1996-97 Philadelphia Flyers

[bob5150]

I've been reading through pages and pages of the History forum, and I am blown away by the abundance of knowledge and memories you guys have! It's been a blast reading through, and thinking "oh yeah, I remember that!" every other thread. Hopefully you guys don't mind reading my long-winded post.

I was born in 1987, and '96-97 was the first year I got into hockey. Living in Philadelphia, I became a Flyers fan, and it was a good year to be a Flyer fan (mostly).

I remember watching the Flyers have a very successful regular season, and beat up the Penguins, Sabres, and Rangers en route to winning the Eastern Conference.

This was before my house had internet, sportscenter, and 24-hour access to sports. I was very "unaware" of the wider NHL, beyond the Flyers and their main rivals (Pens, Devils, Rangers, ect). I had no idea that the Red Wings had been rising and becoming more dangerous the last few years, and didn't really realize how good the defending champion Avalanche were, and how good the Wings must have been to beat them.

In the few days leading up to the Finals, the Philadelphia papers and news anchors were all expecting a Flyer win, mostly in 5 or 6 games. The European-heavy Red Wings were no match for the brute force of the Legion of Doom and the big bad Flyers. Having seen the Flyers lose just 3 games in 3 rounds, I was inclined to agree.

Of course, the series was over in a flash, the Red Wings ran circles around the Flyers, Eric Lindros and the Legion of Doom looked lost, and the Wings picked apart the Flyers defense and goaltending duo of Ron Hextall and Garth Snow. I was shocked, but I learned a lot that week and in the following years about the NHL and have been a fan ever since.

I'm curious to see what members here thought about that Flyers team and that Finals series. Thank you very much for reading this!

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

^^^ Welcome to HOH, and Im sure on behalf of everyone, thanks for your kind words. Lots of serious Professor-Students of the History of Hockey here on this Board, absolutely. Learn new things everyday really.... As for the Flyers 96/97 season, I'll let others weigh in on that one, as Im more conversant with the clubs early history circa 67/68 & through the 70's.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The Flyers were generally favored to win the finals, though they were not heavy favorites. By that point, the Red Wings had acquired quite the reputation as a team that played more of a perimeter game and that tended to fold in the playoffs against more physical opponents (as they did in 1994, 1995, and 1996).

As a teenage Devils' fan, the idea of Detroit getting squashed by either Messier's Rangers or Lindros' Flyers terrified me.

Everyone expected Vladimir Konstantinov vs Eric Lindros to be the key matchup and Scottie Bowman threw everyone for a loop by matching up a guy with a reputation as a softish offensive defenseman against Lindros. The 1997 finals was really the coming out party for Nicklas Lidstrom as an elite defensive defenseman - Red Wings fans say he was steadily improving for years, and I'm sure he was or else Bowman never would have trusted him so much. But the 1997 finals are when Lidstrom became a household name, to hockey fans at least.

 

[blogofmike]

Going by memory, so I may be off on a few points.

They were built on the Legion of Doom, which was a very impressive line. Lindros and Leclair were borderline HHOFers with power and hands. You'd think they were built for that era, but Lindros was done in by injury. Brind'Amour was a great #2 C (better than Gratton), Desjardins was just a half-step below the dominant defenders of the era, and they had a bunch of other good veterans you forget ever played there (Coffey, Hawerchuk).

I most remember the 1997 Rangers series where the banged up old Rangers couldn't keep up. They won Game 2 (I think) with Gretzky and Messier on the top line and Gretzky's last playoff hat trick. I think Gretzky banked one in of Karl Dykhuis and Messier scored too on a 2-on-1 with Gretzky where he didn't pass and just shot unexpectedly.

But it didn't last. Lindros probably had his biggest playoff moment by scoring a last minute GWG to prevent overtime and kill what I believe was a Rangers comeback. They made Richter look shaky and the Rangers defense had lots of trouble with the sheer power (mostly of the top 2 lines). I recall Lindros mushing Messier face into the glass and thinking that was a microcosm of the matchup, which was impressive since that was the last good year for Mess (one year before he was a Hart runner-up).

The Finals was one of the great cases for Lidstrom being one of the top d-men ever. He couldn't outmuscle Lindros, but (obviously he had a good team with him too) he definitely outplayed him.

Their top forwards (Lindros, LeClair, Brind'Amour) were great, but they didn't have the forward depth to match up well with the Western teams of that era. There was too steep a dropoff from the top line to the rest of the squad (I think of Pat Falloon and Trent Klatt, but I'm not sure they got significant minutes. It felt like they got more than they should have though.)

 

[Big Phil]

I don't think it was rare, and maybe not even in the minority, to have the Flyers win the series. For me, I just personally thought the semis between Colorado and Detroit was going to be the winner regardless. Basically since Bernie Parent the Flyers have had shaky goaltending which continues to this day. That was a big factor for me. The Avs had won in 1996 and had the horses and talent to do it again. Detroit really impressed me with that big bloodbath game against the Avs in March 1997 and to be honest I immediately saw a different team with them after that happened. I just think both teams were a bit too deep for the Flyers who were relying on Lindros a little too much.

I guess for me Lindros was never one of those "he's going to carry us" type of guys I ever felt confidence with. You always seemed to think he'd blow it somewhere along the way as I was very nervous with him in the 1996 World Cup and 1998 Olympics. So even though he was playing like a champ the first three rounds of 1997 I just felt the Red Wings depth and the Flyers goaltending would be the difference.

 

[ozzie]

Lets call a spade a spade. Lidstrom and Konstantinov shut down not only Lindros but most of the Flyers offensively. Their time had come and the Flyers had no answers for the sublime defensive display that ensued. Flyers and their Coaches couldn't adjust and never tried to, they just thought Brute force would win.

Suddenly they were out of the series and the positioning and stick work of Lidstrom, reigned supreme, he never looked back.

In 1996 the Wings lost to a powerhouse Avalanche team, there was no shortage of hostilities and physical play, that was the real Cup final to me.

In 1995 the Wings were in the exact same position as the Flyers, being the favoured team and ultimately having no answers for what happened. Detroit thought their skill would win out, Flyers just thought their size would win out.

Both were beaten by amazing defence, of different varieties.

 

[Big Phil]

That 1997 team, I mean if you look at that roster, the depth to it and all it is really hard to believe they took until then to finally win. But at the time, there was such a love-in with Lindros in the media that there were several people who had them favoured. Funny to look back at it now because Detroit just had so many weapons.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Lets call a spade a spade. Lidstrom and Konstantinov shut down not only Lindros but most of the Flyers offensively. Their time had come and the Flyers had no answers for the sublime defensive display that ensued. Flyers and their Coaches couldn't adjust and never tried to, they just thought Brute force would win.

Suddenly they were out of the series and the positioning and stick work of Lidstrom, reigned supreme, he never looked back.

In 1996 the Wings lost to a powerhouse Avalanche team, there was no shortage of hostilities and physical play, that was the real Cup final to me.

In 1995 the Wings were in the exact same position as the Flyers, being the favoured team and ultimately having no answers for what happened. Detroit thought their skill would win out, Flyers just thought their size would win out.

Both were beaten by amazing defence, of different varieties.

From memory (supported somewhat by stats), Brind'amour played about as well as usual, but the Flyers were very reliant on their top line, so with that shut down, they were done.

 

[blogofmike]

Apparently Larry Murphy got a lot of credit for Game 1


And we should keep in mind that Detroit got a lot more goaltending help from Vernon than Philly got from Hextall/Snow.

 

[Bill McCreary]

Wretched goaltending cost them the first two games at home where they dominated long stretches of each game. Then, they actually scored the first goal in Game 3 until dumb turnovers and bad goaltending turned the game into a run away for Detroit. Lindros especially was taken off his game by Konstantinov.

 

[Hasbro]

Bad Goaltending, lack of a transition game and wildly overrating Power Forwards.

 

[BobRouse]

Personally I thought the Flyers were going to smoke them at that point. The Legion of Doom line was the best cycling possession line I'd ever seen and no one could match up against Lindros or Leclair. Zubrus looked to be a fine rookie ..big and fast. Renberg was good too altho all I remember was him being injured alot during those years.

The Red Wings did have a rep as a softer choking team. I believe Lidstrom/Murphy were the pairing who completely shut down the Legion of Doom in fine nerd style using geometry and tactics. I don't think the Flyers could handle the Red Wings trap and it seemed like they didn't even expect it.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Wretched goaltending cost them the first two games at home where they dominated long stretches of each game. Then, they actually scored the first goal in Game 3 until dumb turnovers and bad goaltending turned the game into a run away for Detroit. Lindros especially was taken off his game by Konstantinov.

Lindros quite often destroyed Konstantinov when the two played against each other. In fact it was the reason many thought the Flyers were the favorite going into the series.

Detroit wisely shifted away from that plan and went with the Lidstrom/Murphy combo. The only way to stop Lindros, was to have the puck

There was nobody that could matchup against Lindros physically

 

[John Flyers Fan]

On a side note, the LoD was essentially done at that point. Renberg's injuries had greatly diminished his play by this point in his career. The explosive skating stride that defensemen feared was gone, and he was just an average skater at best.

If the Flyers beat the Devils in 1995, when they lost in 6 games, I believe they go on to win the Finals against Detroit. That's when the LoD was at it's absolute peak, and the Wings, weren't nearly as good as they were in 1997.

 

[Ivan13]

I don't think it was rare, and maybe not even in the minority, to have the Flyers win the series. For me, I just personally thought the semis between Colorado and Detroit was going to be the winner regardless. Basically since Bernie Parent the Flyers have had shaky goaltending which continues to this day. That was a big factor for me. The Avs had won in 1996 and had the horses and talent to do it again. Detroit really impressed me with that big bloodbath game against the Avs in March 1997 and to be honest I immediately saw a different team with them after that happened. I just think both teams were a bit too deep for the Flyers who were relying on Lindros a little too much.

I guess for me Lindros was never one of those "he's going to carry us" type of guys I ever felt confidence with. You always seemed to think he'd blow it somewhere along the way as I was very nervous with him in the 1996 World Cup and 1998 Olympics. So even though he was playing like a champ the first three rounds of 1997 I just felt the Red Wings depth and the Flyers goaltending would be the difference.

I always wonder what would've happen to the Red Wings if Claude didn't hit Draper, to me that was the rallying point for them and that's what pushed them to the next level, it sort of gave them a goal and it woken up a sleeping giant so to speak.

 

[double5son10]

I always wonder what would've happen to the Red Wings if Claude didn't hit Draper, to me that was the rallying point for them and that's what pushed them to the next level, it sort of gave them a goal and it woken up a sleeping giant so to speak.

And I always wonder what would of happened if Crawford hadn't forced Lacroix to trade Simon. Hard to imagine McCarty cold-cocking Lemieux and Shanahan bouncing Rene Corbet's head on the ice w/out Chief tearing some Detroit players head off. Brent Severyn was a poor replacement as the Avs enforcer.

As to the OP, I wasn't surprised at all by the result. Hextall was no longer an elite goaltender and Garth Snow never was. Murray's handling of them both during that series was also atrocious. And as others have said the Flyers depth wasn't very good. Weak on the wings and Hawerchuk was done as an offensive threat. Basically just the LoD and Brind'Amour up front to drive their offense.

 

[Randy Marsh]

That was the year the Flyers sued WIP and got Craig Carton fired for making allegations that Lindros was scratched from a game because he was hung over.

That was an exciting team. Everybody talks about the Legion of Doom, but they had the 'Dan Line' as their muscle, along with Petit, who could also fight. They had 2 brawls with the Sabres that year, with Garth Snow fighting Hasek in the regular season and Shields in the postseason.

They also had the 'Minnesota line' of Podein-Otto-Klatt that made a good 3rd line.

As much as I liked that team, they had a very easy road to the Finals that season. So much that even the goalie controversy between Hextall and Snow didn't hurt them. They matched up very well with the Penguins, who were a 1-line team with bad defense and goaltending. The Sabres had zero offensive firepower that year, and they were missing Hasek for the series, so it should come as no surprise that the Flyers took that series in 5. Lindros was great the first 2 rounds, but he really turned it up against the NYR. That may be the most dominant I have ever seen a Flyer play in a series, and I really thought they would beat Detroit afterwards.

After the 1997 season (Led by Pre-concussion but still injury-prone 88) I really thought Lindros was going to be a force in the postseason for years to come. Little did I know that he would play 7 more playoff games in a Flyer uniform, 5 of which were in a 5-game loss to the Sabres that Spring.

 

[Mayor Bee]

I remember quite a few pundits picking Philadelphia, but I have to wonder how much of that was due to Detroit's inability to break through to that point.

It would be like if San Jose made the SCF at any point in the last three years; they'd have been the underdog simply because of their reputation for coming up small when they needed to step up.

 

[Randy Marsh]

Another thing I should add...the biggest reason the Flyers reached the Final that year was because the Rangers pulled a HUGE upset on the Devils in the 2nd round. That was the one team in the East that scared Flyer fans.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Apparently Larry Murphy got a lot of credit for Game 1

Larry Murphy got a lot of credit for the entire series at the time (he was +10 in four games!), but it seems like people prefer the narrative being that Nicklas Lidstrom was the show-stealer.

 

[danincanada]

Larry Murphy got a lot of credit for the entire series at the time (he was +10 in four games!), but it seems like people prefer the narrative being that Nicklas Lidstrom was the show-stealer.

The narrative exists because of the matchup against Lindros. Bowman seemed pretty comfortable with most of his forward lines but Lidstrom was the constant against Lindros. It was usually Lidstrom/Murphy or Lidstrom/Konstantinov but it seemed that Bowman did his best to have Lidstrom on the ice no matter what.

As far as Philly went, they looked like a deer in the headlights, much like the Wings did in the '95 finals. Plus their goaltending was terrible. It's unfortunate for them that the core they had couldn't get back to the finals again with better goaltending because they'd likely be better prepared. It's one of those things I expected to happen but it never did.

 

[BraveCanadian]

The Flyers didn't have the depth, coaching, or goaltending to beat Detroit that year.. and yes, Lidstrom gets a lot of credit but it was really a teamwide effort to shut down the LOD because if you were able to contain them then Philly loses... simple as that.

Lots of teams need to lose before they learn how to win but unfortunately for the Flyers, Lindros' injury problems, Renbergs problems and generally poor management meant that they never got another shot.

 

[Hobnobs]

And I always wonder what would of happened if Crawford hadn't forced Lacroix to trade Simon. Hard to imagine McCarty cold-cocking Lemieux and Shanahan bouncing Rene Corbet's head on the ice w/out Chief tearing some Detroit players head off. Brent Severyn was a poor replacement as the Avs enforcer.

As to the OP, I wasn't surprised at all by the result. Hextall was no longer an elite goaltender and Garth Snow never was. Murray's handling of them both during that series was also atrocious. And as others have said the Flyers depth wasn't very good. Weak on the wings and Hawerchuk was done as an offensive threat. Basically just the LoD and Brind'Amour up front to drive their offense.

Detroit proved they could handle teams with better enforcers than Simon. Why would he make a difference?

 

[double5son10]

Detroit proved they could handle teams with better enforcers than Simon. Why would he make a difference?

Having a fighter as good, and as crazy, as Simon, is a nice weapon to have in your arsenal when the other team wants to exact "revenge", dontcha think? There was no fighter left on that Avs team after the loss of Simon (and Rychel) that was a better fighter than either McCarty or Shanahan . Yes the RWs had beaten teams w/ better enforcers, but a team that was essentially their equal in every way but toughness? Nope. That's a big hole in the Avs lineup in 97. Foote and Deadmarsh were tough players, but good fighters? OK at best and neither was feared like Simon. And it's what allowed the Red Wings to manhandle the Avs both in the brawl game and to a lesser extent the Conference Finals. That brawl game probably still happens, but is it considered as decisive if Simon grabs and mauls one of the RWs non-fighters like McCarty and Shanahan did w/ the Avs? (I'd also add if the refs had done their jobs and tossed McCarty from the game, as should have happened. No way he should have been there to score the game winner.)

 

[Thenameless]

I kind of thought the Av's were going to repeat, so when they bowed out, I wasn't so sure. Probably thought the physical Flyers would be too much for Detroit. Guess I was wrong.