GDT: 2013/14 Out of Town PLAYOFFS thread - D'Angelo's Number 9 edition

[EverettMike]

But you have to consider that a) he knew it was a movable commodity regardless (it's not like he was going to say "meh we don't like him, let's not give him a qualifying offer) and b) they likely could have afforded the contract had there not been a significant reduction in cap.

Going into the lockout plenty of teams locked up their assets and then decided to play catch up with the fall out. Which is the exact opposite of MOC did during the previous lock out (remember how successful that approach was? )

GAH! They knew the cap was going down? My goodness.

How stupid do you think Chiarelli really is?

 

[member 96824]

But you have to consider that a) he knew it was a movable commodity regardless (it's not like he was going to say "meh we don't like him, let's not give him a qualifying offer) and b) they likely could have afforded the contract had there not been a significant reduction in cap.

Going into the lockout plenty of teams locked up their assets and then decided to play catch up with the fall out. Which is the exact opposite of MOC did during the previous lock out (remember how successful that approach was? )

I think that's a stretch. If that was Chia's approach, he would have qualified him...or bridged him. If he TRULY felt that Seguin wasn't a core piece of the franchise over the next decade. (Which...if you were arguing that a year ago, you would have been very aloen)....he wouldn't have offered him an eight year contract. That wouldn't have happened.

Chia was one of the GM's saying he expected the cap to go down. It was all calculated. He's not the type that leaves major franchise altering moves to chance...I believe he has a much better grasp on the cap and the situation than signing players to accidental contracts only to be forced by cap space to move them before those contracts hit.

I think Chia, like all GM's, has his flaws, but overall cap management is not one of them. Guy has his finger on the pulse of all of this. IMO You're selling him completely short right now.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

Uuuuuugh.

You said the cap was the number one consideration. I am saying it wasn't a consideration at all. So no, we aren't arguing the same thing.

And saying the options were Loui/Iggy/Smith/Kelly or Seguin/scrub/scrub/scrub is so intellectually dishonest that you broke my will to have this conversation.

Signing Iginla had nothing to do with the deal by the way. Peverly most likely would have been amnestied no matter what. But that doesn't fit your false narrative, so whatever.

You haven't made a single compelling argument otherwise ... aside from "hockey trade"

 

[EverettMike]

You haven't made a single compelling argument otherwise ... aside from "hockey trade"

I thought I argued that Peter Chiarelli isn't a shortsighted idiot pretty well.

But if you still think so....

 

[DoubleAAAA]

I think that's a stretch. If that was Chia's approach, he would have qualified him...or bridged him. If he TRULY felt that Seguin wasn't a core piece of the franchise over the next decade. (Which...if you were arguing that a year ago, you would have been very aloen)....he wouldn't have offered him an eight year contract. That wouldn't have happened.

Chia was one of the GM's saying he expected the cap to go down. It was all calculated. He's not the type that leaves major franchise altering moves to chance...I believe he has a much better grasp on the cap and the situation than signing players to accidental contracts only to be forced by cap space to move them before those contracts hit.

I think Chia, like all GM's, has his flaws, but overall cap management is not one of them. Guy has his finger on the pulse of all of this. IMO You're selling him completely short right now.

That's fair, I think circumstances changed though, including Seguins performance in that following season/playoff.

I don't think Cap management is an issue either, but I also don't think re-evaluating value of a player subsequent to making a deal is a fault. In fact I think its shrewd. Again I don't think it was his valuation of Seguin that was the problem, it was that when it came time to sort out the roster for this season something had to move and they could fill more needs using Seguin's $ elsewhere.

 

[LSCII]

[/B]

Simple answer- because finesse hockey is not the style of hockey that the Bruins as an organization has adopted. Players play the game the way the team wants it played or they don't play here.

Maybe it's me, but I don't recall Rick Middleton ever being physical, and he was on a ton of Bruins teams that could mop the floor with most other teams. It's only recently that they've adopted this mythos that everyone has to be a cookie cutter type of guy like the player ahead of them. It's funny because we hear constantly about how on the much vaunted Behind the B story about if Seguin had been even half of Kane, the Bruins would have won the cup. How is a guy like Seguin supposed to be half of Kane, when that type of player doesn't fit their template? Basically, you can't lament that a player isn't something when you're trying to make him not be that in the first place.

 

[DoubleAAAA]

I thought I argued that Peter Chiarelli isn't a shortsighted idiot pretty well.

But if you still think so....

Come on, now who's being facetious? You know full well I haven't suggested that in the least and I've stated otherwise.

Sure they realized the cap was likely to drop, however, they also wanted control of assets and the market was what it was. The fact is they filled a large hole by moving Seguin in the 2/3L wing spot and saved $ in the process, which was required because they were tight to the cap.

Yes, they could have iced a lineup with Seguin, but that lineup would have been in direct contrast to the model of depth and balance the team has been successful with, even buying out a contract like Kelly and moving Peverley one way or another.

 

[BoyntBergie]

The Bruin's style isn't necessarily that you have to be super physical (see Krejci, Krug, Eriksson), but that you have to buy into the system and play smart hockey. That means going to dirty areas, not bailing out when you're about to get hit, not making bad decisions that lead to SH goals, etc. I don't think the Bruins saw enough of that from Seguin in his time here. Combine that with the off-ice stuff (overblown perhaps but he clearly at least had glaring maturity issues), the Chara window closing, and a Stanley Cup run where he had 1 goal, and the decision by the FO becomes pretty clear.

It's great he scored a goal last night, as we all know it took him 22 games to accomplish that feat last postseason. Perhaps if that weren't the case he'd still be here. People who lament losing Seguin should be angry at no one but him.

 

[Hali33]

Should be some great hockey tonight.
Can't believe two of STL/CHI/SJ/LA don't make it to the 2nd round.

 

[qc]

I forgot just how epic the HFplayoffs forum is.

 

[JRull86]

Can we please have a discussion about something not named Tyler freakin Seguin? Just once?

 

[CamFan81]

Maybe it's me, but I don't recall Rick Middleton ever being physical, and he was on a ton of Bruins teams that could mop the floor with most other teams. It's only recently that they've adopted this mythos that everyone has to be a cookie cutter type of guy like the player ahead of them. It's funny because we hear constantly about how on the much vaunted Behind the B story about if Seguin had been even half of Kane, the Bruins would have won the cup. How is a guy like Seguin supposed to be half of Kane, when that type of player doesn't fit their template? Basically, you can't lament that a player isn't something when you're trying to make him not be that in the first place.

wow you are trying so hard. Why?

So Ironic, Middleton WAS like seguin until he realized Don Cherry wasn't going to let him be offense minded only. Also didn't Cherry rip on Middleton for not playing well in his own end, and not checking well enough?

Middleton himself even said that Seguin didn't fit in Boston's system. Heres the interview.
http://audio.weei.com/a/89658320/rick-middleton-joins-planet-mikey.htm




and yes, the seguin talk is done for me as well.

 

[RedBruin]

I forgot just how epic the HFplayoffs forum is.

classless and gutless and it's not even close.

 

[robert terwilliger]

Maybe it's me, but I don't recall Rick Middleton ever being physical, and he was on a ton of Bruins teams that could mop the floor with most other teams. It's only recently that they've adopted this mythos that everyone has to be a cookie cutter type of guy like the player ahead of them. It's funny because we hear constantly about how on the much vaunted Behind the B story about if Seguin had been even half of Kane, the Bruins would have won the cup. How is a guy like Seguin supposed to be half of Kane, when that type of player doesn't fit their template? Basically, you can't lament that a player isn't something when you're trying to make him not be that in the first place.

scott bradley's comment was "if he gives us half of kane, we win the cup."

i didn't take it to mean skillset or template, just overall effort. that's what they're talking about on the clip. whether seguin fits. they acknowledge that he has all the skill in the world, question whether he fits the culture and say, without saying it, that he wasn't willing to do the work or go the extra mile. there's a lot between the lines.

 

[qc]

Can we please have a discussion about something not named Tyler freakin Seguin? Just once?

Nope.

Kaoz and I discussed it at the HFmods Seminar (it was very informative; also, good pastry platter).

Now, back on topic...

If Dallas wins it all, do you think Tyler will bring the cup back to Boston?

 

[robert terwilliger]

maybe.

i bet a lot of people on this board would take the day off to go and frown at him.

 

[CamFan81]

Nope.

Kaoz and I discussed it at the HFmods Seminar (it was very informative; also, good pastry platter).

Now, back on topic...

If Dallas wins it all, do you think Tyler will bring the cup back to Boston?

i thinkthe real question is would LSCII wear one of those two team jerseys

 

[Kaoz*]

Nope.

Kaoz and I discussed it at the HFmods Seminar (it was very informative; also, good pastry platter).

Now, back on topic...

If Dallas wins it all, do you think Tyler will bring the cup back to Boston?

There's been a change in plans. We're talking about the Cap now.

In the playoff forum no less. There's no cap in the playoffs damnit!

 

[doubleminor138]

classless and gutless and it's not even close.

Its not TRULY classless or gutless until the Bruins play.

That's when all the Habs and Nucks fans come to bash.

 

[LSCII]

wow you are trying so hard. Why?

So Ironic, Middleton WAS like seguin until he realized Don Cherry wasn't going to let him be offense minded only. Also didn't Cherry rip on Middleton for not playing well in his own end, and not checking well enough?

Middleton himself even said that Seguin didn't fit in Boston's system. Heres the interview.
http://audio.weei.com/a/89658320/rick-middleton-joins-planet-mikey.htm




and yes, the seguin talk is done for me as well.

When did this myth that Seguin was shirking his defensive duties come into play? The guy was plus 34 and a plus 23 his last two seasons in Boston. Even in Dallas this year, he was a plus 16. He worked on his game and he did what was asked on both ends of the ice. He's a plus 69 for his career, so again, why is this false notion that he ignored anything but the offensive zone so prevalent?

I'm with you in that I've had enough Seguin talk though. This is it for me. People see what they want anyway, and they believe what they want. Oh yeah, one last thing: Loui "Mr. Great Two Way Hockey" Eriksson is a plus 45 for his career. But again, people see what they want.

 

[TCL40]

Should be some great hockey tonight.
Can't believe two of STL/CHI/SJ/LA don't make it to the 2nd round.

Yep-wish I didn't have to work tomorrow.

STL seems to be a bit beat up so I give Chicago the advantage but I hope the Blues win anyway.

Are both Kane and Toews good to go for the Hawks?

Oshie is gonna be missed-he is one of those players I wish was a Bruin.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Yep-wish I didn't have to work tomorrow.

STL seems to be a bit beat up so I give Chicago the advantage but I hope the Blues win anyway.

Are both Kane and Toews good to go for the Hawks?

Oshie is gonna be missed-he is one of those players I wish was a Bruin.

Sounds like everyone minus Oshie is gonna be good to go tonight.

The classic "thunder vs lightning" series. the lightning being the speed and finesse of the Hawks vs the thunder of the Blues grit.

 

[zaYG]

I don't really like Philly at all, but for whatever reason, I would rather see them win over New York. Something about that Rangers team just rubs me the wrong way, and I really like Giroux.

 

[member 96824]

Sounds like everyone minus Oshie is gonna be good to go tonight.

The classic "thunder vs lightning" series. the lightning being the speed and finesse of the Hawks vs the thunder of the Blues grit.

Berglund is out tonight too last I saw

 

[zaYG]

Maybe it's me, but I don't recall Rick Middleton ever being physical, and he was on a ton of Bruins teams that could mop the floor with most other teams. It's only recently that they've adopted this mythos that everyone has to be a cookie cutter type of guy like the player ahead of them. It's funny because we hear constantly about how on the much vaunted Behind the B story about if Seguin had been even half of Kane, the Bruins would have won the cup. How is a guy like Seguin supposed to be half of Kane, when that type of player doesn't fit their template? Basically, you can't lament that a player isn't something when you're trying to make him not be that in the first place.

It really isn't about playing physical, or playing defensive (which Seguin was good at) hockey. It was simply about playing with some damned heart. Kane has heart. If you told Kane to actually go into the corners and cycle the puck, he will do it. Seguin apparently decided that he wanted to be the one person on the team who was immune to that style of play.

Krejci and Bergeron are cycling gods. Do you think Seguin would have ever supplanted them? Guy wouldn't even dig the puck out as a winger. I'll take the roster which is leagues better than last years any day.

This roster might be one of the best rosters since the 07 Ducks.