2005-2015 Alternate Reality

[Dionysus]

Coming out of the 2004-2005 lockout the Sens were one of the top teams in the league, but had been dogged by playoff failures, particularly against the Maple Leafs.

They were in a cap bind as well, with many elite talents causing tough decisions to be made.

In hindsight, it appears they were exceptionally close to a team that could have been a cup contender for years. A couple poor decisions shortened their cup window to 2005-2007.

Trading Hossa for Heatley started their demise. Heatley shone bright for a couple seasons before flaming out. Hossa went on to play in 5 Cup Finals, and continued to be an elite player pretty much until he retired.

Keeping Redden over Chara. At the time both were very good defenceman. It was a tough decision. Chara was apparently not happy with the shady dealings Muckler made in signing Hossa before immediately trading him to Atlanta. He also had a poor playoffs against Buffalo in 05-06.

As we all know, Redden's play tailed off quickly and he was gone by 2008. Chara on the other hand went on to win a Cup and play at a high level into his 40's.

The last big mistake coming out of the lockout was squandering the 9th overall pick on Brian Lee with Anze Kopitar on the board. Three time Cup winner, still playing at a high level.

These three decisions being swapped leaves the Alternate Reality Senators with a powerhouse that could have contended for 10+ years. Viability under the cap would likely take some creativity.

-Kopitar-Hossa
-Spezza-Alfie
Vermette-Fisher-Neil

Chara-Phillips
Volchenkov

All of the poor decisions involved picking North American over a European. Possibly some bias on Muckler's part. The Sens were also thought of as a soft team of euros by many at that time.

Interesting to think about the long-term ramifications of every big decision as this current team goes into a potential off-season of changes.

Click to read more...

 

[Adele Dazeem]

No mention of goaltending?

 

[Dionysus]

No mention of goaltending?

Fair point. Wonder if Hasek would have stuck around with Chara and Hossa. Goaltending was always an issue no doubt. Gerber was not it lol

 

[bicboi64]

Fair point. Wonder if Hasek would have stuck around with Chara and Hossa. Goaltending was always an issue no doubt. Gerber was not it lol

Didn't Hasek want to come back for 06-07 but the organization decided no?

 

[Senscore]

Love Hossa, but he went Cup chasing and was never "the guy" on any of those teams.

 

[Dionysus]

Didn't Hasek want to come back for 06-07 but the organization decided no?

I think their was some loss of trust after the Olympic injury and Hasek's subsequent refusal to play. Not sure exactly who decided what when he went back to Detroit.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Hossa for heatley was the beginning of the end.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

They got screwed by the introduction of the salary cap, and it being too early for their to be any established norms contract wise in relation to the cap.

Even looking at Hossa, that was a cap trade. Heatley was cheaper.

Even when Hasek, I don't think they beat Anaheim.

The alternate reality for me is if they beat New Jersey or Pittsburgh in OT. To me those feel like teams or circumstances where we could have won the cup final. The 2017 team wasn't very good, but they were on a magical run and Nashville was not a power house.

 

[Dionysus]

Love Hossa, but he went Cup chasing and was never "the guy" on any of those teams.

He went Cup chasing after being dumped from a cup contender onto the Atlanta Thrashers. He wasn't the guy, but he was damn good. His seasons in Atlanta were incredible as well. 525 goals, 1134 points playing in lower scoring eras, with the post lockout scoring bump in-between.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I mostly lost faith after we lost Hasek and seeing the drop off from him to Emery. Ironically, we went to the finals anyways the next year, but I never really believed in the guy and felt like the death knell to me.

Chara leaving over Redden is obviously a pretty huge factor and probably the turning point. Chara, Hossa & Hasek off the roster is 3 HOF's gone, even if some of what Hossa brought was replaced.

 

[Loach]

We've been living in an alternate reality for the past 7 or 8 years. We don't need other ones.

 

[Answer]

Also let me remind everyone of throwing away a player that was Havlat

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

I mostly lost faith after we lost Hasek and seeing the drop off from him to Emery. Ironically, we went to the finals anyways the next year, but I never really believed in the guy and felt like the death knell to me.

Chara leaving over Redden is obviously a pretty huge factor and probably the turning point. Chara, Hossa & Hasek off the roster is 3 HOF's gone, even if some of what Hossa brought was replaced.

If we keep Chara, we probably don't get Karlsson. That's the butterfly effect.

We may have ended up too far back to jump the Ducks, and he ends up going to Anaheim.

The other thing is that the Melnyk stuff really turned up at least in the public eye around 2012, and we became a pretty restrictive budget team with a lot of chaos. There is no guarantee Chara would have stayed here beyond his extension.

The way I see it, we were doomed regardless. Our roster had to be partially disassembled because we were already at the peak of our build and it wasn't optimized with the cap in mind, because the cap didn't exist when the team was built. It also took a few years for teams to figure out how players should be paid and how to work with the cap strategically.

By the time we would have re-tooled (as we did in our timeline) - Chara, Spezza, whoever - they probably want out because of the budget. Then the Melnyk stuff ensured that we were never going to be successful until the team changed hands.

With that said, Erik Karlsson's goatee makes me wonder if we somehow switched to the evil-timeline.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If we keep Chara, we probably don't get Karlsson. That's the butterfly effect.

We may have ended up too far back to jump the Ducks, and he ends up going to Anaheim.

The other thing is that the Melnyk stuff really turned up at least in the public eye around 2012, and we became a pretty restrictive budget team with a lot of chaos. There is no guarantee Chara would have stayed here beyond his extension.

The way I see it, we were doomed regardless. Our roster had to be partially disassembled because we were already at the peak of our build and it wasn't optimized with the cap in mind, because the cap didn't exist when the team was built. It also took a few years for teams to figure out how players should be paid and how to work with the cap strategically.

By the time we would have re-tooled (as we did in our timeline) - Chara, Spezza, whoever - they probably want out because of the budget. Then the Melnyk stuff ensured that we were never going to be successful until the team changed hands.

With that said, Erik Karlsson's goatee makes me wonder if we somehow switched to the evil-timeline.

I’ll take Hossa and chara over karlsson lol who the f*** is karlsson

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Draft Kopitar over Lee in 2005.

We win the Cup in 2007 with the extra secondary scoring.

 

[GCK]

Muckler was as bad as Dorion. One was senile the other an idiot.

 

[GCK]

The good news is that we are beginning a new reality. Quality owner who maintains a healthy business outside of his dream/hobby. 1st time.

 

[Xspyrit]

Coming out of the 2004-2005 lockout the Sens were one of the top teams in the league, but had been dogged by playoff failures, particularly against the Maple Leafs.

They were in a cap bind as well, with many elite talents causing tough decisions to be made.

In hindsight, it appears they were exceptionally close to a team that could have been a cup contender for years. A couple poor decisions shortened their cup window to 2005-2007.

Trading Hossa for Heatley started their demise. Heatley shone bright for a couple seasons before flaming out. Hossa went on to play in 5 Cup Finals, and continued to be an elite player pretty much until he retired.

Keeping Redden over Chara. At the time both were very good defenceman. It was a tough decision. Chara was apparently not happy with the shady dealings Muckler made in signing Hossa before immediately trading him to Atlanta. He also had a poor playoffs against Buffalo in 05-06.

As we all know, Redden's play tailed off quickly and he was gone by 2008. Chara on the other hand went on to win a Cup and play at a high level into his 40's.

The last big mistake coming out of the lockout was squandering the 9th overall pick on Brian Lee with Anze Kopitar on the board. Three time Cup winner, still playing at a high level.

These three decisions being swapped leaves the Alternate Reality Senators with a powerhouse that could have contended for 10+ years. Viability under the cap would likely take some creativity.

-Kopitar-Hossa
-Spezza-Alfie
Vermette-Fisher-Neil

Chara-Phillips
Volchenkov

All of the poor decisions involved picking North American over a European. Possibly some bias on Muckler's part. The Sens were also thought of as a soft team of euros by many at that time.

Interesting to think about the long-term ramifications of every big decision as this current team goes into a potential off-season of changes.

What about that Havlat trade and the drafting in general from 2002 to 2007?

Scary thought is Dorion was actually much much worse than Muckler.

 

[Tuna99]

Muckler was as bad as Dorion. One was senile the other an idiot.

John Muckler had more hockey knowledge in his fingernails then your entire extended family will ever have in their entire lives

The one thing Muckler did that Murray and Dorion refused to do was stand up to Melnyck and tell him to f*** off. t Murray and Dorion became GMs because they sucked the Melnyck teat everyday before work And praised a gross and dishonest man in the media whenever they could. Muckler had integrity - the other two were yes men to a deranged and entitled ass clown and did whatever he said.


Muckler was a man, Murray and Dorion were yes-men to a immature child

 

[JD1]

I'm not much for looking back at life and asking what if?

Hossa. Pretty much everyone here is higher on him than me. To me, he was the poster child for not getting it done during the 4 years of leaf losses. People criticize Lalime. His numbers were exceptional. We lost because we couldn't score. Heatley could score and we ended up in a final.

Chara. That's a hard one. That hurt.

Kopitar. I think if the only thing that changed was we got 15 years of Kopitar we'd have won a cup

 

[TkachukMyAho]

John Muckler had more hockey knowledge in his fingernails then your entire extended family will ever have in their entire lives

The one thing Muckler did that Murray and Dorion refused to do was stand up to Melnyck and tell him to f*** off. t Murray and Dorion became GMs because they sucked the Melnyck teat everyday before work And praised a gross and dishonest man in the media whenever they could. Muckler had integrity - the other two were yes men to a deranged and entitled ass clown and did whatever he said.


Muckler was a man, Murray and Dorion were yes-men to a immature child

You are quite wrong grouping Murray into this. Murray did a fantastic job of keeping Melnyk at bay and operating this club. Melnyk never became a true nuisance until the post Murray days. Dorion however was a total puppet.

 

[Dionysus]

What about that Havlat trade and the drafting in general from 2002 to 2007?

Scary thought is Dorion was actually much much worse than Muckler.

Havlat trade was bad, but with the cap they had to move someone. Could have done a lot better though.

Drafting in that period was certainly not great. The Lee over Kopitar pick is the major gaffe I think though. All the other ones add up, but that one is franchise changing.

 

[Xspyrit]

Havlat trade was bad, but with the cap they had to move someone. Could have done a lot better though.

Drafting in that period was certainly not great. The Lee over Kopitar pick is the major gaffe I think though. All the other ones add up, but that one is franchise changing.

I wonder which pick was worse... Lee or Boucher?

I think Boucher is worse, Lee had some promise

 

[Golden_Jet]

Still mad at trading Hossa for lazy Heatley.

 

[UglyPuckling]

They got screwed by the introduction of the salary cap, and it being too early for their to be any established norms contract wise in relation to the cap.

Even looking at Hossa, that was a cap trade. Heatley was cheaper.

Even when Hasek, I don't think they beat Anaheim.

The alternate reality for me is if they beat New Jersey or Pittsburgh in OT. To me those feel like teams or circumstances where we could have won the cup final. The 2017 team wasn't very good, but they were on a magical run and Nashville was not a power house.

I always thought that 2003 was our best. That one goal that NJ scored kept us from going to the Cup final which I think we would have won had we gotten there. I was pumped when we got Hasek because I thought that was the one missing piece. Then the lockout and CBA happened. Incredilbly bad timing that altered Senator fortunes unfortunately.