1rw

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Besides Steen's 30 goal season 2 seasons ago I don't think Oshie has had that true scoring threat. Both Steen and Backes score in about the 25 range, so there really isn't that threat who you have to double team like OV.

That's been true for most of Oshie's time with the Blues.

But I think you may be overlooking someone over the past 2 years.

 

[PB12]

That's been true for most of Oshie's time with the Blues.

But I think you may be overlooking someone over the past 2 years.

Who?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

That wasn't a point of contention. You asked about team success in judging these two players as individuals. That's certainly putting a team's failure on a player for the purpose of individual assessment.

Well team success is the ultimate goal right? I was simply pointing out the differences in their roles on their respective teams in the past and that Oshie's failure is of a higher level because he's a more skilled player, playing a more important role than Brouwer was. I just don't see how you seem to somehow praise Oshie by saying "Oshie has had more success, and more recent success."

To me, honestly they've both sucked. I'd prefer to see fans call it like it is rather than focus on the Brouwer hate and ignore Oshie's history.

keepin it real...

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I think we all feel that way no? Brower was simply a mediocre player in a mediocre role for that Chicago team. Oshie has also been on a fairly stacked Blues team too right? The expectation levels seem off.

The thing with the Blues is that they are stacked on paper. They're the kings of the regular season (no pun intended).

When the playoffs come around, there is always a huge roster hole for the Blues. Lately, it was their goalies. They tried solving it with Miller but it didn't work. Now, Allen/Elliott is a bit better but one of the two will be traded ultimately. Goalie tandems don't work, just like we saw with Luongo/Lack in Vancouver, or Halak/Price in Montreal.

Our roster is a lot more stable with Ovi/Nick/Holtby/Carlson leading the way. No competition for roster spots (except MJ vs Bura), an experienced coach and another great playoff performer that came along this summer.

Oshie is in a better position to succeed now than at any point in his career.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

That's been true for most of Oshie's time with the Blues.

But I think you may be overlooking someone over the past 2 years.

Tarasenko doesn't play on the same line, he had very little impact on Oshie at ES.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The thing with the Blues is that they are stacked on paper. They're the kings of the regular season (no pun intended).

When the playoffs come around, there is always a huge roster hole for the Blues. Lately, it was their goalies. They tried solving it with Miller but it didn't work. Now, Allen/Elliott is a bit better but one of the two will be traded ultimately. Goalie tandems don't work, just like we saw with Luongo/Lack in Vancouver, or Halak/Price in Montreal.

Our roster is a lot more stable with Ovi/Nick/Holtby/Carlson leading the way. No competition for roster spots (except MJ vs Bura), an experienced coach and another great playoff performer that came along this summer.

Oshie is in a better position to succeed now than at any point in his career.

Sounds like the Caps some years no? I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of the Blues roster. Don't follow them that closely, but it would be interesting for you to suggest that on the Blues boards and see the response.

I do agree Oshie is seemingly in a better position with better players (assuming he's with 8-19). It's really going to chap some assess around here if Williams gets that spot I guess.

 

[strungout]

It's really going to chap some assess around here if Williams gets that spot I guess.

I don't agree with that assessment.

I think most of us want Oshie there because he's a top line talent and the dynamic with 8 and 19 is quite the wet dream when it comes to those two needing that kinda RW to play with them.

If they slot Williams there...they'd be losing the sexy factor...but would be gaining the experience factor. Knuble-ish so to speak. And all that would do is help as well...and at the same time make the 2nd line just as interesting.

Either way...its good to have options.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Tarasenko doesn't play on the same line, he had very little impact on Oshie at ES.

He just takes the top defenders on and off the ice with him right? Is that very little impact? I'd say hell no.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't agree with that assessment.

I think most of us want Oshie there because he's a top line talent and the dynamic with 8 and 19 is quite the wet dream when it comes to those two needing that kinda RW to play with them.

If they slot Williams there...they'd be losing the sexy factor...but would be gaining the experience factor. Knuble-ish so to speak. And all that would do is help as well...and at the same time make the 2nd line just as interesting.

Either way...its good to have options.

Oh I think Trotz is going to get crapped on around here if Oshie goes to the 2nd line in anything other than a rotation between the 1st and 2nd. Just my hunch.

I love having the options. That unknown though is why I have my predicted Oshie production totals at around his normal pace and I'm not predicting some huge offensive output increase. I've made my hopes known, that JW is on largely on the 2nd to mentor Kuzy/Bura/Mojo....but if the top-6 is not producing...Trotz will start moving Beagle and Chimera up the lineup and others around...at least that's my hunch given his history.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Oh I think Trotz is going to get crapped on around here if Oshie goes to the 2nd line in anything other than a rotation between the 1st and 2nd. Just my hunch.

I love having the options. That unknown though is why I have my predicted Oshie production totals at around his normal pace and I'm not predicting some huge offensive output increase. I've made my hopes known, that JW is on largely on the 2nd to mentor Kuzy/Bura/Mojo....but if the top-6 is not producing...Trotz will start moving Beagle and Chimera up the lineup and others around...at least that's my hunch given his history.

I'd argue rather strongly that the two best fitting off-wings that Ovie has had were Clark and Knuble. Those two are a lot closer to Williams than Oshie.

Caveat is that we've never had a player like Oshie before so it's hard to say how he'll fit with Ovie/Backstrom.

 

[strungout]

I'd argue rather strongly that the two best fitting off-wings that Ovie has had were Clark and Knuble. Those two are a lot closer to Williams than Oshie.

Caveat is that we've never had a player like Oshie before so it's hard to say how he'll fit with Ovie/Backstrom.

That's what has me feeling all warm and fuzzy...

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'd argue rather strongly that the two best fitting off-wings that Ovie has had were Clark and Knuble. Those two are a lot closer to Williams than Oshie.

Caveat is that we've never had a player like Oshie before so it's hard to say how he'll fit with Ovie/Backstrom.

Maybe the two best fitting the Caps have been able to scrape together. I'd mention Kozlov as the third successful linemate. Clark and Knuble brought the jam to clean up the junk, but I'd prefer to see the greater skilled guys there myself. Gain the zone under control rather than dump and chase. I prefer a player who could finish AND make his linemates better rather than a pure jam finisher.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Kozlov sucked. He was basically just an older version of Johansson.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Kozlov sucked. He was basically just an older version of Johansson.

And yet Ovy has his two best years playing opposite Kozlov. That's enough for me to want to see a skilled guy opposite him rather than a goal crease cleanup guy who can't generate his own offense.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

And yet Ovy has his two best years playing opposite Kozlov. That's enough for me to want to see a skilled guy opposite him rather than a goal crease cleanup guy who can't generate his own offense.

If Williams can clean up garbage to the tune of 30 goals at 1RW and Oshie can play to his career norms or slightly better with Kuznetsov I consider that a big win win. And are you referring to WIlliams as someone who can't generate his own offense?

I think they both get their shot though.

 

[Hivemind]

I think people are setting the 1RW bar higher than any realistic expectation. A 70 point performance from Oshie or 30G performance from Williams isn't a reasonable expectation for either player in 2015/16, even if they see the whole season as 1RW and on PP1. Could it happen? Maybe, if we're really lucky. But I wouldn't count on it. I'd be very satisfied with a 20G/50P performance from either of them as 1RW/PP1 (maybe a few more points from Oshie).

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If Williams can clean up garbage to the tune of 30 goals at 1RW and Oshie can play to his career norms or slightly better with Kuznetsov I consider that a big win win. And are you referring to WIlliams as someone who can't generate his own offense?

I think they both get their shot though.

I'm referring to Clark and Knuble. William is aging and yeah, I feel it's at least risky to assume he's creating a ton on his own today. But, I've always been of the mindset that if Ovy ever gets a quality skilled sniper on his opposite wing he would have a hell of a year.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think people are setting the 1RW bar higher than any realistic expectation. A 70 point performance from Oshie or 30G performance from Williams isn't a reasonable expectation for either player in 2015/16, even if they see the whole season as 1RW and on PP1. Could it happen? Maybe, if we're really lucky. But I wouldn't count on it. I'd be very satisfied with a 20G/50P performance from either of them as 1RW/PP1 (maybe a few more points from Oshie).

I'm with you...these mile high production numbers being tossed around are just setting people up for disappointment.

I'd be content with 20/50 from JW. Oshie better hit 20-25/60.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Sounds like the Caps some years no? I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of the Blues roster. Don't follow them that closely, but it would be interesting for you to suggest that on the Blues boards and see the response.

I do agree Oshie is seemingly in a better position with better players (assuming he's with 8-19). It's really going to chap some assess around here if Williams gets that spot I guess.

The Blues fans themselves acknowledge that their team is a paper tiger, just like we acknowledged it a few times during the Ovi era.

He just takes the top defenders on and off the ice with him right? Is that very little impact? I'd say hell no.

Actually, Tarasenko's line is not the top line. The Blues top 6 was
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Lehtera/Stastny-Tarasenko

These two lines have roughly the same offensive output. Tarasenko usually draws the toughest matchup because he is the #1 individual threat, but he broke out only recently. Before that, the top line received all the attention.

Anyway, I'm sure Oshie will do fine with anyone on the top 6.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The Blues fans themselves acknowledge that their team is a paper tiger, just like we acknowledged it a few times during the Ovi era.



Actually, Tarasenko's line is not the top line. The Blues top 6 was
Steen-Backes-Oshie
Schwartz-Lehtera/Stastny-Tarasenko

These two lines have roughly the same offensive output. Tarasenko usually draws the toughest matchup because he is the #1 individual threat, but he broke out only recently. Before that, the top line received all the attention.

Anyway, I'm sure Oshie will do fine with anyone on the top 6.

I meant as in comparing them to us, as in is this suddenly such a great environment as compared to the Blues, that we should continue tossing out pie in the sky production numbers for Oshie to suddenly explode. I just don't see it. I guess that's why it's called faith. I myself am more of the logic/need to see it type. Oshie here WILL be getting the most defensive pressure by line assuming he's with 8-19.

Does Tarasenko typically draw the toughest D pairs and line coverage, if so my point stands.

Anyone else remember the last great offensive player we traded for? Opening night.. His first shift, he comes down with Oates and Bondra and the line scored so easily it was euphoria for Caps fans. Looked like we had an elite line to carry us deep in the playoffs! Who knew it was all downhill from there. Yeah I'm staying on the conservative side of expectations.

 

[Ajax1995]

Does Tarasenko typically draw the toughest D pairs and line coverage, if so my point stands.

I'm not sure if I am reading the stats correctly but I believe Oshie faced the highest QoC of any Blue's forward last season followed closely by Backes and everyone else was significantly lower.

 

[txpd]

If Williams can clean up garbage to the tune of 30 goals at 1RW and Oshie can play to his career norms or slightly better with Kuznetsov I consider that a big win win. And are you referring to WIlliams as someone who can't generate his own offense?

I think they both get their shot though.

Williams hasn't scored more than 22 goals since 2006-07.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Ovechkin can't create individually as consistently as he did back in the Knuble days, either.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

Williams hasn't scored more than 22 goals since 2006-07.

Have you watched a Kings game since 2006?

His goal scoring is going up on this team.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I'm not sure if I am reading the stats correctly but I believe Oshie faced the highest QoC of any Blue's forward last season followed closely by Backes and everyone else was significantly lower.

Given Tarasenko that would be surprising. I'll take your word for it.