Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
Thanks for validating as I knew someone mentioned Dvorak.
If you search my posts you will see that I had wanted us to take a few of the forwards still on the board, certainly not another defenseman at that spot.
2010 NHL Draft: New Jersey Devils get few selections, fewer rewards at 2010 draft
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Thanks for validating as I knew someone mentioned Dvorak.
If you search my posts you will see that I had wanted us to take a few of the forwards still on the board, certainly not another defenseman at that spot.
They mentioned Dvorak, but not in the context you were implying.
I don't think you were alone in that. Most of us preferred a forward at #41. The problem being that none of us have to put our neck on the line. It's not that helpful to name a few forwards and then act incredulous if one of them ends up panning out.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
It may be a premature opinion, but from what I have seen so far, I don't think Jacobs will pan out.
Shero should use him as trade bait in a larger deal.
JimEIV
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Based on what?
He was just named to the Big 10 All Freshman Team with Zach Werenski who is going to be a top 10 pick soon...
http://btn.com/2015/03/16/big-ten-announces-all-big-ten-hockey-teams-and-individual-honors/
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
I got to see Jacobs when he played against Princeton. I completely disagree with the idea that he won't pan out. He was (and still is ) very raw and this was still early on in the season, but he was already playing on the top-pairing and in all situations (PP, PK, opponents' empty net). I really look forward to seeing his development further.
He looks like a real diamond pick, even though we were hoping for a forward. He's a long-term project, imo, but I really like what I've seen from him.
Tremendous two-way defenseman with a booming slap shot.
Jacobs being on Michigan State doesn't help either. Their offense only put up 2.37 goals per game, but they were still a .500 club thanks to their defense/goaltending. Jacobs got a regular shift, so that's encouraging. But if you were hoping Jacobs was going to put up video game numbers, you're probably setting yourself up for disappointment.
We'll see if Jacobs contends for a spot on the US WJC squad. It'd be encouraging if he gets a call to attend their summer camp.
We'll see if Jacobs contends for a spot on the US WJC squad. It'd be encouraging if he gets a call to attend their summer camp.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
And no goals to show for it this past season.
I watched him around 4 times this season, yeah he's young and raw but I did not like his foot speed not his feel for the game.
Let's revisit in 3 years.
The thing I hate about threads like this is when a discussion comes up about teams going through hot/cold spells in the draft, and someone says something like "even Detroit had a bunch of leans years in the mid-2000s" or something like that, and then I look and between 2003-2008, and they still pulled all of:
Howard
Quincey
Franzen
Kindl
Abdelkader
Helm
Matthias
Smith
Andersson
Nyquist
out of the draft. I mean...****, lol. And you could say they've definitely turned it around since then. Look at 2011, they might have picked an entire bottom-4 group of # in one draft, with Ouellet, Sproul, Backman (though he was traded for Cole), and Marchenko, and all those picks came after Jurco at #35 overall. Just insane.
In contrast to our abysmal 2010 draft, Detroit walked away with Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, and Mrazek. That probably would have been our entire second line and maybe even starting goaltender last season.
Even more depressing if you look at where they've been selecting: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html They've had 7 first-round picks since 2000, and the only one of them that's been a real hit (first line forward or top-pairing D) was Kronwall in 2000.
Howard
Quincey
Franzen
Kindl
Abdelkader
Helm
Matthias
Smith
Andersson
Nyquist
out of the draft. I mean...****, lol. And you could say they've definitely turned it around since then. Look at 2011, they might have picked an entire bottom-4 group of # in one draft, with Ouellet, Sproul, Backman (though he was traded for Cole), and Marchenko, and all those picks came after Jurco at #35 overall. Just insane.
In contrast to our abysmal 2010 draft, Detroit walked away with Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, and Mrazek. That probably would have been our entire second line and maybe even starting goaltender last season.
Even more depressing if you look at where they've been selecting: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html They've had 7 first-round picks since 2000, and the only one of them that's been a real hit (first line forward or top-pairing D) was Kronwall in 2000.
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The thing I hate about threads like this is when a discussion comes up about teams going through hot/cold spells in the draft, and someone says something like "even Detroit had a bunch of leans years in the mid-2000s" or something like that, and then I look and between 2003-2008, and they still pulled all of:
Howard
Quincey
Franzen
Kindl
Abdelkader
Helm
Matthias
Smith
Andersson
Nyquist
out of the draft. I mean...****, lol. And you could say they've definitely turned it around since then. Look at 2011, they might have picked an entire bottom-4 group of # in one draft, with Ouellet, Sproul, Backman (though he was traded for Cole), and Marchenko, and all those picks came after Jurco at #35 overall. Just insane.
In contrast to our abysmal 2010 draft, Detroit walked away with Sheahan, Jarnkrok, Pulkkinen, and Mrazek. That probably would have been our entire second line and maybe even starting goaltender last season.
Even more depressing if you look at where they've been selecting: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005492.html They've had 7 first-round picks since 2000, and the only one of them that's been a real hit (first line forward or top-pairing D) was Kronwall in 2000.
Detroit seems to draft purely on IQ and skill. My roommate is a wings fan so we have had many discussions on the differences between Wings and Devils.
The wings do a great job at drafting forwards for the aforementioned reason. If you read the prospects forum before a draft, the Wings seem to take a lot of players that you'll see posters comment about because they have a ton of skill. When these players hit, they turn into great players.
On the flipside, the Wings are not very good at drafting defense. Look at the 2003-2008 defenceman you listed. Kindl is barely a bottom-pairing defender. Smith has his moments but is inconsitent and so is Quincey. It was so bad that they traded a first for Quincey a couple years back at the trade deadline. Not having a RH D was also a thorn in Babcocks side for years.
I'd like to think that the Devils will go more the Detroit path this year. We have players that project to be bottom 6 players. Lots of them. We need high end skill this year at the forward position.
The one comment I have to type is that there does not seem to be enough love given for how the Devils draft defense. Majority of the Devils D prospects are big and mobile. I love this drafting method and we all are definitely see it pay off.
JimEIV
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I would say our 2003 through 2008 is significantly better... Parise alone is better than that entire Detroit list but add
Parise
Zajac
Fanyne
Oduya
Greene
Clarkson
Halishuk who returned Arnott
Bergfors, Cormier who helped return Kovalchuk
Nick Palmieri who helped return Zidlicky
Henrique
Is wildly better quality than that Detroit list.
Parise
Zajac
Fanyne
Oduya
Greene
Clarkson
Halishuk who returned Arnott
Bergfors, Cormier who helped return Kovalchuk
Nick Palmieri who helped return Zidlicky
Henrique
Is wildly better quality than that Detroit list.
I don't think we should confuse making good trades with players we drafted with drafting well. IMO those are 2 seperate thing.
From the little I saw, I really liked his feel for the game. Might lack foot speed, but he's also a pretty darn big kid. Larsson also lacks foot speed and he was drafted 4th, and really appeared to be putting it together last season.
Now I was not a big fan of the pick at the time, absolutely prefered going fwd there, but that should not obscure the fact that he looks like a good player.
JimEIV
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Asset management really can't be separated...If the draft pick was good enough to return another asset, a good NHL caliber asset, how do we judge the value of that draft pick?
So if Christian Berglund only played 86 NHL games and Victor Uchevatov played none...
but those two returned Viktor Kozlov who played 897 NHL games (only 80 with NJ) what was the value of those two picks? Can you really say they were worth nothing?
JimEIV
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That is an interesting comment...I haven't seen him play this year so I really don't have an opinion...But everything I've read about him says his skating is his number 1 asset?
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Yes. Because it's evaluation of two different things.
If you are evaluating performance of scouting players yet to be drafted, then it's absolutely important to know if those players panned out. The ratio of good players to busts should be identified.
Since this conversation is re: drafting (and not re: how well we've done in trades), the fact that our picks didn't pan out seems very relevant.
JimEIV
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That's fair.
But let me ask, if one team produces one player who scores 300 goals over a period and another team produces 4 players who produce 300 goals in the same period who drafted better?
And to another level, if you find an undrafted top pairing defenseman but another team drafts 3 4/5 types which scouts did a better job? Or if you draft a #1 and another team drafts a few 5/6, which scouts did better?
Parise, Zajac, Henrique add Clarkson and Fayne add Greene is a 1st line plus and a top D pairing in the 5 year time frame of 2003 through 2008.
To me that is more than enough talent to meet expectations and win. I consider that a very good record.
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
From one of your sources listed (the Bleacher Report article I believe):
Something to consider...
When I saw him I really liked his skating, and I saw no problems with it whatsoever. He moved around the ice very fluidly.
JimEIV
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May I ask what month you saw him? I only ask because you mentioned it was early in the season.
Devils Dominion
Now we Plummet
I think late-June.
It should be a competitive prospect camp with legit jobs in Albany and possibly NJ open at forward.
thethinglonger
Castron & Crew
Feed Me A Stray Cat
Registered User
I feel like so many prospect scouting reports are so generic. What percentage of defensemen are smooth skating with a hard shot from the point?
DevilsJunkie
Registered User
Re: Jacobs...
If I'm not mistaken, he played in every Spartans game this year. In addition to that, (as mentioned before) he played in all situations. He did all this as a true freshman in a tough conference. IMHO, his development / progression seems to be going pretty well. As it always is with prospects, how he builds on his past year is key. Right now, I see no reason as to why his positive progression shouldn't continue.
If I'm not mistaken, he played in every Spartans game this year. In addition to that, (as mentioned before) he played in all situations. He did all this as a true freshman in a tough conference. IMHO, his development / progression seems to be going pretty well. As it always is with prospects, how he builds on his past year is key. Right now, I see no reason as to why his positive progression shouldn't continue.
