Post-Game Talk: 2013-14 Playoffs Round 1: Tampa Bay Lightning vs. Montréal Canadiens

[HoseEmDown]

Robert unfortunately we aren't playing these games when we're at full health. The Habs are missing Galchuynuk who's speed would give us fits. We haven't played well enough to win any of the games with the team we've got, we can make all the excuses we want we still are playing with NHL player's who aren't competing good enough to win.

 

[ThunderRoad]

Hopefully we can channel the 2011 Pittsburgh series...There are a couple guys still on this team that went through that experience.

Win tonight and maybe we get Bishop back. Win tonight and maybe that resets everyone's confidence and they start looking like a different team out there.

 

[ffenliv]

The bad-blooded banter here now really makes me sad. Through the first two games, even though Montreal was up, the back-and-forth was still respectable. People take things like the officiating way too personally. One PoV I really don't get is the whole 'fixed game' thing. If the game is fixed, why are you watching?!

In any event, I've had a genuinely good time in these GDTs for the most part. Though it won't 'mean' anything to anyone here (and I'm assuming that the Habs will, at some point, close this out), Tampa will be my East team-of-choice after Montreal going forward.

The fans here are great, and there's no denying the level of excitement the young talent you have brings to the game.

And remember, it is just a game! You might think I'm some arrogant Habs fan only feeling nice because we're up, but if you look back, you'll see I was here when the series started, too, and not talking trash.

 

[ThunderRoad]

Another insult to injury is the NHL keeps blacking out the Sunsports coverage for me in Raleigh (even though I pay to get those channels) so forced to watch the CBC game call. Frustrating as all get out.

 

[ffenliv]

Another insult to injury is the NHL keeps blacking out the Sunsports coverage for me in Raleigh (even though I pay to get those channels) so forced to watch the CBC game call. Frustrating as all get out.

To sports fans, I think blackouts are just infuriating. I totally feel your pain. If I could make a suggestion, though, take advantage of listening to Eliotte Friedman talk. In my opinion, he's the best on the channel, and the only true journalist they have. Just trying to provide some positive vibes to the blackout BS.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

tonight, the tampa bay lightning must die, so that we all may live, together, with them, forever.

 

[Bolts265]

With all that has been said about having a French Canadian referee in a game in Montreal one thing still stands out in my mind. Why would the league put themselves in a position of creating a controversy by chosing to make this decision. Why not just give some thought to the possibility that this has a chance of blowing up in their faces.

 

[Binary Code]

With all that has been said about having a French Canadian referee in a game in Montreal one thing still stands out in my mind. Why would the league put themselves in a position of creating a controversy by chosing to make this decision. Why not just give some thought to the possibility that this has a chance of blowing up in their faces.

Chris Lee is against the Habs so it's even

But in all seriousness the refs are and will always be blamed after each game, the league clearly couldn't care less.

 

[zeykshade]

Chris Lee is against the Habs so it's even

But in all seriousness the refs are and will always be blamed after each game, the league clearly couldn't care less.

Chris Lee isn't against anything but the game of hockey. He's an equal opportunity ****-sipper of an official.

 

[ffenliv]

With all that has been said about having a French Canadian referee in a game in Montreal one thing still stands out in my mind. Why would the league put themselves in a position of creating a controversy by chosing to make this decision. Why not just give some thought to the possibility that this has a chance of blowing up in their faces.

Going out of their way to avoid assigning something like 15% of the officiating pool to Habs games, to me, looks just as bad. It's the league admitting it thinks its officials might be unreliable. And if they're unreliable here, they're unreliable elsewhere. And if they like the Habs, they better not officiate any games whose outcome could benefit the Habs, or hurt a rival, and so on.

I really, really believe that trying to avoid this (imo: made-up) conflict will only make things worse overall for the league.

 

[zeykshade]

Going out of their way to avoid assigning something like 15% of the officiating pool to Habs games, to me, looks just as bad. It's the league admitting it thinks its officials might be unreliable. And if they're unreliable here, they're unreliable elsewhere. And if they like the Habs, they better not officiate any games whose outcome could benefit the Habs, or hurt a rival, and so on.

I really, really believe that trying to avoid this (imo: made-up) conflict will only make things worse overall for the league.

The fact that Charron is a French-Canadian means nothing. It's more that he was officiating his second playoff game ever in one of the most electric arenas. Everyone likes to claim that there's some bias in MTL from officials. It's not intentional, it's coerced. "Typical Montreal" is a real thing not because there's some league mandate or some mystique or some bull conspiracy theory. It's real because the fans do an excellent job influencing the officials.

You mix that environment with a n00blet official of average ability, like most NHL officials, you get unreliable results. 5 PP to 2 PP. Soft call against Briere to "make up" for poor no calls of high sticks and incredibly soft calls against Sustr and Hedman. Blown offsides etc.

Carey Price knows this as well as anybody. He may not articulate it as such, but he milks the officials better than almost any goalie in the league. His skate edge ******** is classic gamesmanship. Brilliant on his part, but you know he's less likely to get his way if he's not playing at home. Kerry Fraser has outlined how Price uses Rule 69.3 to his advantage on numerous occasions. He's right. His use of it is amplified when playing at home in Montreal. It's amplified even more when it's used against a n00b ref, officiating in a building he had dreams of playing in as a kid.

 

[ffenliv]

The fact that Charron is a French-Canadian means nothing. It's more that he was officiating his second playoff game ever in one of the most electric arenas. Everyone likes to claim that there's some bias in MTL from officials. It's not intentional, it's coerced. "Typical Montreal" is a real thing not because there's some league mandate or some mystique or some bull conspiracy theory. It's real because the fans do an excellent job influencing the officials.

You mix that environment with a n00blet official of average ability, like most NHL officials, you get unreliable results. 5 PP to 2 PP. Soft call against Briere to "make up" for poor no calls of high sticks and incredibly soft calls against Sustr and Hedman. Blown offsides etc.

Carey Price knows this as well as anybody. He may not articulate it as such, but he milks the officials better than almost any goalie in the league. His skate edge ******** is classic gamesmanship. Brilliant on his part, but you know he's less likely to get his way if he's not playing at home. Kerry Fraser has outlined how Price uses Rule 69.3 to his advantage on numerous occasions. He's right. His use of it is amplified when playing at home in Montreal. It's amplified even more when it's used against a n00b ref, officiating in a building he had dreams of playing in as a kid.

I'm totally on board with not giving a playoff-green ref an assignment in Montreal for his second-ever playoff game. I'm wary, as you probably understood, about attributing any of it to where he's from. And for full disclosure: I'm a fan who has considerable faith in, and respect for NHL officials. I rarely complain about blown calls, even more rarely to support my own team. I was in here 2 nights ago saying Tampa was hosed on the no-goal. Since then I've softened a bit, learning about the considerable gray area that the rules create, but that's a different story.

And about the gamesmanship: that happens with fair regularly. Anyone who's watched more than 20 games has seen a goalie go over for a new stick, to get someone to tighten a strap, or refill his water bottle to get a precious 20 seconds. Price knew it was BS, as did every player on the ice, the coaches, and all the fans. However, it happens.

I think it's important to separate incidents that probably weren't related. Understandably, a lot of Tampa fans were mad about the disallowed goal, then mad about the delay Price bought for his team. However, the two were unrelated, and goalies are given leeway all the time to 'fix' 'broken' equipment. If I were Cooper, I'd have been shaking my head, too. But Cooper knows he's had goalies do that, he's just playing the refs there. That's what good coaches do.

And for the record, Cooper is fast becoming my favourite coach in the league. He's well-spoken, he doesn't bloviate at the podium, and seems pretty likable.

 

[Mike8]

The fact that Charron is a French-Canadian means nothing. It's more that he was officiating his second playoff game ever in one of the most electric arenas. Everyone likes to claim that there's some bias in MTL from officials. It's not intentional, it's coerced. "Typical Montreal" is a real thing not because there's some league mandate or some mystique or some bull conspiracy theory. It's real because the fans do an excellent job influencing the officials.

You mix that environment with a n00blet official of average ability, like most NHL officials, you get unreliable results. 5 PP to 2 PP. Soft call against Briere to "make up" for poor no calls of high sticks and incredibly soft calls against Sustr and Hedman. Blown offsides etc.

Carey Price knows this as well as anybody. He may not articulate it as such, but he milks the officials better than almost any goalie in the league. His skate edge ******** is classic gamesmanship. Brilliant on his part, but you know he's less likely to get his way if he's not playing at home. Kerry Fraser has outlined how Price uses Rule 69.3 to his advantage on numerous occasions. He's right. His use of it is amplified when playing at home in Montreal. It's amplified even more when it's used against a n00b ref, officiating in a building he had dreams of playing in as a kid.

You make an interesting point, but you take a small sample size. 5 PP to 2 PP, when Montreal was carrying much of the play. The team that has the puck more will tend to do two things less: 1) hit, 2) take penalties.

Over a larger sample size: only 8 teams were shorthanded at home more than Montreal in the league this year.

 

[zeykshade]

I think it's important to separate incidents that probably weren't related. Understandably, a lot of Tampa fans were mad about the disallowed goal, then mad about the delay(s) Price bought for his team. However, the two were unrelated, and goalies are given leeway all the time to 'fix' 'broken' equipment. If I were Cooper, I'd have been shaking my head, too. But Cooper knows he's had goalies do that, he's just playing the refs there. That's what good coaches do.

Fixed it for you. Price got away with it twice. Once, ok. Twice, ****** officials.

 

[DFC]

I'm totally on board with not giving a playoff-green ref an assignment in Montreal for his second-ever playoff game. I'm wary, as you probably understood, about attributing any of it to where he's from. And for full disclosure: I'm a fan who has considerable faith in, and respect for NHL officials. I rarely complain about blown calls, even more rarely to support my own team. I was in here 2 nights ago saying Tampa was hosed on the no-goal. Since then I've softened a bit, learning about the considerable gray area that the rules create, but that's a different story.

And about the gamesmanship: that happens with fair regularly. Anyone who's watched more than 20 games has seen a goalie go over for a new stick, to get someone to tighten a strap, or refill his water bottle to get a precious 20 seconds. Price knew it was BS, as did every player on the ice, the coaches, and all the fans. However, it happens.

I think it's important to separate incidents that probably weren't related. Understandably, a lot of Tampa fans were mad about the disallowed goal, then mad about the delay Price bought for his team. However, the two were unrelated, and goalies are given leeway all the time to 'fix' 'broken' equipment. If I were Cooper, I'd have been shaking my head, too. But Cooper knows he's had goalies do that, he's just playing the refs there. That's what good coaches do.

And for the record, Cooper is fast becoming my favourite coach in the league. He's well-spoken, he doesn't bloviate at the podium, and seems pretty likable.

Yeah, but you have to realize, from our point of view, that 2nd period was a ref catastrophe that went way beyond those two instances. And it incorporated the linesmen as well. Missed calls, soft calls, blown off-sides, the bulk of which (not all, but the vast majority) went against us. The no-goal call was like a crescendo to one of the most frustrating periods of hockey I've ever watched. Even if it hadn't happened, it would still have been way up there on the frustration meter.

 

[Mike8]

Yeah, but you have to realize, from our point of view, that 2nd period was a ref catastrophe that went way beyond those two instances. And it incorporated the linesmen as well. Missed calls, soft calls, blown off-sides, the bulk of which (not all, but the vast majority) went against us. The no-goal call was like a crescendo to one of the most frustrating periods of hockey I've ever watched. Even if it hadn't happened, it would still have been way up there on the frustration meter.

Made all the worse because the Lightning had taken momentum at that point. Yup. It's a tough period, for sure. I hope, and expect, the team will share those feelings of frustration and come out hard tonight.

 

[ffenliv]

Yeah, but you have to realize, from our point of view, that 2nd period was a ref catastrophe that went way beyond those two instances. And it incorporated the linesmen as well. Missed calls, soft calls, blown off-sides, the bulk of which (not all, but the vast majority) went against us. The no-goal call was like a crescendo to one of the most frustrating periods of hockey I've ever watched. Even if it hadn't happened, it would still have been way up there on the frustration meter.

That's a very fair point. I keep forgetting about the bogus offside call. What I was trying to articulate was that I don't believe there was any intended bias. The crowd may have influenced calls, but, particularly in the case of the off-side, there was no time for the crowd to influence anything before the whistle went.

Basically, I'm a reasonable guy who likes to debate these things (in a friendly way!) and am pleased when I find partners in this venture.

I think all fans understand the catastrophe you experienced. We've all been there. It's f'ing miserable! I totally empathize with you, and genuinely wish it hadn't happened (although, as I said, I'm more on the fence now about the disallowed goal than I was before. I've seen convincing arguments from both sides.)

My only real issue is with fans who throw up their hands, claim the game was fixed (by the league, the refs, or whoever else might be brought in) and that's the extent of their contribution.

I *love* conversation with folks like you, and the other fellow I was replying with a moment ago. This is why I come here.

 

[ffenliv]

Fixed it for you. Price got away with it twice. Once, ok. Twice, ****** officials.

I must have missed the other time. Could you point me toward it? I don't need video or anything. And ya, screw an official who lets a goalie do that twice in a game.

 

[FDfranklin]

I must have missed the other time. Could you point me toward it? I don't need video or anything. And ya, screw an official who lets a goalie do that twice in a game.

The delay or goals being called off?

He went to the bench to get his skate "fixed" after an icing on the Habs. They would have laughed at Lindback if he did that.

As for goals called off, this was our 3rd this season that IMO were the wrong call against Price. How many teams even get 3 called off in a season let alone against the same goaltender?

 

[ffenliv]

The delay or goals being called off?

He went to the bench to get his skate "fixed" after an icing on the Habs. They would have laughed at Lindback if he did that.

As for goals called off, this was our 3rd this season that IMO were the wrong call against Price. How many teams even get 3 called off in a season let alone against the same goaltender?

sorry, I thought you were saying there were two times in the game that Price got away with delaying the game to benefit the Habs. I must have misread.

As for called off goals, I bet most teams have had 3 or more goals called off over 82 games. But 3 against the same goalie is probably pretty rare. Disallowed goals, though, are even more polarizing than regular penalty calls because of the stakes. I try to remind myself to subtract a bit from my feelings regarding a situation due to which team it happened to.

Based on a reasonable interpretation of the rule, I think the waive off was fine. However, it's equally reasonable to argue that it should stand. Frankly, the gray area created by that rule as written is a bit nuts. Add in to that that common sense suggests, to me anyway, it should have been allowed to stand.

 

[FDfranklin]

sorry, I thought you were saying there were two times in the game that Price got away with delaying the game to benefit the Habs. I must have misread.

As for called off goals, I bet most teams have had 3 or more goals called off over 82 games. But 3 against the same goalie is probably pretty rare. Disallowed goals, though, are even more polarizing than regular penalty calls because of the stakes. I try to remind myself to subtract a bit from my feelings regarding a situation due to which team it happened to.

Based on a reasonable interpretation of the rule, I think the waive off was fine. However, it's equally reasonable to argue that it should stand. Frankly, the gray area created by that rule as written is a bit nuts. Add in to that that common sense suggests, to me anyway, it should have been allowed to stand.

I wasn't the one who you originally asked the question to, I honestly don't know if Price did it multiple times, I only noticed it once.

 

[ffenliv]

I wasn't the one who you originally asked the question to, I honestly don't know if Price did it multiple times, I only noticed it once.

Heh, so you aren't. I'm losing my mind.

Anyway, with game-time rapidly approaching: best of luck to the Bolts, and I hope it's a great game!

 

[DFC]

That's a very fair point. I keep forgetting about the bogus offside call. What I was trying to articulate was that I don't believe there was any intended bias. The crowd may have influenced calls, but, particularly in the case of the off-side, there was no time for the crowd to influence anything before the whistle went.

Basically, I'm a reasonable guy who likes to debate these things (in a friendly way!) and am pleased when I find partners in this venture.

I think all fans understand the catastrophe you experienced. We've all been there. It's f'ing miserable! I totally empathize with you, and genuinely wish it hadn't happened (although, as I said, I'm more on the fence now about the disallowed goal than I was before. I've seen convincing arguments from both sides.)

My only real issue is with fans who throw up their hands, claim the game was fixed (by the league, the refs, or whoever else might be brought in) and that's the extent of their contribution.

I *love* conversation with folks like you, and the other fellow I was replying with a moment ago. This is why I come here.

Oh yeah, and I actually agree that it wasn't an intentional bias. It was just a horribly officiated game on multiple levels, and we feel like we came out on much the short end. Not only that, but it came at about the worst possible time. (I would argue it would have been easier to have that happen when down 3-0 than 2-0.)

Honestly, I've been an avid hockey fan for my entire life. I'm sure I've watched over a thousand games and possibly two thousand. And I'm not sure I've ever been heated at the officials like I was on Sunday. I'm sure I have, but it's been a long, long time. Part of that, as said, had to do with the situation. It felt like every 2 minutes something went against us. By the time Prust took Stammer down, (I don't hold Emelin responsible) I was hoping horrible things would happen to the refs.

 

[ffenliv]

Oh yeah, and I actually agree that it wasn't an intentional bias. It was just a horribly officiated game on multiple levels, and we feel like we came out on much the short end. Not only that, but it came at about the worst possible time. (I would argue it would have been easier to have that happen when down 3-0 than 2-0.)

Honestly, I've been an avid hockey fan for my entire life. I'm sure I've watched over a thousand games and possibly two thousand. And I'm not sure I've ever been heated at the officials like I was on Sunday. I'm sure I have, but it's been a long, long time. Part of that, as said, had to do with the situation. It felt like every 2 minutes something went against us. By the time Prust took Stammer down, (I don't hold Emelin responsible) I was hoping horrible things would happen to the refs.

Alright, time to let you in on the secret: I emptied my bank account and bought of the refs. I was quite surprised that a $1.49 was enough. NHL must not pay much!

For everyone Tampa fan who feels like you do, I hope karma pays you back, just not tonight!

 

[CarpeNoctem]

Being swept sucks!