2005-2015 Alternate Reality

[Cosmix]

I wonder which pick was worse... Lee or Boucher?

I think Boucher is worse, Lee had some promise

In hindsight, the options were better when Lee was taken than when Boucher was taken. Kopitar versus Sillinger - big difference.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Fair point. Wonder if Hasek would have stuck around with Chara and Hossa. Goaltending was always an issue no doubt. Gerber was not it lol

I might be mistaken, but I think the team on all fronts was furious with Hasek's refusal to play in the playoffs. Players went to him personally and pleaded with him to play, but he refused.

I don't think there was any reality where the players or the front office would have welcomed Hasek back.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Love Hossa, but he went Cup chasing and was never "the guy" on any of those teams.

Didn’t need to be. But I mean heatley wasnt the guy either?

At least Hossa showed the will to actually want a cup.

Chara was the guy and we lost him because Hossa as well.

I might be mistaken, but I think the team on all fronts was furious with Hasek's refusal to play in the playoffs. Players went to him personally and pleaded with him to play, but he refused.

I don't think there was any reality where the players or the front office would have welcomed Hasek back.

Several players said they would not be back if hasek was back. Hasek offered to stay

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I'm not much for looking back at life and asking what if?

Hossa. Pretty much everyone here is higher on him than me. To me, he was the poster child for not getting it done during the 4 years of leaf losses. People criticize Lalime. His numbers were exceptional. We lost because we couldn't score. Heatley could score and we ended up in a final.

Chara. That's a hard one. That hurt.

Kopitar. I think if the only thing that changed was we got 15 years of Kopitar we'd have won a cup

Errr what about Alfie?

People forget Hossa was still very young. Not much older than tkatchuk now when he got traded. . I mean he was a kid in Those early playoff series against the leafs Even though he was a dominant two way forward and went on to play elite elite hockey for a long time.

Same with chara.

Havlat trade was bad, but with the cap they had to move someone. Could have done a lot better though.

Drafting in that period was certainly not great. The Lee over Kopitar pick is the major gaffe I think though. All the other ones add up, but that one is franchise changing.

The havlat trade was tolerable if you keep Hossa and chara. Two guys that could play elite hockey for another decade. Unfortunately heatley left. ( was was never gonna be a guy who could keep that level of play anyway. Redden fell off a cliff and that’s that.

 

[JD1]

Errr what about Alfie?

People forget Hossa was still very young. Not much older than tkatchuk now when he got traded. . I mean he was a kid in Those early playoff series against the leafs Even though he was a dominant two way forward and went on to play elite elite hockey for a long time.

Same with chara.


The havlat trade was tolerable if you keep Hossa and chara. Two guys that could play elite hockey for another decade. Unfortunately heatley left. ( was was never gonna be a guy who could keep that level of play anyway. Redden fell off a cliff and that’s that.

Hossa was more of a goal scorer in that era that Alfie.

But in the context of this thread, Hossa got moved, Alfie didn't. There were people not happy with him those days and guys like Don "chicken swede" Cherry probably didn't help.

Anyway, for me, I wasn't sad to see Hossa go.

 

[Laphroaig]

The claim is often made that we chose Redden over Chara. That never happened. Both players were offered identical contracts. Redden accepted and Chara chose to move to a team where he could be the captain.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

I didn't mind Hossa for Heater. Heatley gave us back to back 50 goal seasons and then a 42 goal season. Those three years were the window; we should've gotten something done.

Redden over Chara was a major miss but who could've foreseen Redden's fast decline.

For me, it all comes down to Hasek. If not for the 2006 Olympics, Hasek would've been playing for us in the 06 playoffs and we had the team to go all the way. Then, hopefully we keep him and repeat in 07. That should've been our story.... but it didn't happen.

 

[Xspyrit]

In hindsight, the options were better when Lee was taken than when Boucher was taken. Kopitar versus Sillinger - big difference.

There was many other choices than Sillinger. People always look at the next pick as it was the obvious option but there’s more

 

[Tuna99]

How about trading Heatley for peanuts, trading Spezza for nothing or not even knowing they were about to Lose Alfie and then coming out with notes on a napkin to press conference to prove you lost the heart and soul of your team.
Or singing Greening, Cowen, Weircoche all these crappy players to big extensions.

We suck not because this franchise made trades Hossa for Heatkey we suck from many many many bad moves over the course of years and years.

But if you fans think Hasek or Hossa woulda saved this thing - you’re wrong

Chara
Heatley
Alfie
Soezza
kalrsson
Duchene

They all wanted out. During the Muckler years they all wanted to stay. Figure it out

 

[BoardsofCanada]

How about trading Heatley for peanuts, trading Spezza for nothing or not even knowing they were about to Lose Alfie and then coming out with notes on a napkin to press conference to prove you lost the heart and soul of your team.
Or singing Greening, Cowen, Weircoche all these crappy players to big extensions.

We suck not because this franchise made trades Hossa for Heatkey we suck from many many many bad moves over the course of years and years.

But if you fans think Hasek or Hossa woulda saved this thing - you’re wrong

Chara
Heatley
Alfie
Soezza
kalrsson
Duchene

They all wanted out. During the Muckler years they all wanted to stay. Figure it out

They wanted out because the team's window was closing or in the case of Karlsson and Duchene, had closed. They were all on the back half of their careers and wanted to jump ship to chase a Cup elsewhere.

The guy has been dead for two years and you still want to burn him at the stake. Me thinks you have anger issues.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Chara
Heatley
Alfie
Soezza
kalrsson
Duchene
They all wanted out. During the Muckler years they all wanted to stay. Figure it out

I figured it out, Chara left during the Muckler years, and left because Muckler traded Hossa, right after signing him to a new deal.

 

[Tuna99]

I figured it out, Chara left during the Muckler years, and left because Muckler traded Hossa, right after signing him to a new deal.

The truth is when Hossa was traded he said he did not want to leave. Havlat same. Ottawa used to be a model franchise and everyone was happy here. That changed massively when two Captains, the All Stars, every wanted out.

And credit to Chara he played out his contract and honoured it and went to FA and wanted to be the Captain of a NHL a team. the rest besides Alfie did not honour their contracts, and wanted out. Asked for trades. Never happened when Muckler was in charge AND Muckler knew Chara was leaving - Murray had no idea Alfie was leaving - even Alfie’s agent said the Sens didn’t treat Alfie at all like a FA and they blew the negotiations.

If Chara had it his way he would of taken the C from a Alfie and beeen named Captain, no way the Sens do that

They wanted out because the team's window was closing or in the case of Karlsson and Duchene, had closed. They were all on the back half of their careers and wanted to jump ship to chase a Cup elsewhere.

The guy has been dead for two years and you still want to burn him at the stake. Me thinks you have anger issues.

This is a discussions about the past on a chat board talking about the year 2005 - if you don’t like speaking of the dead get yourself into the game day thread where you’ll be more comfortable

 

[Golden_Jet]

The truth is when Hossa was traded he said he did not want to leave. Havlat same. Ottawa used to be a model franchise and everyone was happy here. That changed massively when two Captains, the All Stars, every wanted out.

And credit to Chara he played out his contract and honoured it and went to FA and wanted to be the Captain of a NHL a team. the rest besides Alfie did not honour their contracts, and wanted out. Asked for trades. Never happened when Muckler was in charge AND Muckler knew Chara was leaving - Murray had no idea Alfie was leaving - even Alfie’s agent said the Sens didn’t treat Alfie at all like a FA and they blew the negotiations.

If Chara had it his way he would of taken the C from a Alfie and beeen named Captain, no way the Sens do that



This is a discussions about the past on a chat board talking about the year 2005 - if you don’t like speaking of the dead get yourself into the game day thread where you’ll be more comfortable

I was just proving you were wrong, with some facts about Muckler players, nothing more.

 

[Tuna99]

I was just proving you were wrong, with some facts about Muckler players, nothing more.

Chara didn’t ask to leave. You’re not proving anything. He was a FA and chose to leave so not sure what you mean.

1 player wanting out is one thing. 2 Captaisn, you’re top scorers, the guys you just traded for, not being able to hire experienced executives, coaches every season, becoming the laughing stock of the NHL, signing AHL players tommylti year multi million Diallo contracts never happened under Muckler. all happened under Murray and Dorion’s watch.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Chara didn’t ask to leave. You’re not proving anything. He was a FA and chose to leave so not sure what you mean.

1 player wanting out is one thing. 2 Captaisn, you’re top scorers, the guys you just traded for, not being able to hire experienced executives, coaches every season, becoming the laughing stock of the NHL, signing AHL players tommylti year multi million Diallo contracts never happened under Muckler. all happened under Murray and Dorion’s watch.

Chara was offered a contract, Hossa GOT a contract from Muckler, and yes the Sens were the first team to have cap casualties, so yes you were wrong, but I do give credit, at least the posts fit the thread title of an “alternate reality “.

 

[Tuna99]

Chara was offered a contract, Hossa GOT a contract from Muckler, and yes the Sens were the first team to have cap casualties, so yes you were wrong, but I do give credit, at least the posts fit the thread title of an “alternate reality “.

In your world Muckler is a can’t win - he trades Chara and you’d be here saying they traded Chara during their Cup window and Muckler is an idiot - Muckler keeps Chara for a serious Cup run and falls short and you roast him.


Muckler was fired because he wouldn’t be a yes man to Melnyck. Murray cones in and starts calling him ‘Mr. Melnyck’ and saying all these nice things about the guy

Dorion and Murrau survived by being yes men - that’s by when Ottawa announced they were looking for a team President we had articles printed that experienced execs wouldn’t even return Melnyck’s calls because they didn’t want to be yes men.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Mlaker fired Muckler as his final straw was he got Saprykin and not Roberts.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

The truth is when Hossa was traded he said he did not want to leave. Havlat same. Ottawa used to be a model franchise and everyone was happy here. That changed massively when two Captains, the All Stars, every wanted out.

Ottawa Senators Greatest Players: #15 Martin Havlat

We've arrived at the top 15 greatest Ottawa Senators of all-time. Today we look at one of the most talented players in Sens history, Martin Havlat.

senshot.com

Havlat left Ottawa following the 2006 season in a trade. He told management that he would only sign a one year contract as he wanted to test free agency the next season. As a result he was traded to the Blackhawks.

 

[Dionysus]

In your world Muckler is a can’t win - he trades Chara and you’d be here saying they traded Chara during their Cup window and Muckler is an idiot - Muckler keeps Chara for a serious Cup run and falls short and you roast him.


Muckler was fired because he wouldn’t be a yes man to Melnyck. Murray cones in and starts calling him ‘Mr. Melnyck’ and saying all these nice things about the guy

Dorion and Murrau survived by being yes men - that’s by when Ottawa announced they were looking for a team President we had articles printed that experienced execs wouldn’t even return Melnyck’s calls because they didn’t want to be yes men.

No disputing Melnyk sucked as an owner and damaged the Sens ability to ice a competitive team. I am more interested in the "What if" of a couple player personnel and a draft decision that could have drastically altered the course of franchise history.

Hard to separate front-wheel reality of a steady decline under Melnyk's watch no doubt.

Hopefully new management can make the right player personnel decisions. Both in making trades, and not making them. Sometimes ill-advised swings and misses and reactive trades can cause more damage.

 

[thinkwild]

I dont think Murray was hired to be a Yes man. He was said to have often nobly tried to keep Melnyk at bay. Muckler inherited a team that was ready and needed to make bold moves to win. But he tinkered and dithered. Murray was always willing to trade 1st's to get pieces.

But the salary cap for sure decimated us. All the decisions from Hossa, to Havlat to Chara to Spezza were forced on us by the salary cap. I think all those moves were good cap management given reality.

I think in Ottawa we will have to be prepared to make bold decisions to tear down and rebuild when the odds become long. Melnyk when he first came, backloaded a lot of con tracts to give us a chance. But then when the cap realities caught up we have to be willing to make painful rebuilds and not try and trick fans into buying tickets by pretending we are still trying. I think Ottawa fans will largely accept the rebuild logic eventually if sold right. The salary cap forces this on us. No use fighting it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I might be mistaken, but I think the team on all fronts was furious with Hasek's refusal to play in the playoffs. Players went to him personally and pleaded with him to play, but he refused.

I don't think there was any reality where the players or the front office would have welcomed Hasek back.

Which really hammers home how little confidence the team had in Emery. You could feel it and see it.

 

[Cosmix]

Errr what about Alfie?

People forget Hossa was still very young. Not much older than tkatchuk now when he got traded. . I mean he was a kid in Those early playoff series against the leafs Even though he was a dominant two way forward and went on to play elite elite hockey for a long time.

Same with chara.


The havlat trade was tolerable if you keep Hossa and chara. Two guys that could play elite hockey for another decade. Unfortunately heatley left. ( was was never gonna be a guy who could keep that level of play anyway. Redden fell off a cliff and that’s that.

The Havlat trade was a total disaster; never tolerable. Surely they could have done better than what they got from Chicago.

 

[Tuna99]

Ottawa Senators Greatest Players: #15 Martin Havlat

We've arrived at the top 15 greatest Ottawa Senators of all-time. Today we look at one of the most talented players in Sens history, Martin Havlat.

senshot.com

Havlat left Ottawa following the 2006 season in a trade. He told management that he would only sign a one year contract as he wanted to test free agency the next season. As a result he was traded to the Blackhawks.

Actually the Rangers called Muckler and gave him a heads up they were going to offer sheet Havlat in a couple of days so Muckler traded him out of the conference

Mlaker fired Muckler as his final straw was he got Saprykin and not Roberts.

Than Melnyck fired Mlaker to cover up for his own shortcomings as an owner

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

View attachment 843591

I dont think Murray was hired to be a Yes man. He was said to have often nobly tried to keep Melnyk at bay. Muckler inherited a team that was ready and needed to make bold moves to win. But he tinkered and dithered. Murray was always willing to trade 1st's to get pieces.

But the salary cap for sure decimated us. All the decisions from Hossa, to Havlat to Chara to Spezza were forced on us by the salary cap. I think all those moves were good cap management given reality.

I think in Ottawa we will have to be prepared to make bold decisions to tear down and rebuild when the odds become long. Melnyk when he first came, backloaded a lot of con tracts to give us a chance. But then when the cap realities caught up we have to be willing to make painful rebuilds and not try and trick fans into buying tickets by pretending we are still trying. I think Ottawa fans will largely accept the rebuild logic eventually if sold right. The salary cap forces this on us. No use fighting it.

Easier said than done sometimes though. This latest rebuild just tossed season 6 in a row that was deserving of being in the trash can. That's almost 20% of the teams entire history tossed for one rebuild. Season 7 TBD.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Than Melnyck fired Mlaker to cover up for his own shortcomings as an owner

Mlaker was fired 2 years after Muckler.