2011 NHL Draft: Vancouver Canucks placed puzzling bets

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Gillis also revamped our scouts in 2013, which shows based on that draft. So Benning entered into a better environment than Gillis did thanks to Gillis' overhaul.

Sheer balderdash. In Bennings first draft he took a player from the dub and the KHL- two things Gillis simply refused to do. To give Gillis credit for the 2014 draft is lazy and mind boggling.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Sheer balderdash. In Bennings first draft he took a player from the dub and the KHL- two things Gillis simply refused to do. To give Gillis credit for the 2014 draft is lazy and mind boggling.

Yup. And apart from Horvat, whom we acquired through trading a franchise / Vezina level goaltender, the 2013 draft has accomplished absolutely nothing thus far. It's possible Shinkaruk becomes a top 6 forward, Subban a top 6 defender, but it's also possible they end up as career AHL players. Way too early to state the 2013 draft was some sort of amazing home run.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Yes this. If you look at a draft in terms of NHLer or bust, that gives a very narrow margin for success there. If you expand it to how far up the system players got then we had 8 draft picks, 6 of them made it up to our minor pro teams, and 3 of them played games for the Canucks. This was a good draft for increasing organization depth, and actually a significant improvement over the prior regime.

Kind of like breaking down goals scored further into CORSI, or whatever advanced stat(s) you want to use. The more players you can push up to the farm team the better odds you get some NHL'ers. When Gillis took over the team for the 2008-09 season, the Manitoba Moose had only 3 regular roster players that were drafted by the Canucks.

I'm not sure what's so unusual about this draft that the writer would call it placing "puzzling bets", especially when you consider that Hockey's Future (don't know if the writer changed or not) up until the last year or two was much higher on Niklas Jensen than this board was. I believe he was listed as our top prospect for a year or two on the site, while the board poll rankings put him more around 3rd-5th... well I'm not 100% sure on my details but this was the case for at least 1 rankings.

What remarkably low standards you have for drafting. It was this kind of drafting that ultimately led to the Canucks sc window being prematurey slammed shut.

As MS pointed out Jenner was Jensen's linemate. How did Gillis and co come away that Jensen was going to be ther better NHL player?

 

[MS]

From Benning's own mouth, he mainly sat back and watched in 2014 and let the existing staff do their work as usual in order to evaluate things.

The notion that he's somehow singlehandedly responsible for turning around our drafting overnight in 2014 is one of the biggest jokes I've ever read on here. That people keep propagating it is absurd.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

From Benning's own mouth, he mainly sat back and watched in 2014 and let the existing staff do their work as usual in order to evaluate things.

The notion that he's somehow singlehandedly responsible for turning around our drafting overnight in 2014 is one of the biggest jokes I've ever read on here. That people keep propagating it is absurd.

I dont understand how you can argue that when Benning was taking a player from the WHL with the highest pick the Canucks have had in a long time and making another philosophical change in picking a Russian- even taking a goalie in the 2nd...

Are you saying Benning had no effect or even little effect on the draft when with the first 3 picks that is demonstrably false in such an obvious way?

Even if I were to admit those first 3 picks were mostly the result of Gillis much ballyhooed scouting changes, it was the philosophy change and leadership of Benning that let those scouts make those picks. At bare minimum.

 

[MS]

I dont understand how you can argue that when Benning was taking a player from the WHL with the highest pick the Canucks have had in a long time and making another philosophical change in picking a Russian- even taking a goalie in the 2nd...

Are you saying Benning had no effect or even little effect on the draft when with the first 3 picks that is demonstrably false in such an obvious way?

Even if I were to admit those first 3 picks were mostly the result of Gillis much ballyhooed scouting changes, it was the philosophy change and leadership of Benning that let those scouts make those picks. At bare minimum.

Benning had 'some' influence, sure. Allowing a Russian to be picked was a big thing - although we don't know what Gillis would have done in that regard, as the Russian economy had collapsed since the 2012 draft and players leaving became more realistic.

But our draft list that year was compiled under the watch of Eric Crawford based on work our scouts did during the season. You are completely guessing about his influence on our top 3 picks.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Benning had 'some' influence, sure. Allowing a Russian to be picked was a big thing - although we don't know what Gillis would have done in that regard, as the Russian economy had collapsed since the 2012 draft and players leaving became more realistic.

But our draft list that year was compiled under the watch of Eric Crawford based on work our scouts did during the season. You are completely guessing about his influence on our top 3 picks.

I'm not guessing. I'm making inferences based on supporting evidence. Gillis didn't draft dubbers or Russians. 2 of our first 3 picks were of those leagues. I don't understand how one can simply dismiss this.

In regards to what Gillis may have done- the KHL is still a credible league and the pull to play back in Russia is strong. You may have seen a big change for Gillis on the horizon but I don't.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Sheer balderdash. In Bennings first draft he took a player from the dub and the KHL- two things Gillis simply refused to do. To give Gillis credit for the 2014 draft is lazy and mind boggling.

I'm not trying to diminish Benning's drafts so far. Just stating that the scouting department is better now than when Gillis took over because Gillis revamped it. And the 2013 draft still looks better than the majority of Gillis' drafts due to these tweaks.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Sheer balderdash. In Bennings first draft he took a player from the dub and the KHL- two things Gillis simply refused to do. To give Gillis credit for the 2014 draft is lazy and mind boggling.

No, Gillis probably would have drafted Nylander over Virtanen, which is looking like it would have been the much better selection.

It's not balderdash to suggest that Benning walked in to an already revamped scouting staff. To suggest that would be to ignore the amazing 2013 draft we had.

Your comment about Gillis refusing to draft out of the WHL is also incorrect. In Gillis's first draft he took 2 players out of the WHL (the same amount that Benning has drafted). Rai and Clark. Benning's WHL picks looks like a botched 6th overall pick, and Mackenze Stewart.

Gillis also drafted out of the WHL in his last draft (Shinkaruk). No need to make things up.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Since we're talking about the 2011 draft, how much better would we be if we drafted out of the WHL instead of the OHL with our 1st round pick? The next ranked WHLer was David Musil. The next ranked WHL forward was Ty Rattie. I guess Utica would have a slightly better player, but I'm not seeing much for our NHL team.

 

[NoShowWilly]

wonder who the scouts are for each area.