2011 lines compared to todays lines. Whats better, whats worse ?

[LolClarkson*]

On the ice, I'd argue that the second line is more effective. Santorelli has played a half season like a man possessed. The only difference is that the current players have aged.

Also, the lineup is more versatile now with Kezler being available for duties on the 1st line.

Despite the loss of Erhoff, as far as injuries in a cup run go, we are deeper with Stanton and Corrado then we were in 2011.

Higgins-Kesler Santorelli

vs

Raymond-Kesler-Higgins

I was a nay sayer about the Richardson vs Lappy signing but if he can continue his solid play, he's better.

All we have to be is as good as Detroit was last year because they took the Hawks to 7 games. We are at least as good.

So absent the hockey Gods, I think this team has as good of chance as anyone.

Signed

John Garret

Click to read more...

 

[vancityluongo]

The biggest differences are that the Sedins are 70-80 point players instead of 100-110, Kesler is no longer a 40 goal scorer, Burrows can't be counted on for 30+, Luongo is no longer an elite, top-5 goalie and Ehrhoff has not been replaced.

Malhotra hasn't been replaced by one individual, but I'd argue that the overall improvement in team defense (such as the Sedins killing penalties, the emergence of Tanev, etc.) has negated that loss.

As for improvements, the bottom-6 depth is looking a lot better. And the prospect pool is much, much improved.

This team is not 2011, but it doesn't need to be. As long as it has the right mix, they have the *potential* to go far. But another top-6 forward is still needed.

 

[wonton15]

As good as Higgins and/or Santorelli have been playing, one of them shouldn't be on our second line for us to be considered a great team again. Our overall team defense helps the loss of some key pieces in 2011 and our depth is top 3 in the league. Luongo may not be the player he was but he's still a great goalie and he won't need to godmode with Torterella dictating an overall team-orientated defensive mantra.

 

[Royal Canuck]

Depth is the biggest difference from the two teams IMO.

The 2011 team had tonnes of depth and we don't have that luxury this year (Welsh, Dalpe, Sestito etc.)

 

[Hardyvan123]

The biggest differences are that the Sedins are 70-80 point players instead of 100-110, Kesler is no longer a 40 goal scorer, Burrows can't be counted on for 30+, Luongo is no longer an elite, top-5 goalie and Ehrhoff has not been replaced.

Malhotra hasn't been replaced by one individual, but I'd argue that the overall improvement in team defense (such as the Sedins killing penalties, the emergence of Tanev, etc.) has negated that loss.

As for improvements, the bottom-6 depth is looking a lot better. And the prospect pool is much, much improved.

This team is not 2011, but it doesn't need to be. As long as it has the right mix, they have the *potential* to go far. But another top-6 forward is still needed.

I agree pretty much until the last point, the core is too far from the 11 peak they had and other teams have evolved,a top 6 power forward type is desperately needed as is some chemistry on the PP.

Like the OP said though as long as they make the playoffs they have a chance but is it really a better chance than in 11?

Even die hard Canuck fans could only base that on hope and not the current team in front of them right?

 

[deckercky]

Tough to say. Can't really write a lineup with Malhotra along with Lapierre and Higgins, since they were on the team together for all of two weeks.

Same with the defence - there was only ever 1 regular season game with everyone all together, and Edler in the first half was a beast, then he was a shell of himself in the playoffs.

Likewise, Samuelsson while on provided everything that Santorelli is providing the team this year, but he was rarely on. In 2011, the second line was the Kesler line (particularly compared to the much better 2010 second line).

I think the defence is clearly better now, though not as offensive. When you factor in how good Tanev has become, along with Garrison, it's a huge step up from Ballard sitting in the press room. Stanton and Rome are probably a wash, with the edge going to Stanton.

 

[John Belushi]

I'd argue we were much deeper and diverse on defense in 2011 than you seem to give credit for.

Edler
Ehrhoff
Salo
Bieksa
Hamhuis
Ballard
Tanev
Alberts
Rome
Sweatt

If the same injuries to the back end hit this years team that hit the one in 2011, we'd be out of playoff contention.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Depth is the biggest difference from the two teams IMO.

The 2011 team had tonnes of depth and we don't have that luxury this year (Welsh, Dalpe, Sestito etc.)

No worse than Glass-Oreskovich-Tambellini

 

[Pip]

The big thing is the change is style. We're no longer an offensive juggarnaut and an effective PP team, we simply dont have the horses for it. The transition to a more LA Kings-type team is pretty obvious. The Sedins arent as dangerous offensively, but I would argue better all around players. Kesler is slightly worse, but swapping out guys like Raymond and Samualsson with guys like Santorelli and a bigger role for Higgins changes the complexion of our team dramatically.

Losing Ehrhoff hurts our mobility, transition game, and PP. Although replacing him with Garrison hurts us in those areas, Garrison is no slouch offensively and brings a very good game himself. Tanev has taken major steps forward, which unfortunately is countered by Edler regressing.

If we can learn to effectively manage leads, I think we can be a very dangerous team come playoff time and can see success there.

 

[Edo]

Depth is the biggest difference from the two teams IMO.

The 2011 team had tonnes of depth and we don't have that luxury this year (Welsh, Dalpe, Sestito etc.)

That 2011 team had zero depth up front. Zero.

Oreskovich, Glass, Tambellini, Hodgson, Malholtra, and Bolduc had no business being on a contender. We had 3 lines and Maxim Lapierre.

 

[member 202355]

Aging core is the problem. The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Higgins, Bieksa and so forth just aren't the same as they were in 2011.

 

[Grumbler]

That 2011 team had zero depth up front. Zero.

We aren't much better right now in the depth category with 4 guys on our team playing 5 minutes per game and sedins/kesler playing over 22 minutes per game.

 

[Hardyvan123]

We aren't much better right now in the depth category with 4 guys on our team playing 5 minutes per game and sedins/kesler playing over 22 minutes per game.

I think we have better depth but I doubt the star guys are going to be able to up their games in the p[layoffs and how will the long Olympic season affect guys is an unknown question as well, here or for other older teams.

 

[Butcher]

It would be difficult to match the defensive depth that team had. While the regular season performance was not due to this as someone was always injured, some of the playoff performance should be attributed to the perfect storm of injuries we had on defence that year.

If the D had been healthy to start the season, one of the top four or five was gone due to cap constraints.

 

[Potatoe1]

The biggest differences are that the Sedins are 70-80 point players instead of 100-110, Kesler is no longer a 40 goal scorer, Burrows can't be counted on for 30+, Luongo is no longer an elite, top-5 goalie

Ding, Ding,

I think the current group is just as deep if not deeper. The problem is the regression by our top forwards. The top4 guys are all way behind their 2011 pace and the team is down 1/2 goal per game because of it.

Burrows alone scored 24 even strength goals in 2011, and has zero so far this season.

 

[fancouver]

Ding, Ding,

I think the current group is just as deep if not deeper. The problem is the regression by our top forwards. The top4 guys are all way behind their 2011 pace and the team is down 1/2 goal per game because of it.

Burrows alone scored 24 even strength goals in 2011, and has zero so far this season.

And that team didn't win the cup. In fact, a worse team (on paper) won the cup, so it's alright. That same 2011 team also scored 8 goals in 7 games in the Finals. The team was based on finesse.

I actually like the make up of this current team a lot more because the wins we've been getting are blue-collar, outwork opponents type hockey. The defensive side of the game is really impressive and should surprise a lot of teams in the NHL.

Much more suited for the playoffs.

 

[Addison Rae]

The Sedins' didn't score at 100+ point paces in the playoffs, Kesler did not score at a 40 goal pace in the playoffs. They produced at around what they are right now.

 

[LolClarkson*]

The biggest differences are that the Sedins are 70-80 point players instead of 100-110, Kesler is no longer a 40 goal scorer, Burrows can't be counted on for 30+, Luongo is no longer an elite, top-5 goalie and Ehrhoff has not been replaced.

Malhotra hasn't been replaced by one individual, but I'd argue that the overall improvement in team defense (such as the Sedins killing penalties, the emergence of Tanev, etc.) has negated that loss.

As for improvements, the bottom-6 depth is looking a lot better. And the prospect pool is much, much improved.

This team is not 2011, but it doesn't need to be. As long as it has the right mix, they have the *potential* to go far. But another top-6 forward is still needed.

Sedins goal differential is better now then it was in 2011.

Every team thinks they need another top 6 forward. We don't.

 

[LolClarkson*]

As good as Higgins and/or Santorelli have been playing, one of them shouldn't be on our second line for us to be considered a great team again. Our overall team defense helps the loss of some key pieces in 2011 and our depth is top 3 in the league. Luongo may not be the player he was but he's still a great goalie and he won't need to godmode with Torterella dictating an overall team-orientated defensive mantra.

This is Detroits game 6 lineup against the Hawks last year.

Left Wing Center Right Wing
Johan Franzen Pavel Datsyuk Justin Abdelkader
Valtteri Filppula Henrik Zetterberg Daniel Cleary
Gustav Nyquist Joakim Andersson Damien Brunner
Drew Miller Cory Emmerton Patrick Eaves

Left Defenseman Right Defenseman
Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson
Kyle Quincey Brendan Smith
Carlo Colaiacovo Jakub Kindl

 

[LolClarkson*]

Ding, Ding,

I think the current group is just as deep if not deeper. The problem is the regression by our top forwards. The top4 guys are all way behind their 2011 pace and the team is down 1/2 goal per game because of it.

Burrows alone scored 24 even strength goals in 2011, and has zero so far this season.

Burrows is just having one of those seasons. He was due for an off season. Hopefully he is 100% for the playoffs.

As I said, the Sedins goal differential is better so that counters their point reduction.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Apples and oranges.

The 2011 team had a much more effective 1st line, and a decent 2nd line. Thus far I'd give a slight edge to the 2014 team's 2nd line, but the 1st line has been nowhere near as good. The 3rd line has been ok - I'd say the 2014 3rd line wingers are a bit more effective but 2011 Malhotra puts the 2011 3rd line over the op. Both teams had poor 4th lines which is a huge indicator of teams that do not fare particularly well in the playoffs. You need a 4th line capable of 8 minutes a night or more for the long grind that is the SCP.

I far preferred to the d core of the 2011 team, and it was a better mix both offensively and defensively. Still prefer the Hoff to Garrison (whom I like), although the emergence of Tanev and Stanton have been pleasant surprises that make this less one-sided. As a group the 2014 is missing a dynamic puck-moving transition focused defenceman, much as it was prior to the trade for Ehrhoff.

Goaltending is a wash imo.

Personally I think this year the team has overachieved and I've been pleasantly proven wrong. Also think 2014-2015 will be a monster year for the Canucks as they will finally have good depth throughout the lineup (especially the 3rd and 4th lines which are critical) and Kassian will hopefully continue his slow, incremental progression as an NHL player.

 

[Hardyvan123]

The Sedins' didn't score at 100+ point paces in the playoffs, Kesler did not score at a 40 goal pace in the playoffs. They produced at around what they are right now.

I think the point is that all 3 players are quite a bit past their offensive peaks at this point compared to the 11 regular season.

 

[rypper]

I would argue Kesler being quite a bit past his peak. A healthy Kesler could meet or surpass his career high. I'll concede the Sedins though.

 

[Hardyvan123]

I would argue Kesler being quite a bit past his peak. A healthy Kesler could meet or surpass his career high. I'll concede the Sedins though.

For Kesler I mean strictly in goal scoring terms he is a solid 25 goal guy but not a 40 goal one.

If anything having him stay healthy is key for a deep playoff run but as much as they are on a peak right now, it questionable what the playoffs will deliver with the ghosts of past years IMO.

And while Santorelli and Higgins have had very strong years, in terms of expectations, a carryover to the playoffs isn't automatic by any means.

like it or not the playoffs favour heavy teams like LA and the Blues and our PP is really a weak point and the area that is probably most critical IMO.

 

[RandV]

The Sedins' didn't score at 100+ point paces in the playoffs, Kesler did not score at a 40 goal pace in the playoffs. They produced at around what they are right now.

We also didn't have Manny in the playoffs, apart for the last 6 games where he wasn't effective, which left Lapierre as the full time 3rd center and Bolduc/Hodgson/??? as the 4th line centers. For as close as we get our forward depth wasn't very good, with the center depth being horrible.