2011 NHL Draft: Vancouver Canucks placed puzzling bets

[Diamonddog01]

Didn't he sign in the KHL last month?

Oh right. Kind of conflicting info at the moment - looks like he is listed with Sparta Moscow however the report stated he signed with St. Petersburg. Odd timing for him to leave, perhaps there is an out clause when the details come out.

 

[The Drop]

LaBate was ranked 140 spots ahead of Gaudreau. Chicago passed on Saad three times with two 1sts & early 2nd. Every single team out there had major concerns about him.

Still drafted better than Boston...

I think this part needs to be stressed when we see the usual "Bennjng draft wizard here" BS

 

[Diamonddog01]

I think this part needs to be stressed when we see the usual "Bennjng draft wizard here" BS

Why would we stress something that is patently false? Boston's drafting was pretty bad as well, but it was certainly better than the Canucks who were quite clearly the worst drafting team in the NHL from 2008 onward.

 

[The Drop]

You can say one thing for Benning. His drafting (tentatively) has been lights out compared to Gillis.

Benning picked 6th and now 5th in 2 of his 3 years.

The Virtanen pick looking like a mistake and apparently the McCann pick was a mistake too based on how quickly they dispatched him.

Demko hasn't proven a thing. Boeser looks like a good college prospect.

Guillaime Brisebois is non existent as I've heard nothing about him. And this is the guy who Benning apparently wanted in the 2nd round.

Tryamkin appears to be a good pick as well.

Has also only picked once in the 2nd round in his 3 drafts and that's probably because he didn't have time to get rid of it.

There isn't a player Benning has drafted that's better than Bo Horvat as of today.

 

[The Drop]

Whey would we stress something that is patently false?

I believe the only thing that was false was Khoklachev still being in this league.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I believe the only thing that was false was Khoklachev still being in this league.

That doesn't address the statement made. Even if Koko is KHL headed, he was a good pick. To say nothing of Hamilton, who Boston recently turned into 1st and 2 2nds.

 

[coldsteel79]

I think this part needs to be stressed when we see the usual "Bennjng draft wizard here" BS

Last time I checked Boston actually won the cup and returned to the finals though.

 

[The Drop]

That doesn't address the statement made. Even if Koko is KHL headed, he was a good pick. To say nothing of Hamilton, who Boston recently turned into 1st and 2 2nds.

9th overall pick. Vs 29th is the sword you're dying on I see.

And they traded him away as they deemed him expendable. Not surprisingly Benning wasn't there when they got a good return.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

Last time I checked Boston actually won the cup and returned to the finals though.

Last time I checked Chiarelli was the GM in those years

 

[The Drop]

Last time I checked Boston actually won the cup and returned to the finals though.

On the strength of players that were there before Benning arrived there.
Chara, Bergeron, Lucic, Thomas, Marchand, Krejci.

So what's your point?

 

[Diamonddog01]

9th overall pick. Vs 29th is the sword you're dying on I see.

And they traded him away as they deemed him expendable. Not surprisingly Benning wasn't there when they got a good return.

Is the argument that in 2011 Boston drafted worse than us or not? If now you're adding a bunch of qualifiers / modifiers to that argument to now change the original statement...

 

[The Drop]

Last time I checked Chiarelli was the GM in those years

Ya I think he forgot to check that part last time.

 

[The Drop]

Is the argument that in 2011 Boston drafted worse than us or not? If now you're adding a bunch of qualifiers / modifiers to that argument to now change the original statement...

So based on your logic, Edmonton is clearly one of the best drafting teams in the league in the last decade. Ok cool. Your point makes so much sense now.

I see how you consider Benning a draft guru now.

And clearly then the Canucks 2013 draft by Gillis destroys Bostons 2013 draft. Like annihilates it.

 

[Diamonddog01]

So based on your logic, Edmonton is clearly one of the best drafting teams in the league in the last decade. Ok cool. Your point makes so much sense now.

I see how you consider Benning a draft guru now.

And clearly then the Canucks 2013 draft by Gillis destroys Bostons 2013 draft. Like annihilates it.

Uh no, that is the not the argument at all. We are discussing who is better between two teams, not who is the best in the league.

I don't consider Benning a draft guru, I do think his last few Canuck drafts look promising. 2014 could be up there with 2004 as one of our better drafts as a franchise, still very premature however.

Sure, the 2013 Canucks draft is better. I thought we weren't allowed to include top 10 picks though And if we don't...way too premature to say that rest, which pretty much rests on Subban making the NHL and Arnesson not, 'destroys or annihilates it'.

 

[The Drop]

Uh no, that is the not the argument at all. We are discussing who is better between two teams, not who is the best in the league.

I don't consider Benning a draft guru, I do think his last few Canuck drafts look promising. 2014 could be up there with 2004 as one of our better drafts as a franchise, still very premature however.

Sure, the 2013 Canucks draft is better. I thought we weren't allowed to include top 10 picks though And if we don't...way too premature to say that rest, which pretty much rests on Subban making the NHL and Arnesson not, 'destroys or annihilates it'.

Depends on what rules you want to use. You seem dead set on stating Hamilton is the key piece that makes Bostons draft better. Fair enough.

2013 and 2012 both are better drafts for Gillis than the Bruins.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Depends on what rules you want to use. You seem dead set on stating Hamilton is the key piece that makes Bostons draft better. Fair enough.

2013 and 2012 both are better drafts for Gillis than the Bruins.

I also think Koko made that draft better - just because he is leaving for the KHL doesn't make him a bad pick. The question is, is he leaving because he isn't good enough for the NHL (I think he is) vs for other reasons such as financial or familial?

Again, still somewhat premature regarding 2012 - Griffith had a good stretch with the B's last year. Hutton probably is the better player, but I think Subban could improve and Gaunce regress.

In any case I've already done a comprehensive breakdown, by just about evey metric normally used in evaluating a draft Boston drafted better than us from 2008 - 2013. That's not saying much as we were clearly league worst during that time (numerous articles from a wide variety of sources confirm this), so we are talking the difference between 29th and 30th here.

Still, the statement that Boston drafted worse than us during the Gillis years is patently false.

 

[The Drop]

Still, the statement that Boston drafted worse than us during the Gillis years is patently false.

Similar to stating Boston drafted better every year during the Gillis years is patently false.

 

[coldsteel79]

Last time I checked Chiarelli was the GM in those years

The gm right, exactly the guy in charge of drafting. Or is it chia gets credit for the Stanley cup but not Benning, but chia is exempt for drafting, it's hard to keep track

 

[Diamonddog01]

Similar to stating Boston drafted better every year during the Gillis years is patently false.

Who said that? We were discussing 2008 to 2013 as a whole. The only specific statement, regarding a particular year, was in this thread and was that in 2011 we drafted better. We didn't.

 

[Ryp37]

The gm right, exactly the guy in charge of drafting. Or is it chia gets credit for the Stanley cup but not Benning, but chia is exempt for drafting, it's hard to keep track

Yeah if you want to completely ignore Chia calling Benning his draft guy and Benning commenting on a lot of the prospects after drafting them sure.

Chia and Benning like Gillis had a lot of the pieces in place when they got there so kudos to him for making some moves that put them over the top.

 

[coldsteel79]

Yeah if you want to completely ignore Chia calling Benning his draft guy and Benning commenting on a lot of the prospects after drafting them sure.

Chia and Benning like Gillis had a lot of the pieces in place when they got there so kudos to him for making some moves that put them over the top.

So who wears drafting success and and drafting failure? Gillis gets hammered for his drafting failure, yet chia doesn't it's all on Benning in Boston. Benning gets no credit for successful drafting here(still too early to tell). This board just reaks of agendas.

 

[Ryp37]

So who wears drafting success and and drafting failure? Gillis gets hammered for his drafting failure, yet chia doesn't it's all on Benning in Boston. Benning gets no credit for successful drafting here(still too early to tell). This board just reaks of agendas.

Gillis gets hammered for it because he took to long to change the scouting which everyone and their mom knew was bad. We constantly bashed Ron Delorme on here and still do. He should have done a full review of the staff immediately but he didn't until his last few years. He wasn't a scout like Benning is so he let the scouts in place do their thing for too long.

Benning started as a scout, he saw success in Buffalo and this helped him move up the ranks to AGM. His entire resume is based off of his scouting finds. Where did Chia start? Same place as Gillis, he was a player agent not a scout, he then went on to AGM and then GM. Now if you're a GM with a former head scout as your AGM would you not let him be your "draft guy" as Chia says? And what happened in Boston when him and Benning got there? They hired their own scouting crew. Sounds familiar.

 

[coldsteel79]

Gillis gets hammered for it because he took to long to change the scouting which everyone and their mom knew was bad. We constantly bashed Ron Delorme on here and still do. He should have done a full review of the staff immediately but he didn't until his last few years. He wasn't a scout like Benning is so he let the scouts in place do their thing for too long.

Benning started as a scout, he saw success in Buffalo and this helped him move up the ranks to AGM. His entire resume is based off of his scouting finds. Where did Chia start? Same place as Gillis, he was a player agent not a scout, he then went on to AGM and then GM. Now if you're a GM with a former head scout as your AGM would you not let him be your "draft guy" as Chia says? And what happened in Boston when him and Benning got there? They hired their own scouting crew. Sounds familiar.

Yes and then Boston proceeded to win the Stanley cup and go back to the finals, so drafting wasn't as big a priority for them

 

[Ryp37]

Yes and then Boston proceeded to win the Stanley cup and go back to the finals, so drafting wasn't as big a priority for them

You could say the same thing about Gillis, it's fine trading picks as a contending team but the draft is always important.

 

[coldsteel79]

You could say the same thing about Gillis, it's fine trading picks as a contending team but the draft is always important.

I agree and I think gillis gets a lot of **** here, the difference is though Boston won it.