2 big trades to change the "D"

[rokkinman139]

The way Morin plays defense reminds me more of Chara than Coburn. Not saying he's on that level, just that style. He's never out of the play with his size/reach advantage.

I think Gostisbehere projects to be more of a Streit type player than Kimmo. I think out of the 3, the closest to Timonen would be Hagg.

And as far as maximum potential, I think both Morin and Hagg could be top pairing guys. They both have all the tools, and the IQ. They certainly have their issues, though, and it's a bit of a reach that either one will turn into the true, stud #1 d-man we need, but drafting and developing d-men is a crapshoot. It's unfair to expect that level of play from them, but I think it's also unfair to completely dismiss their potential already, too. It's only been a few months since the draft, and the Flyers don't seem to want to hurry either one of them. Who knows what we'll be looking at in 5 years time.

Very true, but as it stands now that's what they look to be in the future. Maybe the years of just not letting prospects develop has soured me on the ones we have now. I think they'll all be NHLers at some point in time, I just don't think that any of them will be "the answer"

 

[Psuhockey]

Very true, but as it stands now that's what they look to be in the future. Maybe the years of just not letting prospects develop has soured me on the ones we have now. I think they'll all be NHLers at some point in time, I just don't think that any of them will be "the answer"

I really think the flyers will make a push to acquire Ekblad. The draft is in philly, they need a right handed defensemen, he has the size they love, and I think the Flyers know now that to acquire a #1 defenseman it will have to be in the draft.

 

[FLYERSFAN18]

I really think the flyers will make a push to acquire Ekblad. The draft is in philly, they need a right handed defensemen, he has the size they love, and I think the Flyers know now that to acquire a #1 defenseman it will have to be in the draft.

How do you think they do that? I would assume it would end up gutting the team

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

How do you think they do that? I would assume it would end up gutting the team

If they really wanted to, I think they could get the pick without fully destroying the team. It'd surely weaken the forward depth, but it would really depend on who was drafting in the spot.

Maybe I'm way off base, but I could see a team like Edmonton trading their pick for something around Flyers 1st, Coburn, Simmonds and a higher prospect. It would surely be a rough trade to make, but if you have that much faith in Ekblad, you think he'd step in for Coburn. Maybe I'm crazy in thinking Edmonton would rather get guys who are worth their salt in the NHL over risking a pick on another kid who may not pan out.

I dunno if I'd make the necessary trade, but that move wouldn't "gut" the team per se.

 

[Prongo]

I honestly think if we are not in the top 5 drafting, we literally have 0% chance of getting Ekblad.

I would rather just target Haydn Fleury instead. He is a lefty, but man is he a big time prospect. He is hoovering right around the top 10, if the Flyers could make a jump up to say 14th-16th if he is still there it would be a steal. That wouldn't cost nearly as much also, our 1st+2nd rounder probably if we are in the 20-22 region. Maybe a little more.

 

[Psuhockey]

How do you think they do that? I would assume it would end up gutting the team

The only team I think would be interested in moving the pick would be Edmonton. The flyers will probably be picking in the mid to high teens. I think Coburn, Simmonds,and the 1st would definitely get it done although I would suspect the flyers would much rather package the Schenns. It's a steep price and I don't agree with it because picking defensemen is way too much of a crap shoot. I would rather the flyers target McKeown or Glover or even just pick defensemen in bulk after the 1st but I do think the flyers will try to make a splash this draft.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Maybe I'm way off base, but I could see a team like Edmonton trading their pick for something around Flyers 1st, Coburn, Simmonds and a higher prospect. It would surely be a rough trade to make, but if you have that much faith in Ekblad, you think he'd step in for Coburn. Maybe I'm crazy in thinking Edmonton would rather get guys who are worth their salt in the NHL over risking a pick on another kid who may not pan out.

I dunno if I'd make the necessary trade, but that move wouldn't "gut" the team per se.

I'm passing on that trade, counting on an 18 year old to replace your biggest minute eater on defense is a good way to ensure yourself of picking high in the next draft.

We've seen it happening with Seth Jones recently who's fallen back down to earth after a hot start.

I know this is a prospects board & prospects > NHL players but if there's a draft to trade your first rounder in its this one because it's not a very good one. The top end isn't even really that good let alone the depth. Honestly landing the #1 pick isn't very enticing in my opinion because neither Ekblad or Reinhart excite me.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

I'm passing on that trade, counting on an 18 year old to replace your biggest minute eater on defense is a good way to ensure yourself of picking high in the next draft.

We've seen it happening with Seth Jones recently who's fallen back down to earth after a hot start.

I know this is a prospects board & prospects > NHL players but if there's a draft to trade your first rounder in its this one because it's not a very good one. The top end isn't even really that good let alone the depth. Honestly landing the #1 pick isn't very enticing in my opinion because neither Ekblad or Reinhart excite me.

Oh don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you. I wouldn't make the trade either. I'm just saying it'd hurt the team but not totally gut it of a bunch of players.

 

[FlyTimmo]

I'm passing on that trade, counting on an 18 year old to replace your biggest minute eater on defense is a good way to ensure yourself of picking high in the next draft.

We've seen it happening with Seth Jones recently who's fallen back down to earth after a hot start.

I know this is a prospects board & prospects > NHL players but if there's a draft to trade your first rounder in its this one because it's not a very good one. The top end isn't even really that good let alone the depth. Honestly landing the #1 pick isn't very enticing in my opinion because neither Ekblad or Reinhart excite me.

Well, hey getting a high pick in 2015 does not sound too bad.

I would not mind trading the Schenn's and Coburn and maybe something else for Ekblad.

I don't care for Reinhart but, Ekblad looks like a beast. But, I am curious, where do you think Ekblad would have gone in the 2013 draft, assuming he was playing at his currently level?

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

Well, hey getting a high pick in 2015 does not sound too bad.

I would not mind trading the Schenn's and Coburn and maybe something else for Ekblad.

I don't care for Reinhart but, Ekblad looks like a beast. But, I am curious, where do you think Ekblad would have gone in the 2013 draft, assuming he was playing at his currently level?

Everything I've seen has people still ranking him below Seth Jones.

 

[JDinkalage Morgoone]

wrong thread.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm passing on that trade, counting on an 18 year old to replace your biggest minute eater on defense is a good way to ensure yourself of picking high in the next draft.

We've seen it happening with Seth Jones recently who's fallen back down to earth after a hot start.

I know this is a prospects board & prospects > NHL players but if there's a draft to trade your first rounder in its this one because it's not a very good one. The top end isn't even really that good let alone the dept

Again, I am of the opinion that the flyers should not trade up but they would not necessarily be replacing Coburn with a rookie. There are decent UFAs on the level of Coburn just not any higher. If the flyers acquired a guy like Andrew MacDonald much in the same way they did Streit before the draft, it would give them flexibility to move one of their defensemen. Coburn would not be my choice to move but more than likely required to get the deal done. If the Flyers feel that Ekblad is eventually the 1st pair right handed defenseman for the next 10 plus years, it would be worth it take a chance. Taking some chances is the only way this defense is going to get championship calibre in a hurry.

 

[FlyTimmo]

Everything I've seen has people still ranking him below Seth Jones.

I think Seth Jones would have been a more NHL ready prospect, but I believe both have equal upside.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Again, I am of the opinion that the flyers should not trade up but they would not necessarily be replacing Coburn with a rookie. There are decent UFAs on the level of Coburn just not any higher. If the flyers acquired a guy like Andrew MacDonald much in the same way they did Streit before the draft, it would give them flexibility to move one of their defensemen. Coburn would not be my choice to move but more than likely required to get the deal done. If the Flyers feel that Ekblad is eventually the 1st pair right handed defenseman for the next 10 plus years, it would be worth it take a chance. Taking some chances is the only way this defense is going to get championship calibre in a hurry.

I disagree, the only guy I feel like who could replace Coburn is Girardi but like most top free agents you'd be overpaying for him to the point to where it's not really worth it when you have Coburn already in the fold.

I truly believe this will be Timonen's last year. I think the shortened season last year & the Olympics this year were big factors in him giving it one more go around when most assumed he would be hanging them up.

While Timonen had a rough start to the year & isn't the same player he used be he's still a quality defensemen who logs some minutes for us. Between the of them they're logging 23 (Coburn) & 21 (Timonen) minutes currently good for 1st & 3rd on the team in ice time.

I'm not necessarily comfortable filling in those guys roles with a free agent & an 18 year old although with Timonen we probably will have no choice but to do so.

 

[Curufinwe]

Giradi isn't the skater Coburn is and will want a 7 year deal, so I would rather keep Coburn and sign Markov or Boyle to a 2 year deal to replace Kimmo. That will buy us time while the prospects develop.

 

[dookie88]

Well, hey getting a high pick in 2015 does not sound too bad.

I would not mind trading the Schenn's and Coburn and maybe something else for Ekblad.

I don't care for Reinhart but, Ekblad looks like a beast. But, I am curious, where do you think Ekblad would have gone in the 2013 draft, assuming he was playing at his currently level?

If that's the package required, why not just flip it for Weber?

Same with the speculated Coburn, Simmonds + pick package.
You could get such a good and proven NHL defender for this, it's not worth even considering moving this for Ekblad.

 

[dookie88]

Giradi isn't the skater Coburn is and will want a 7 year deal, so I would rather keep Coburn and sign Markov or Boyle to a 2 year deal to replace Kimmo. That will buy us time while the prospects develop.

Am a big Dan Boyle fan. But I'm not sure it's too late for him.
He's going to have a lot of mileage after this season, since I believe in San Jose coming out of the West this year.

 

[Curufinwe]

You might be right. Obviously if he is injured or looks slow at the end of this season I would stay away.

 

[dookie88]

You might be right. Obviously if he is injured or looks slow at the end of this season I would stay away.

Well he's already looking slow, so there's that.
The problem is some stupid team is going to give him two years. I'd be fine with a one year deal.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Well, hey getting a high pick in 2015 does not sound too bad.

It's not necasarily but it's also not full-proof neither & it's a moot point because this organization doesn't operate that way anyway.

I don't care for Reinhart but, Ekblad looks like a beast. But, I am curious, where do you think Ekblad would have gone in the 2013 draft, assuming he was playing at his currently level?

I still think he would have went in the top 10 but he would have been in the second tier of defensemen with Ristolanien & Nurse IMO. I just don't think he's on Jones level nor will he ever be but that's not to say he'll be bad though because many were saying during Jones' draft year that he was one of the best defensive prospects in years. While Ekblad wasn't bad this WJC he paled in comparison to Jones' when he played in it two years ago where he was one the best players in tournament where the overall talent pool was much better than most in recent years. Jones probably would have taken home the best defensemen award if it wasn't for his teammate Jacob Trouba.

Even dating back to when he first arrived in the OHL he looked like the neighborhood beer runner. He's basically been the same size as his is now when he first broke into the league (a large reason as to why he was granted the exceptional status). I don't think there's much room for him to grow & mature, there's a chance he already may have topped out.

I also don't think he's a shoe in for the NHL next year & if he does it won't be because of his skill set but more of because he'll actually need to be challenged with fully grown men & not kids in juniors. I wouldn't expect much from him that year neither as it's going to be a lot of growing pains.

I still think he'll be a good defensemen in this league but I'm just not convinced he'll be a #1 & find him to be a pretty overrrated prospects mostly because of the hype people try to surround him with.

 

[Tripod]

If I am packaging those types of guys, it is for an established guy, not a 18 year old kid who won't be as good as Coburn for another 3 years.

 

[King Forsberg]

If I am packaging those types of guys, it is for an established guy, not a 18 year old kid who won't be as good as Coburn for another 3 years.

I'm with you on this one. If we're making a big trade for a top defenseman it has to be someone that's youngish but established. We need a defenseman who is in his prime or soon to be there. I wouldn't mind making a play for Ekblad but I'd offer picks and prospects and maybe someone like Simmonds. Trading players like Coburn for an 18 year old seems like a backwards move even though we might "win" the trade in the long term.

 

[ilovetheflyers8]

If they really wanted to, I think they could get the pick without fully destroying the team. It'd surely weaken the forward depth, but it would really depend on who was drafting in the spot.

Maybe I'm way off base, but I could see a team like Edmonton trading their pick for something around Flyers 1st, Coburn, Simmonds and a higher prospect. It would surely be a rough trade to make, but if you have that much faith in Ekblad, you think he'd step in for Coburn. Maybe I'm crazy in thinking Edmonton would rather get guys who are worth their salt in the NHL over risking a pick on another kid who may not pan out.

I dunno if I'd make the necessary trade, but that move wouldn't "gut" the team per se.

I think if Edmonton had a chance to take Ekblad they would likely do it rather than trading that chance away. That is unless along with Coburn edit- and a top pick the team also gives Morin or Haag. Perhaps I'm overvaluing Ekblad, but it appears people think he is a generational talent. That term is probably thrown around too much but the fact that he is one of those guys that got a draft exception makes me think it is likely he will be pretty good. Coburn is good but he isn't the top pairing guy Edmonton probably wants, and is also 28 going on 29. That isn't old, but if all goes well Coburn may have six or seven more good years left (of course he could have more but I feel that is less likely). While with Ekblad, if he is projected to be an all around number one defenseman they could get him and have him for his entire career. Of course it might take a few years for him to reach his full potential, if he ever does, while Coburn is already there. If Morin or maybe Haag was thrown in though, the Oilers would have piece of mind that they were probably getting a pretty good defenseman for the future as well as right now.

edit- After seeing King Forsberg and Tripod's post above, I want to add I'm relatively okay with waiting and hoping that Haag, Morin, and Gostisbehere (and to a lesser extent Vasilyev) turn out to be good defenseman who can play in the NHL. Hopefully we only have to wait 2 more years for one or two of them to make the NHL, though it is unlikely they will all be good enough to play at the top level.

 

[Psuhockey]

I'm with you on this one. If we're making a big trade for a top defenseman it has to be someone that's youngish but established.

The problem is that guy isn't available. No contending team is going to give up an established young defenseman and hurt their chances at the cup and most of the non contending teams need defense help, which is one of the reasons they are not contending. Nashville and Phoenix are two teams that might trade defense for offense but not their top guys. And judging from what Maloney asked for Yandle before, the flyers will have to pay premium prices for 2nd tier guys.

The Coburn/Simmonds package is a little steep, but I would definitely consider a Schenn and Schenn package. Ekblad doesn't have to be this mythical number 1 defensemen. It is a matter of chemistry with what the Flyers have in their system already. I view it like Keith and Seabrook, who are two guys that are great together but wouldn't necessarily be as good with someone else. Even Weber and Suter struggled at the beginning of last year when they were apart, Especially Suter until he was paired with Brodin. Is an Ekblad Gostisbehere or Ekblad Hagg pair like a Keith/ Seabrook combo? That being said, a McKeown Hagg pair might be just as good and wouldn't require a trade up.

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

The problem is that guy isn't available. No contending team is going to give up an established young defenseman and hurt their chances at the cup and most of the non contending teams need defense help, which is one of the reasons they are not contending. Nashville and Phoenix are two teams that might trade defense for offense but not their top guys. And judging from what Maloney asked for Yandle before, the flyers will have to pay premium prices for 2nd tier guys.

The Coburn/Simmonds package is a little steep, but I would definitely consider a Schenn and Schenn package. Ekblad doesn't have to be this mythical number 1 defensemen. It is a matter of chemistry with what the Flyers have in their system already. I view it like Keith and Seabrook, who are two guys that are great together but wouldn't necessarily be as good with someone else. Even Weber and Suter struggled at the beginning of last year when they were apart, Especially Suter until he was paired with Brodin. Is an Ekblad Gostisbehere or Ekblad Hagg pair like a Keith/ Seabrook combo? That being said, a McKeown Hagg pair might be just as good and wouldn't require a trade up.

Hit it right on the head -> nobody is going to give up a young and established defenseman for a package of Coburn, Simmonds and draft picks. It's just not happening. Holmgren and company realize that you aren't acquiring a team's number one defenseman anymore - you have to develop them.

I'm more than comfortable with the guys who are currently in the system. Morin's offensive game has improved by leaps and bounds this year. Gostisbehere has taken his game to another level. Hagg is getting great experience playing in the SEL (even if it's only 14 to 16 minutes per night). Alt is getting 20+ minutes a night in Adirondack. If the Flyers can add a Haydn Fleury or a Jack Glover or a Roland McKeown to the pipeline, that's even better.

I know there's a big man crush to land Ekblad, but it's not going to happen. The days of selling the farm to move up a couple of spaces to land a potential player are done. Just keep on the status quo and just draft and develop. That's the only way this franchise is going to get things done.