Speculation: 2013-2014 Hurricanes Trade Talk Part 2

[the halleJOKEL]

I usually agree with most of your posts, but you lost me here. Chad a "great skater"? He worked hard, but he was an average skater at best.

yeah, he was a horrible skater dont listen to my post

 

[bleedgreen]

Larose is a good example of a guy who skates poorly making it. He did it through sheer hustle, which won't be rask's route. Rask is a smart player. He figures out how to get where he needs to be. They'll work on his stride and he'll adapt in time. He may need the same thing for the NHL, but there's no guarantee he'll ge it.

He can get to the net he shields the puck very well when driving. He gets to places you think he can't get to. Often he'll come out of the corner that way. Soft hands when he gets there. If he can make that happen as a pro then he's got a chance. He's never gonna be a speedster, but there are players in this league who aren't blinding fast.

 

[RodTheBawd]

shockingly enough, not everybody is good at everything

if the rest of your game is above average or higher, you may not need to rely so much on skating at lower levels

the inverse would be someone who was a great skater but had no hockey sense or technical skills

like chad larose

Man, thanks for this explanation, you offer such great insight, I really learn a lot from your posts.

My comment was on the heels of a conversation I had with a youth coach that said they don't give a **** about anything other than skating now since the game is going to continue getting less and less physical. If you can skate, they can add the rest later. Now Rask is probably one generation up, but I'm still surprised someone on his level needs that much work.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Man, thanks for this explanation, you offer such great insight, I really learn a lot from your posts.

My comment was on the heels of a conversation I had with a youth coach that said they don't give a **** about anything other than skating now since the game is going to continue getting less and less physical. If you can skate, they can add the rest later. Now Rask is probably one generation up, but I'm still surprised someone on his level needs that much work.

That's primarily an American thing and specifically a USA hockey thing. Trying to be the fastest team works very well in the minor levels in the US and they have a lot of success in international tournaments because of that. Then we get to the top levels and skill wise have Patrick Kane and dick.

 

[bleedgreen]

Speed will always be important, but players can adapt. Rask has at every level, and while it needs work even the scout said in the link given that rask needs to add a gear not learn to stand. This conversation makes it sound as though he needs lessons to learn to stop pushing a chair around. He's a scorer at every level up to this point, he can skate. He can think and play the game well. If he is going to be a point producing NHL'er he could use a faster gear.

Plenty of guys need work on their skating along the way. There's a few players in the nhl that are good offensive players who aren't the fastest. I wouldn't give up on this kid, it's his first year pro.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

That's primarily an American thing and specifically a USA hockey thing. Trying to be the fastest team works very well in the minor levels in the US and they have a lot of success in international tournaments because of that. Then we get to the top levels and skill wise have Patrick Kane and dick.

Jack Eichel looks amazing skill wise and is (gasp!) an actual center, so there might be hope yet for "talent" and "USA".

 

[RodTheBawd]

Note to self: No more hyperbole on here.

 

[nobuddy]

That's primarily an American thing and specifically a USA hockey thing. Trying to be the fastest team works very well in the minor levels in the US and they have a lot of success in international tournaments because of that. Then we get to the top levels and skill wise have Patrick Kane and dick.

Phil Kessel?
Zach Parise?
James van Riemsdyk?
Max Pacioretty?
Joe Pavelski?
Bobby Ry-oh wait.
TJ Oshie?
Ryan Kesler?
David Backes?
Derek Stepan?

Not to mention Galchenyuk, Coyle, Okposo, Pominville, Saad...

Please. We have loads of skill up front.

 

[nobuddy]

Jack Eichel is already my favorite player and he's still a over a year from being drafted. Soooo psyched to see him in the NHL.

 

[WhiteTrashAmerican]

Phil Kessel?
Zach Parise?
James van Riemsdyk?
Max Pacioretty?
Joe Pavelski?
Bobby Ry-oh wait.
TJ Oshie?
Ryan Kesler?
David Backes?
Derek Stepan?

Not to mention Galchenyuk, Coyle, Okposo, Pominville, Saad...

Please. We have loads of skill up front.

How does that list not have Erik Col....sorry I couldn't finish that with a straight face.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

"Skill" is a loosely defined term and can be interpreted many ways, but I agree with Joe's general point. USA hockey has focused more heavily on skating in the past. If you were ever in their coaching clinics back in the late 90s/early-mid 00s (which I was), you'd have seen that. When I coached mite-peewee years ago, the mantra was almost "forget about the pucks, focus on skating". I'm exaggerating a bit, but that was the mentality. It was later on that the things changed and they started pushing the skill aspect more with cross ice, small area games, skills development, etc... I no longer coach but I do believe they are still pushing cross ice and small area games type things a lot more now (maybe totalkev can comment as I believe he said he is now coaching).

In the NHL, skill translates to points. Yes, there are other ways to get points (speed, net front presence like Holmstrom, outworking guys like Parise, etc...), but in general, it's a decent indicator. Let's look at the career high points for the top players vs. other countries teams:

Parise: 94; Kane: 88; JVR: 47; Kessel: 82; Pacioretty: 65; Pavelsky: 66; Ryan: 71; Kesler: 75; Backes: 62; Stepan: 51.

Now let's look at Canada:

Crosby: 109; St. Louis: 102; Marleau: 86; Perry: 98; Getzlaf: 82; Taveres: 81; Sharp: 71; Toews: 76; etc... (not to mention Stamkos, Thornton, E. Staal, etc.. who aren't on the team but have career highs in the 90-100+ range).

And Russia (tough as some don't play NHL): Ovi: 112; Malkin: 113; Datsyuk: 97; Semin: 84; Kovalchuk: 98; Markov: 64; etc.

And Sweden: Sedin: 112; Sedin: 104; Zetterberg: 92; Alfredsson: 103; Backstrom: 101; L. Eriksson: 73; Karlsson: 78.

I realize part of it is also pool of players to choose from (especially with Canada) and not all these players are in their prime in the same NHL era, but I think it's reasonable to say that other countries have developed more "skilled" players than the US. That doesn't mean the US players aren't excellent players, and some are very skilled, but for the most part, the top US players have not been as skilled as the top players from other countries, but I do think the US is catching up.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Phil Kessel?
Zach Parise?
James van Riemsdyk?
Max Pacioretty?
Joe Pavelski?
Bobby Ry-oh wait.
TJ Oshie?
Ryan Kesler?
David Backes?
Derek Stepan?

Not to mention Galchenyuk, Coyle, Okposo, Pominville, Saad...

Please. We have loads of skill up front.

These are good hockey players. Are any of them as skilled as say Crosby, Giroux, Tavares, etc. etc. How about Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin & Semin? Maybe the Sedin' or Zetterberg? I'm talking top level of the top level skill/talent. Do you think it's some kind of coincidence an American has never won the Art Ross and hasn't won a Hart since Brett Hull who might as well have been Canadian.

 

[nobuddy]

These are good hockey players. Are any of them as skilled as say Crosby, Giroux, Tavares, etc. etc. How about Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin & Semin? Maybe the Sedin' or Zetterberg? I'm talking top level of the top level skill/talent. Do you think it's some kind of coincidence an American has never won the Art Ross and hasn't won a Hart since Brett Hull who might as well have been Canadian.

Kessel, Kane, and Parise are absolutely up there with those names.

3 Americans in the top 10 in goals, two in the top five.
3 Americans in the top 10 in points, two in the top five.

None of those are Parise.

 

[nobuddy]

Edit: wrong thread.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Kessel, Kane, and Parise are absolutely up there with those names.

3 Americans in the top 10 in goals, two in the top five.
3 Americans in the top 10 in points, two in the top five.

None of those are Parise.

We're talking about different things and you don't seem to want understand that despite what BBA said. Skill level. Puck skills. Kane's elite. If you think Kessel and Parise are on a level with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc. you're being a blatant USA homer.

 

[nobuddy]

We're talking about different things and you don't seem to want understand that despite what BBA said. Skill level. Puck skills. Kane's elite. If you think Kessel and Parise are on a level with the likes of Crosby, Malkin, Datsyuk, etc. you're being a blatant USA homer.

Serious question have you watched Phil Kessel play this year?

He's been better than Kane.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Serious question have you watched Phil Kessel play this year?

He's been better than Kane.

I haven't seen him play in the last 3 weeks. It appears he's turned it on while Kane has faded based on statistics alone. The last time I saw him was during the Leafs losing streak where he was borderline invisible. When he was with the Bruins I always viewed him as a fast player with a great shot. Not a guy who is going to do something with the puck I've never seen before.

But again, if you asked someone who is a more skilled player is anyone in the world going to take Kessel over Kane?

 

[nobuddy]

But again, if you asked someone who is a more skilled player is anyone in the world going to take Kessel over Kane?

No, but they're both clearly elite.

 

[DougieSmash]

What's about all the talk on main board about Ruutu for Callahan. What the heck?

 

[DaveG]

No idea man. Sounds like Boomer Esiason (who has some ins with the org) has stirred some stuff up about an impending trade since the Rangers can't come to terms with Callahan. A LOT of people tossing Ruutu out since he's basically one of the only players that meets the criteria he set up.

Talks about how Rangers fans would not like the trade at first, etc.

Not sure if I buy into it or not, but if JR could find a willing taker for the Ruutu contract and get Callahan as a rental I'd be onboard, assuming he doesn't go nuts on what the other pieces are in that trade.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I've never wanted something to happen so bad before in my life. lol make it happen JR

 

[nobuddy]

I'd need to change my pants.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Harmless speculation but, I wonder where he'd fit in, line up wise, I mean, I'm assuming he wouldn't be replacing Ruutu as the 4th line RW

 

[Swag Surf Aho]

So far, he meets all of the criteria except one or maybe two.

-"immediate upgrade for top line" (well, probably better than Kreider)
-"reunion of some sort, similarly to Richards and St. Louis" (can't get my head around this one if it's even legit)

Either Alfredsson or Ruutu is my guess.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

So far, he meets all of the criteria except one or maybe two.

-"immediate upgrade for top line" (well, probably better than Kreider)
-"reunion of some sort, similarly to Richards and St. Louis" (can't get my head around this one if it's even legit)

Either Alfredsson or Ruutu is my guess.

He said it's someone under 30, which rules out Alffie and MSL and technically Ruutu, but Ruutu literally just turned 31 last week and Callahan turns 29 next month, so still very comparable ages me thinks.