physical and moves the puck well. He makes mistakes, but just as everyone forgives our young Barrie and Elliott, Kulikov is only 22.

People on here rally around
-not trading top prospects yet complain that this team is too young as is
-smash trade proposals for a player most want to move anyway, because they only offer highly regarded prospects who are unproven in return
-can't wait to trade an established player under the guise of "asset management" even when it is clear the player adds to the quality of the team and that player is only "expendable" because of the presence of another player who has shown a willingness to holdout and demand overpayment to stay in Colorado.
-They are wanting to sign another veteran defenseman who is nearing the end, if not already past his prime for 4m+/yr for multiple years yet fret over adding a much younger cheaper player still coming into his prime because of salary concerns.

I am far from an expert in the "asset management" of hockey, but I have done well in my own life managing assets both personally and in business matters, and perhaps the principles I use do not translate into the NHL level of business.

Although I truly believe moving a pick for a quality Defenseman in the age of our core along with some quality extras would benefit this team more short term and long term than adding one of the top prospects in Seth Jones, Jonathan Drouin, or Nate MacKinnon who have never even set foot in professional hockey, I'll not continue to push this idea nor will I suggest it again.

 

[AslanRH]

If you wouldn't be willing to trade Duchene for something, you shouldn't be willing to trade one of the top three picks in this draft for it. Because that's the kind of player you can reasonably expect a top three pick in this draft to end up being.

I wouldn't trade Duchene for Kulikov, Shore and a 2nd. It's not even close.

I understand that argument, but would counter with the argument that this team does not need another Duchene as much as it needs what a 2nd Duchene could get in return. Value wise perhaps Kulikov +2nd (in a "deep" draft) + Shore maybe is lower than a return you could arrange with another HFGM, but I think it is a realistic return that would make the Avs a much stronger team now and in the future.
As I've said before, I think Kulikov is better than some do on here.

 

[Nihiliste]

Um I would happily take another Duchene or Landeskog over nearly any combination of lesser players.

 

[AslanRH]

Um I would happily take another Duchene or Landeskog over nearly any combination of lesser players.

I suppose the Avs should have kept Sundin and Nolan then since they were by far better than what was received in return. Eventually Sakic, Sundin, Forsberg, Nolan, etc would have consistently made the playoffs and won a cup or two together since they were all hall of fame caliber players.

And trading a potential Duchene pre-draft is different than trading proven Duchene in year 4.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I guess I'm more impressed by Kulikov than others. I'm not the analyst of talent that you all are, and have only watched him play a handful of times this year and rely on what info I can read to supplement those viewings.

I'm see a 22 year old defenseman who is only a -2 on a team without a single + player, who plays 21+ minutes a night in all situations, is physical and moves the puck well. He makes mistakes, but just as everyone forgives our young Barrie and Elliott, Kulikov is only 22.

People on here rally around
-not trading top prospects yet complain that this team is too young as is
-smash trade proposals for a player most want to move anyway, because they only offer highly regarded prospects who are unproven in return
-can't wait to trade an established player under the guise of "asset management" even when it is clear the player adds to the quality of the team and that player is only "expendable" because of the presence of another player who has shown a willingness to holdout and demand overpayment to stay in Colorado.
-They are wanting to sign another veteran defenseman who is nearing the end, if not already past his prime for 4m+/yr for multiple years yet fret over adding a much younger cheaper player still coming into his prime because of salary concerns.

I am far from an expert in the "asset management" of hockey, but I have done well in my own life managing assets both personally and in business matters, and perhaps the principles I use do not translate into the NHL level of business.

Although I truly believe moving a pick for a quality Defenseman in the age of our core along with some quality extras would benefit this team more short term and long term than adding one of the top prospects in Seth Jones, Jonathan Drouin, or Nate MacKinnon who have never even set foot in professional hockey, I'll not continue to push this idea nor will I suggest it again.

Dude this wreaks of you taking it personally that people disagree with you, and comes off extremely passive aggressive... The thread is for discussion, people are going to disagree with you.

Half the fun of a forum comes from arguments/debates.

This type of **** is really annoying, but that's all I'll say because anything further and I think it'd get personal.

 

[Freudian]

I suppose the Avs should have kept Sundin and Nolan then since they were by far better than what was received in return. Eventually Sakic, Sundin, Forsberg, Nolan, etc would have consistently made the playoffs and won a cup or two together since they were all hall of fame caliber players.

The Sundin for Clark trade wasn't a good one. Avs basically traded for Clark at his peak value and had to pay an extremely high price. After a year and a contract dispute Avs managed to trade him for Lemiuex which turned out ok.

Owen for Ozolinsh filled a need and was ok for Avs. But they made the trade after a year when they finished second overall in the league and was ready to go for the cup.

I'm not sure how the situation back then is in any way analogous to Avs now. If anything, with the salary cap, having a constant flow of talent on ELCs is more important that it ever has been. Getting a Jones/Drouin/MacKinnon/Barkov would be good for Avs.

 

[S E P H]

I just realized that Pascal Dupuis is a UFA this summer, I don't think he would be scoring the same points he's putting up with Pittsburgh compared to us, but another versatile player that can play in all situations and bring veteran leadership. Looking for a big raise and Penguins are going to have to let some players go due to cap lowering.

 

[AslanRH]

Dude this wreaks of you taking it personally that people disagree with you, and comes off extremely passive aggressive... The thread is for discussion, people are going to disagree with you.

Half the fun of a forum comes from arguments/debates.

This type of **** is really annoying, but that's all I'll say because anything further and I think it'd get personal.

Just responding to

I don't understand why you keep trying to sell this idea.

its really quite bad.

It makes such little sense. It would be such a huge mistake.

After being directly addressed, I was just trying to help explain my opinion and thoughts when it is deemed they are quite bad and that they make little sense.
It's not intended to be passive aggressive at all, sorry if it comes off that way, I just feel like I should defend my own opinion with the same ferver as everyone else. Admitting that my knowledge of hockey talent and team management may be more limited than others on here, I will accept that trading the pick is clearly not a good idea for the team.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I understand that argument, but would counter with the argument that this team does not need another Duchene as much as it needs what a 2nd Duchene could get in return. Value wise perhaps Kulikov +2nd (in a "deep" draft) + Shore maybe is lower than a return you could arrange with another HFGM, but I think it is a realistic return that would make the Avs a much stronger team now and in the future.
As I've said before, I think Kulikov is better than some do on here.

That trade wouldn't make the Avs better in the future.

Even if the 2nd turned out to be a decent 2nd/3rd liner and Shore turned into a 2nd liner.


In this day and age, prospects as highly touted as Drouin, Mackinnon, and Jones are basically cant miss guys.

They will be stars in the league possibly as soon as next year. When those 3 guys hit there primes in 5-6 years, they could be franchise, superstar players.

You don't trade those type of players away, ever. Drouin, Jones, Mackinnon all have the potential to be those type of players. Jones has the potential to be even more then that. He could very well be a generational Defensive talent.


Its just a terrible move to make, we don't need 2-3 ok pieces, we have a fair amount of core pieces already in ROR, Duchene, Landy, EJ, Varly, Stastny. Adding another huge asset like that is better then adding a couple extra secondary assets. Especially when we have good secondary assets as well in McGinn, Barrie, Elliott, Downie, Siemens, PAP.


We have decent overall depth. What were missing is a Superstar Defenseman, or a superstar forward. The top 3 pick has a very good chance to bring in one of those missing pieces.

That trade, or any trade for parts, does not bring in a missing piece.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I just realized that Pascal Dupuis is a UFA this summer, I don't think he would be scoring the same points he's putting up with Pittsburgh compared to us, but another versatile player that can play in all situations and bring veteran leadership. Looking for a big raise and Penguins are going to have to let some players go due to cap lowering.

Ive always liked Dupuis from his rookie season on. I wouldnt mind him depending on the cost of course