Speculation: 2013-14 Trade Talk III

[Hull Fan]

If this team magically had a legit # 1 pairing overnight, I think you'd be astounded at how much better the D corp played overall. Daley is a perfectly serviceable #2 pairing guy. I think Goose is too, but I don't think I've ever seen him play when he wasn't pressing over his head. Throw in Dillon to add physicality and size on that unit, and you've got options.

Of course, I have no idea how you get there.

The problem is this team isn't going to magically have an all new awesome 1st pairing unless Dallas gets extremely lucky and a guy like Klingberg makes the transition and let's say Despres is his new partner. Even then they'll have issues.

I'm in no way saying this is a real possibility or fair value but if Eberle is on the table for Kari+, dallas should probably make the deal depending on the plus. Robidas to Anaheim for their 3rd goalie and the top six is helped by adding a key young player to the mix. Then you use everyone else to try to fix the defense.

Lehtonen is in no way untouchable, especially if you can't overhaul the defense anyway.

 

[Famous Flames]

I don't think Lehtonen is untouchable. I agree that his age doesn't fit the core of the team. But I don't agree we need 4 new dmen.

 

[Troy McClure]

I don't think Lehtonen is untouchable. I agree that his age doesn't fit the core of the team. But I don't agree we need 4 new dmen.

Five?

 

[KiedisA]

I don't want Kari to go anywhere but let's say St. Louis comes up with a blockbuster including couple of their top4 defencemen.. I don't know, a lot depends on Oleksiak and Nemeth and their development..

 

[BigG44]

Five?

I think he meant 2 or 3. Some around here still want Daley and/or Goligoski ... but if Kari is too old at 30, then yes they need 4 or more new defenders. You don't keep 30 year old Daley and trade Kari. Honestly .... Daley's health issues are more concerning to me than Lehtonen. Daley usually doesn't miss games, and the ankle injury is pretty fluky. Not his fault a guy falls on him, and that causes a significant sprain in 99 out of 100 guys.

However, that neck fusion is serious business. We saw what neck issues have done to Morrow's career. Now ... Cole is the other side of the equation. He had a serious neck issues and he overcame them to become a 30 goal scorer several times, and he seems to be on pace for a 20 goal season this year.

I think you need to be cautious though and just ship him out sooner rather than later, but he's the last to go IMO. I thought maybe move him sooner because he's the most valuable, but for the sake of icing a decent team ... you need to replace guys like Gonchar and Goligoski sooner.

I wouldn't call Connauton a core player and lock for the Top 6 either. I love his upside, and I'm excited about the guy. I'm just saying, and I think most agree, he's written in pencil at this point.

I don't want Kari to go anywhere but let's say St. Louis comes up with a blockbuster including couple of their top4 defencemen.. I don't know, a lot depends on Oleksiak and Nemeth and their development..

Almost zero chance that's realistic.

Cory Schneider is probably the best goaltender with the most upside to have been traded in years. All he acquired was the 9th overall pick. That's not great considering Jordan Staal picked up the 8th overall pick, an above average, younger 3rd line center, and a young D with Top 4 potential.

9th is a good return, don't get me wrong, but in most cases that's not immediate help (Val Nichushkin is rare), and it's far from a certain NHL asset.

 

[Satan]

If we could magically make 2 good defenseman appear out of thin air I would not be opposed to having Goose play 3/4.

But that's improbable. We need to start praying to Raptor Jesus nightly boys.

 

[Frozen Failure]

So guys, if Klein got MDZ...

What can Trevor Daley get?

 

[haf]

So guys, if Klein got MDZ...

What can Trevor Daley get?

That's exactly where i am at. And what about a package of Daley +prospect. Return could be legit.

 

[Primetimey*]

Ellis and MDZ on the same team.. lmfao

 

[Frozen Failure]

That's exactly where i am at. And what about a package of Daley +prospect. Return could be legit.

There's four teams, that I think we should be looking at.

Phoenix
Ottawa
Winnipeg
San Jose

There are eight players, two on each team, who we should be looking at. They are all RH D, each has a somewhat different skillset.

Rundblad and Stone
Wiercioch and Gryba
Redmond and Postma
Braun and Demers

Obviously some of these guys are going to be off on value, but if I'm looking for a RHD to fill the gap... I look at these guys. They're all kind of different but all but the Winterpeg pair are fairly established in the NHL.

There are also two or three outside shots who I don't think have the value we're looking for, in Franson (TOR), McBain (BUF) and Fayne (NJD)

I know the values aren't perfect.. and I know that the situations aren't all perfect... but I think there's a workable deal in this pile of bodies.

We know Daley is familiar with Tippett and played some excellent seasons under him. We know Phoenix is familiar with Whitney and he turned Vrbata into a machine. I would assume the following:

Whitney and Daley in
Rundblad/Stone and x out

It would allow Phoenix to move either Derek Morris as a rental, or Yandle to get an offensive centerman or say... Frans Nielsen.

 

[BigG44]

Daley makes almost no sense to PHX considering the number of D they already have in the NHL and AHL who are NHL ready.

Also, Stone has been mentioned several times this year as unavailable. I agree with you he was a guy I'd want, but PHX seems pretty happy with him. He's often mentioned as a guy they'll hold on too.

Also ... I'm pretty sure Wiercioch is a leftie.

 

[Frozen Failure]

Daley makes almost no sense to PHX considering the number of D they already have in the NHL and AHL who are NHL ready.

Also, Stone has been mentioned several times this year as unavailable. I agree with you he was a guy I'd want, but PHX seems pretty happy with him. He's often mentioned as a guy they'll hold on too.

Also ... I'm pretty sure Wiercioch is a leftie.

What? Dammit, why do I keep thinking he's a righty? Probably because Ottawa keeps putting him on the right or some BS.

So you mean Gormley? And that's it?

 

[haf]

There's four teams, that I think we should be looking at.

Rundblad and Stone
Wiercioch and Gryba
Redmond and Postma
Braun and Demers

My main problem with these guys is they are all various degrees of young. I feel like we have young D prospects with upside who are very close to knocking on the door. In a variety of capacities.
None of the above names are ready for 25+ minutes a night and that's the kind of defenseman we need to turn a corner.

Get that and then start restocking the stable.

 

[Alistar]

Wow that is a terrible trade for the Rangers. Klein is about as bad as regular defencemen get in this league, reminds me of the time Edmonton brought in washed up Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert.

Makes me hopeful we can get a good return for Erik Cole.

 

[Frozen Failure]

My main problem with these guys is they are all various degrees of young. I feel like we have young D prospects with upside who are very close to knocking on the door. In a variety of capacities.
None of the above names are ready for 25+ minutes a night and that's the kind of defenseman we need to turn a corner.

Get that and then start restocking the stable.

So is MDZ. But Nashville doesn't have the problem of finding minute eaters, they have Josi and Weber and Jones and and and and and and and forwards whose #1 priority is defense.

I think the defense would be greatly helped by a talented guy who has the potential of eating big minutes, hell, Daley's TOI slowly scaled up from 16 to 21 over the course of 5 years after being drafted.

The stable is plenty stocked with guys like Oleksiak, Nemeth, Klingberg, Bystrom, Connauton etc. I think Connauton was an experiment to see if we could get a 23 year old to play and work him toward more minutes. We've not really seen that yet.

And it's not a terrible trade. The Rangers are in win soon mode. They also have to think about the future, and if Girardi leaves, they'll be out their reliable #4 right hand dman, which Klein can be. MDZ had quite a bit of value being a very young NHL caliber offensive D-man who was capable of playing ample minutes and contributing to an offense but was a bit of a headcase and we'll see if he sinks or swims in Nashville, but I'm going with swims.

On a completely separate note, someone actually posted the Klein/MDZ proposal roughly 7 weeks ago. In trade. With the logic behind it. Absolutely amazeballs again.

 

[haf]

On a completely separate note, someone actually posted the Klein/MDZ proposal roughly 7 weeks ago. In trade. With the logic behind it. Absolutely amazeballs again.

holy crap. totes amaze. mega props to that dude.

My point wasn't that those names weren't or aren't attractive or have value.
Simply that our improvement defensively is predicated on a big minute crunching defenseman.
The middling moves for younger defenseman doesn't change the needle in the near-term.

 

[Frozen Failure]

holy crap. totes amaze. mega props to that dude.

My point wasn't that those names weren't or aren't attractive or have value.
Simply that our improvement defensively is predicated on a big minute crunching defenseman.
The middling moves for younger defenseman doesn't change the needle in the near-term.

I was talking to Captain Awesome...

There's always the debate between moving Goose and moving Daley... Daley is an average d-man who can usually be safely relied upon to play 20 minutes a night. Goligoski... well Goligoski either needs to play behind a confident team or get sheltered minutes, but can play those 20 minutes a night too.

If we had more minute munchers I'd advocate moving Daley, but as you say, we're short on minute munchers and it remains to be seen if Daley's minutes are more valuable to the team than Goligoski's.

We'll see if yesterday's performance was a fluke or if we're gearing up for a hot streak tomorrow.

 

[glovesave_35]

Wow that is a terrible trade for the Rangers. Klein is about as bad as regular defencemen get in this league, reminds me of the time Edmonton brought in washed up Nick Schultz for Tom Gilbert.

Makes me hopeful we can get a good return for Erik Cole.

I'm more interested in seeing how that effects the value of any of our veteran defenseman. Cole has been doing his own good work in raising his value.

 

[Hull Fan]

holy crap. totes amaze. mega props to that dude.

My point wasn't that those names weren't or aren't attractive or have value.
Simply that our improvement defensively is predicated on a big minute crunching defenseman.
The middling moves for younger defenseman doesn't change the needle in the near-term.

I just don't think anyone is going to trade a good solid minute eater that fits the age/contract Dallas would be willing to take or give up enough assets to acquire. Klein isn't better than Daley, he's just a different style. So targeting those seems an unlikely scenario.

Most people don't want it and I'd include Ruff in that same boat but if you want a #1 or #2 defenseman you've got to grab a guy a year or two after his draft at the latest. Perhaps if you truly trust your pro scouts and think their current team has their player incorrectly valued you could get a guy you think can turn into that, Despres would be an example. So adding another young guy or two in place of Daley/Goligoski isn't the end of the world if you want a chance to get a guy with the potential to be more than a 4th/5th/6th d-man adding two of the names that have been bandied about is the way to go.


So Dallas has 5 guys who are in various stages of NHL ready.

Klingberg - Huge upside playing fantastic minutes in Sweden. Can he make the jump to the smaller ice and handle the defensive responsibilities without losing the risk taking that makes him a special defenseman?

Nemeth - Large bodied defensive defenseman with a great first pass who it seems can't stay healthy in his first two seasons in NA. If he's healthy he'd have been up but like Glennie there are questions about how long before he's NHL ready and if he can become that.

Oleksiak - First pairing potential but he's a large man playing a small man's game which is a problem. Right now he's not even Bouwmeester lite in terms of style. His physical play is practically non-existent in his NHL showings but he's got a few years to become that. He's not ready and it appears he won't be starting next year.

Jokipakka - Physical defenseman with enough offensive game to qb the pp in Austin. He's also had injury issues and his skating is still questionable though improved. He's got bottom pairing potential and if there's a great sell off he'd be among the guys called up.

Gaunce - 6th/7th defenseman, steady stay at home who's not going to wow. You'd like your defense to be good enough for him to be an AHL guy.

I keep saying they need 4 new defenders and these 5 guys aren't all going to make it so adding to that with other young guys isn't a bad thing and may be the only option if you want a guy with the potential to be more than a #3/4 defenseman. Especially in light of the dismal FA crop of defenders. Fayne and McDonald are about the only two I like.

 

[haf]

I was talking to Captain Awesome...

ah! beg pardon.

 

[Frozen Failure]

ah! beg pardon.

Oh, I meant earlier, I was replying to you.

Sorry, text is hard sometimes. My bad.

 

[Cin]

I trade Goligoski over Daley in every imaginable situation you can dream up. There's not a chance in hell I can watch him play out his contract with Dallas. Not happening.

 

[BigG44]

Yotes aren't looking for defensive help because Zbynek Michalek just returned from injury, and they aren't interested in moving out a forward for a forward. They only want to add one.

That means in a potential trade of Ray Whitney, no roster forwards, but I don't think that eliminates Rundblad, especially with Michalek coming back and making the D situation even more crowded.

This does bring up a good point about how much (or little) they value Rundblad. The entire time Michalek was out, they only gave him one game. They called up and played Murphy and Kesla over him. Schlemko also plays ahead of him. He did play in PHX's most recent game for about 11 minutes, but that was his first game in 10 ... only his 3rd in the last 27 games.

Even Dallas played Connauton when injuries came up.

 

[usefulfiction]

Yotes aren't looking for defensive help because Zbynek Michalek just returned from injury, and they aren't interested in moving out a forward for a forward. They only want to add one.

That means in a potential trade of Ray Whitney, no roster forwards, but I don't think that eliminates Rundblad, especially with Michalek coming back and making the D situation even more crowded.

This does bring up a good point about how much (or little) they value Rundblad. The entire time Michalek was out, they only gave him one game. They called up and played Murphy and Kesla over him. Schlemko also plays ahead of him. He did play in PHX's most recent game for about 11 minutes, but that was his first game in 10 ... only his 3rd in the last 27 games.

Even Dallas played Connauton when injuries came up.

I don't know enough about the play styles of Michalek, Murphy or Klesla but could that have factored into why he wouldn't get played? They were trying to match up play styles for what was going out of the lineup?

 

[BigG44]

I don't know enough about the play styles of Michalek, Murphy or Klesla but could that have factored into why he wouldn't get played? They were trying to match up play styles for what was going out of the lineup?

Michalek and Klesla are similar, defensive D. Murphy and Rundblad are similar offensive D, and Murphy is younger.