2009 Datsyuk or Current MacKinnon?

[authentic]

I just love the genius line of "He hasn't even scored 100 points yet". In his worst offensive year in the last three seasons, he had 99 in 82. He also had 97 in 74 and 93 in 69, but yeah, let's focus on the magic 100. Meanwhile, Datsyuk, who never scored a 100 gets a pass. Not to mention that Datsyuk never came close to scoring 40 goals.

Then we come to the quality of teammates, please tell me with a straight face that Nate's group is more impressive than the 09 Wings? Datsyuk featured on 33% of Detroit goals and scored 11% of them, Nate featured in 40% of Avs goals and scored 15% of them by himself. He also did it missing Mikko, Gabe, Kadri and Cale for good chunks of the season, while Datsyuk played with a 31 goal Zetterberg, 34 goal Franzen and 41 goal Hossa. And then Nate followed up with 25 in 15 in the playoffs while Datsyuk had 9 in 16.

Close offensively? Give me a freaking break.

You do realize that the ice time was more spread out for Detroit back then and Datsyuk actually played 2 minutes less of powerplay time per game than Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin at the time, while being hands down the best defensive forward, right?

 

[Islay1989]

You can't argue about one player having a worse supporting cast then the other, then immediately point to the percentage of points they were a part of (if a player has a stronger supporting cast they will have more players who can score points, reducing the percentage of goals they are a part of). If Mackinnon played on the 2009 Wings do you think he still features on 50% of their goals?

Well yes, it's a double edged sword for sure. My point was that Nate contributed more to his team offense and that Datsyuk didn't exactly lack in the support department.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I had to check, but holy shit lol. Dude is 42 and leading the league.

I remember when some Wings fans were consoling themselves for him breaking his contract by saying his ankle was held together with duct tape and he was done anyway.

I know the KHL isn't the NHL but it's 5 seasons after that happened and he's playin almost 18 minutes a night and leading the league in scoring.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

I remember when some Wings fans were consoling themselves for him breaking his contract by saying his ankle was held together with duct tape and he was done anyway.

I know the KHL isn't the NHL but it's 5 seasons after that happened and he's playin almost 18 minutes a night and leading the league in scoring.

I don't know that I remember anybody doing this. I'm sure there was an anecdotal reference or two, but even a broken down Datsyuk playing hurt was one of the most entertaining in the league to watch.

 

[moropanov]

Datsyuk in the regular season.

However, MacKinnon seems to have that switch that Datsyuk never did in the playoffs. MacKinnon has been much, much better in the playoffs than Datsyuk ever was.

 

[Varan]

Datsyuk in the regular season.

However, MacKinnon seems to have that switch that Datsyuk never did in the playoffs. MacKinnon has been much, much better in the playoffs than Datsyuk ever was.

except in a game 7

 

[Hockeyholic]

Old good player vs current good player: older player will almost always win. Same thing with current good player vs future good player.

HF hates active players that are actually good. It’s hilarious

Except in this case there's really no argument for MacKinnon over Datsyuk.

 

[Hockeyholic]

I don't think Datsyuk was ever the first or second best player in the NHL, like MacKinnon is now.

So I vote MacKinnon.

And MacKinnon wouldn't be the best player in 09 either. Datsyuk was up against Ovi & Crosby. MacKinnon isn't up against anybody as good as they were.

 

[moropanov]

And MacKinnon wouldn't be the best player in 09 either. Datsyuk was up against Ovi & Crosby. MacKinnon isn't up against anybody as good as they were.

OV & Crosby weren't good enough to drop 128 in 82 or 110 in 70. MacKinnon is going against a stronger competition right now.

 

[Hockeyholic]

OV & Crosby weren't good enough to drop 128 in 82 or 110 in 70. MacKinnon is going against a stronger competition right now.

He absolutely isn't. Point totals don't tell the story.

Crosby & Ovi were on another level to McDrai, Kucherov, and so forth.

 

[moropanov]

He absolutely isn't. Point totals don't tell the story.

Crosby & Ovi were on another level.

Nope. McDavid and MacKinnon are on a whole another level with the things they can do at high speed and how they skate. Not close.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Nope. McDavid and MacKinnon are on a whole another level with the things they can do at high speed and how they skate. Not close.

Thank you. Ovi & Crosby were better than the competition today.

I agree.

 

[moropanov]

Thank you. Ovi & Crosby were better than the competition today.

I agree.

Outscored by Henrik Sedin at their peaks, yet supposedly would put up 150 points today. The nostalgia overration is gross.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Outscored by Henrik Sedin at their peaks, yet supposedly would put up 150 points today. The nostalgia overration is gross.

McDavid/Draisaitl vs Crosby/Malkin

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I don't know that I remember anybody doing this. I'm sure there was an anecdotal reference or two, but even a broken down Datsyuk playing hurt was one of the most entertaining in the league to watch.

If you go back and wade into any of the "Datsyuk leaving" threads in the Wings forum, there's plenty of people saying he was basically done anyway because of his ankles.


But I agree. A broken down Datsyuk would still have been one of the best players on the team and fun to watch for another season.

 

[authentic]

He absolutely isn't. Point totals don't tell the story.

Crosby & Ovi were on another level to McDrai, Kucherov, and so forth.

McDavid is easily on the same level, the others are not too far off.

 

[authentic]

Datsyuk in the regular season.

However, MacKinnon seems to have that switch that Datsyuk never did in the playoffs. MacKinnon has been much, much better in the playoffs than Datsyuk ever was.

Offensively maybe, Datsyuks overall game was amazing. He had 76 points in 79 straight playoff games from 2007-10 with Selke caliber defense. He played hurt for most of 2009 (he was visibly far from 100% but still created tons of chances and played great defense) so excluding that run he had 67 points in 63 relatively healthy games during his prime.

15 points in 11 games is pretty close to any 11 game stretch MacKinnon has had, also scoring was lower then.

 

[ViD]

McDavid is a pretty terrible team leader, let’s stop there. Crosby and Ovechkin are two guys players dream to play with

 

[nowhereman]

I mean datsyuk was flirting with 100 points while being the best Defensive forward in the league by a mile. His production wasn’t far off what Mack is giving who hasn’t even hit 100 points either.

I'm not sure about that. There's an argument that he might not have even been the best pure defensive shutdown player on his team (Zetterberg) and players like Madden, Richards, Kesler, Toews, Bergeron, etc. were right there with him. What made him truly great was that, like you said, he mixed great defense with elite offense.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Outscored by Henrik Sedin at their peaks, yet supposedly would put up 150 points today. The nostalgia overration is gross.

OV played 10 less games than Sedin but was only 3pts behind. 1st in PPG and GPG by a mile. Lindsay winner. Come on now.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

2 players who some people foolishly try to pump as "best in the league" despite them never being close. But Datsyuk here.

 

[Foppberg]

As an Avs fan, Datsyuk. He put up 90+ points while also winning the Selke.

No contest.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

The only comparable thing with these 2 players is that they’re both under a career ppg in the NHL.


Datsyuk and it is not close.

 

[Regal]

Datsyuk in the regular season.

However, MacKinnon seems to have that switch that Datsyuk never did in the playoffs. MacKinnon has been much, much better in the playoffs than Datsyuk ever was.

I think Datsyuk has an unfair playoff reputation. He was very good in '07, '08, '10 and '11, which was the bulk of his best seasons. He had a poor '09, but he was playing through injury. The majority of the rest of his playoffs are either pre-prime or small samples.

 

[um]

To be fair, he was going against Crosby and peak OV.

and Malkin... all three were better than McDavid in 2009.