etherialone
dialed in your mom
I am happy that we decided to announce before the weekend instead of early next week as had been rumored.
Confirmed with Link: 2 year deal ($1.075 million AAV): Kyle Clifford
- Thread starter DaAnimal
- Start date
Dean sure does love Darryl. Dean is giving Suter the talent where he can just sit back let the players fight it out and he just parks and rides watching thinks play out. I mean plug and play the roster and put the best players out there. Not rocket science here... am I right?
etherialone
dialed in your mom
Thanks a lot my friend! Much appreciated.
Count me as another fan of your work JL.
Big ups!
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
McSorley 33
Registered User
Herb,
I know you're a smart guy and one of the more knowledgable posters on HF so I'll make my argument brief. What's wrong with having a bottom six filled with Simmond type players?
If we were building a soccer team than yes finesse and skill all the way, but were not the GM of the Galaxy.
I know you hate fighting in hockey and you hated Westgarth on the team, so I get your POV.
Clifford and Andy should be able to score too, carcillo I understand. Nolan has his place as your hated tough guy but he can play the game and keep up with others.
I just don't agree about rolling four skill lines in hockey without adding some smash and bash.
On being a DL type team, most of our roster and drafted players play tough. I'm to lazy to list all the names but its obvious to the league that we want to be a big team who will hit you every chance we get. We drafted Frattin because he has skill and hits like a truck.
gtwyc
FlyingHeadButts4All
i agree with you 100%.
also we traded for frattin we didnt draft him, but im pretty sure you know that probably just a brain fart
McSorley 33
Registered User
Herby
Now I can die in peace
Nothing wrong with a bottom six full of Simmonds type players, the problem is none of the guys you listed are anywhere close to Wayne Simmonds. Nolan and Clifford were awful last season, neither one had any business in the lineup in the playoffs. Carcillo couldn't even crack Chicago's lineup and AA is a rookie. When any of those guys become 1/4 the player Wayne Simmonds is then we can talk.
I am not saying we should have zero toughness, if you remember in the other thread I was happy to see Carcillo brought in because Clifford and Nolan in addition to doing nothing in the hockey department, also let Chicago push around and bully some of our best players. What I have a problem with is saying...
"Wouldn't it be great to have AA, Clifford and Nolan on the 4th line and Carcillo on another line"
Sorry but we were exposed by a better and deeper team in the WCF, we went three playoff rounds without getting a goal from the bottom six, the answer is improving the skill and production, not trying to turn into the Johnstown Chiefs.
Clifford and Carcillo should be competing for the 4th line LW job and whoever does that job better should play, both of them in the lineup regularly and on different lines weakens the team.
I think an occasional fight in the heat of the moment is fine, what I hate is staged fighting, and yes guys like Westgarth are stupid and thankfully being phased out. I for the life of me don't understand the cult following among fight fans, especially when it comes to junior hockey, seems odd to me people who enjoy watching high school aged kids engage in bare knuckle fighting.
I once had high hopes for Clifford, but he was awful in the playoffs last year and really hasn't progressed at all since his rookie year. I think being moved up lines made him softer. Clifford, Nolan and Carcillo should all be competing for 1 regular spot and one press box spot, no way should all three be regularly playing. I don't know if you guys saw Carcillo play last year, I saw him plenty, he was terrible. And he was brought in strictly because Clifford and Nolan failed miserably to set any kind of physical tone in any of the series.
I have no problem with Clifford, Nolan or Carcillo playing on the 4th line.
You want to roll one line of all tougher players with limited hockey ability, and then on top of that you want Carcillo "playing on another line", I just have a hard time seeing how that is going to help the Kings beat Chicago next season.
There is a difference between being a physical team and being a goon squad. Once again, look at our 2012 team. That is the kind of team the Kings should be trying to build. A physical hard hitting team that also got contributions from all four lines. What we had last year in the playoffs was Nolan and Fraser looking like shells of their 2012 season and Clifford out there floating around thinking he is a scoring line player.
Roxo
Registered User
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Meant to post this piece on Clifford in this thread (posted it in the NHL.com season preview discussion).
I realize there are some fans who hate seeing a lineup with a guy like Clifford, or dare I mention him, Dwight King, penciled into a top six role, but after seeing the success the Hawks had with Bickell in a top six role, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings try to do the same with Clifford.
As of this time, I do not believe Clifford or King are viable top six options, but given the fact that they may slowly ease Toffoli in to that role, or if they desire a lineup where their offense is spread through three lines, it could be something this coaching staff may consider.
Similar to Clifford, Bickell was also a 2nd round pick and was a bit of a late bloomer, finding his offensive game in his overage year in the OHL. He didn't produce mind blowing numbers in the AHL, but he posted respectable numbers, and earned a full time role in the 2010-11 season at the age of 24. He posted 17 goals and 37 points that year in 78 games. The following year he struggled and only netted 9 goals and 24 points in 71 games. He bounced back this season by producing similar numbers in 48 games with 9 goals and 23 points and had a monster performance in the playoffs with 9 goals and 17 points in 23 games.
I don't think anyone was calling Bickell a top six forward prior to the start of this season. In fact, he started the season on a checking line with Andrew Shaw and Viktor Stalberg. So he's a prime example of a player growing his game as he matures and gains years of experience in the pros, and mind you, this guy spent three seasons in the AHL after completing four seasons in the OHL. He was in his mid-late 20s when he hit his stride.
Now look at Clifford who is only 22! Scored 7 goals as a 19 year old rookie, followed it up with 5 goals his sophomore year where he looked stagnant, and in his third season he matched his career high of 7 goals and 14 points in a 48 game season. And he spent three seasons in the OHL with a brief stop in the minors. He was rushed to the NHL, but he is slowly progressing and can still become a better player. There is plenty of potential and room for growth for Clifford and I think he will prove that in the long run. I'm not sold on him as a legitimate top six option at LW, but I think he can be more than just a tough winger who gets fourth line minutes.
I realize there are some fans who hate seeing a lineup with a guy like Clifford, or dare I mention him, Dwight King, penciled into a top six role, but after seeing the success the Hawks had with Bickell in a top six role, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings try to do the same with Clifford.
As of this time, I do not believe Clifford or King are viable top six options, but given the fact that they may slowly ease Toffoli in to that role, or if they desire a lineup where their offense is spread through three lines, it could be something this coaching staff may consider.
Similar to Clifford, Bickell was also a 2nd round pick and was a bit of a late bloomer, finding his offensive game in his overage year in the OHL. He didn't produce mind blowing numbers in the AHL, but he posted respectable numbers, and earned a full time role in the 2010-11 season at the age of 24. He posted 17 goals and 37 points that year in 78 games. The following year he struggled and only netted 9 goals and 24 points in 71 games. He bounced back this season by producing similar numbers in 48 games with 9 goals and 23 points and had a monster performance in the playoffs with 9 goals and 17 points in 23 games.
I don't think anyone was calling Bickell a top six forward prior to the start of this season. In fact, he started the season on a checking line with Andrew Shaw and Viktor Stalberg. So he's a prime example of a player growing his game as he matures and gains years of experience in the pros, and mind you, this guy spent three seasons in the AHL after completing four seasons in the OHL. He was in his mid-late 20s when he hit his stride.
Now look at Clifford who is only 22! Scored 7 goals as a 19 year old rookie, followed it up with 5 goals his sophomore year where he looked stagnant, and in his third season he matched his career high of 7 goals and 14 points in a 48 game season. And he spent three seasons in the OHL with a brief stop in the minors. He was rushed to the NHL, but he is slowly progressing and can still become a better player. There is plenty of potential and room for growth for Clifford and I think he will prove that in the long run. I'm not sold on him as a legitimate top six option at LW, but I think he can be more than just a tough winger who gets fourth line minutes.
damacles1156
Registered User
- Feb 5, 2010
- 21,665
- 1,303
Its just another case of people expecting way too much out of young players.
Not everyone is Kopitar or Drew, those guys are special.
Clifford and King are not top six players, everyone knows that. But when you have so very little options as a Coach roster wise you have to do something.
Should be a good year for both guys coming up, they will be playing for their Jobs.
A good and well-founded post, but... .
I like Clifford a lot, but there is one big problem - concussions. Therefore I didn't mind if they trade him and get back a tough young right shooting d-man like Dylan McIlrath or big young shutdown centre like Justin Kea, because we don't have that kind player our system.
And when I said big, I mean that player is at least 6-2, 210. All our center prospects are average sized and we don't have any prospects, who can replace Matt Greene.
Zad
Registered User
Since you maniacs are discussing Clifford, I have a relevant article. Yes, I wrote it, you wanna fight?
Read more here. http://lakingsnews.com/2013/08/05/kyle-cliffords-identity-crisis/
Read more here. http://lakingsnews.com/2013/08/05/kyle-cliffords-identity-crisis/
The kings need to drop more players than Colin Fraser, they need to drop at least 3 players off the roster. Linden Vey, Andy Andreoff, and Brandon Kozun could make the kings next season. I don't think the kings should trade Clifford, he still has a chance to develop into a Ryan Clowe type power forward. Jordan Nolan hopefully will better than he was last year. The kings should be patient with their young players, you never Know when could trade a late bloomer like Johan Franzen.
Scottkmlps
Registered User
Dean has always been patient with young players. That was the big difference between him and former Kings GM's. That's Lombardi's style. Build a core contender and replace with youngsters when the older, supporting players move on.
Right now though, the Kings have the luxury of dealing a youngster or two because of that Lombardi mentality of holding and developing young players.
